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Climate Change, 'Greenhouse' effects, Environment, etc part III
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Nick Send message Joined: 11 Oct 11 Posts: 4344 Credit: 3,313,107 RAC: 0 |
What the hell is a FUD? How about PFUD....Polished Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt Hey, James; that'll put a gloss on it..ha-ha. The Kite Fliers -------------------- Kite fliers: An imaginary club of solo members, those who don't yet belong to a formal team so "fly their own kites" - as the saying goes. |
ML1 Send message Joined: 25 Nov 01 Posts: 20147 Credit: 7,508,002 RAC: 20 |
... And so, just as in a Greek Tragedy, we 'watch the river flood': Arctic sea ice reaches record low The Arctic has lost more sea ice this year than at any time since satellite records began in 1979, Nasa says. Scientists involved in the calculations say it is part of a fundamental change. What is more, sea ice normally reaches its low point in September so it is thought likely that this year's melt will continue... ...this year's ice retreat was caused by previous warm years reducing the amount of perennial ice - which is more resistant to melting. It's created a self-reinforcing trend. ... ... "A number of scientists who have actually been working with sea ice measurement had predicted some years ago that the retreat would accelerate and that the summer Arctic would become ice-free by 2015 or 2016. "I was one of those scientists - and of course bore my share of ridicule for daring to make such an alarmist prediction." But Prof Wadhams said the prediction was now coming true, and the ice had become so thin that it would inevitably disappear. ... All as predicted with painful accuracy. We are long long overdue to remove all subsidies to the continued fossil fuels pollution. We are also long overdue to counter the crass fug of the fossil fuels Marketing FUD. This is our only one world, Martin See new freedom: Mageia Linux Take a look for yourself: Linux Format The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3) |
ML1 Send message Joined: 25 Nov 01 Posts: 20147 Credit: 7,508,002 RAC: 20 |
And for those fond of fun fiction, here's a very topical adventure story that includes a small glimpse of some of the politics involved, woven around action on the ground and on the seas: Clive Cussler and Dirk Cussler Arctic Drift: The Dirk Pitt Adventures (Amazon) Note the TWO authors... And both intriguingly have their namesake parts in the fictional story... The book starts with a seemingly disjoint series of episodes from the 1850's nautical explorations for the fabled Northwest Passage through to today. Then a modern day far-flung treasure hunt ensues to race to piece together a surprising jigsaw... A very good mix of adventure and intrigue, that includes plausible current events, that together make for compulsive reading. There's not as much of the "action adventure" as for a purely "Clive Cussler" book (or he's getting older), which adds a new better grounding for the lead characters... Believable?... All on our only world, Martin See new freedom: Mageia Linux Take a look for yourself: Linux Format The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3) |
ML1 Send message Joined: 25 Nov 01 Posts: 20147 Credit: 7,508,002 RAC: 20 |
Considering the ecology throughout the oceans and onto land: 'Unprecedented threat' for UK trees from pests ... "If you have got a changing environment, you cannot expect the communities and assemblages of species of past environments to survive." That sounds like the next Clive Cussler / Dirk Cussler fiction novel. Except. That is very real and happening now on our only planet. What does it matter that Human industrial pollution is directly responsible for 100% or 'perhaps' just 70% of those effects? We still control the majority effect that can turn the disaster around. Industrial politics be damned? All change? At what cost and to who? Who pays?... All on our only planet, Martin See new freedom: Mageia Linux Take a look for yourself: Linux Format The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3) |
ML1 Send message Joined: 25 Nov 01 Posts: 20147 Credit: 7,508,002 RAC: 20 |
There's lots in the news at the moment about our destruction of our climate and some ever more visible impacts in consequence... This is one simple article where there is a particularly apt comment: UK ice boffin: 'Arctic melt equivalent to 20 years of CO2 Older, more stable ice melting as well A prominent British Arctic scientist and researcher says that the continued and accelerated melting of the polar sea-ice cap is not only a result of climate change, but is also a massive contributor to it. To explain in an overly simplistic nutshell, sea ice is reflective, bouncing solar energy back into space. When it melts, the darker open sea absorbs more of that energy, increasing ocean temperatures. How much more? According to Professor Peter Wadhams of the University of Cambridge's Polar Ocean Physics Group, that increased absorption has an effect that's "the equivalent of about 20 years of additional CO2 being added by man." ... Climate-change sceptics It still baffles me how anyone with a brain could believe something like 97% of scientists are engaged in a mega-conspiracy to defraud the public to gain research grants, and refuse to even CONSIDER the possibility that the people who make Billions selling oil and gas could be the ones lying to try to protect their profits. Maybe that's not the case, maybe all the climate-change sceptics are just people paid to sow doubt...but it does seem that there's plenty of people around utterly convinced that oil barons are decent, honest people, and it's the climate scientists who are the greedy, money-grabbing liars. Very weird. Looks like we've tripped one of what various 'Denialist Skeptics' claim are non-existent positive feedback tipping points. We're not doomed yet, but this makes things a LOT more expensive... All in our only one (corrupt?) world, Martin See new freedom: Mageia Linux Take a look for yourself: Linux Format The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3) |
OzzFan Send message Joined: 9 Apr 02 Posts: 15691 Credit: 84,761,841 RAC: 28 |
I thought this might be of interest to the topic of Climate change and our effect on it as a human race: It's all a giant conspiracy! (To some readers of climate blogs) Reposted without permission from ArsTechnica.com. |
W-K 666 Send message Joined: 18 May 99 Posts: 19012 Credit: 40,757,560 RAC: 67 |
Could the lack of concern about climate change in the US be a reflection of the amount of news coverage. Even as evidence for climate change mounts and the consequences of the phenomenon become more severe, the amount of climate coverage on broadcast networks has plummeted. According to a stunning analysis by Media Matters, the Sunday morning current affairs shows averaged about one hour each on climate change in 2009, compared to averaging 21 minutes apiece in 2010 and only 9 minutes per program in 2011. In 2011, Fox News Sunday covered climate change the most (just under an hour), "but much of the coverage promoted the 'Climategate' controversy and downplayed the threat of climate change," reports Media Matters. From America's miasma of misinformation on climate change |
KWSN - MajorKong Send message Joined: 5 Jan 00 Posts: 2892 Credit: 1,499,890 RAC: 0 |
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2217286/Global-warming-stopped-16-years-ago-reveals-Met-Office-report-quietly-released--chart-prove-it.html Hmm... https://youtu.be/iY57ErBkFFE #Texit Don't blame me, I voted for Johnson(L) in 2016. Truth is dangerous... especially when it challenges those in power. |
betreger Send message Joined: 29 Jun 99 Posts: 11360 Credit: 29,581,041 RAC: 66 |
Sandy the storm is connecting the dots for lots of people. |
Gary Charpentier Send message Joined: 25 Dec 00 Posts: 30608 Credit: 53,134,872 RAC: 32 |
Sandy the storm is connecting the dots for lots of people. The people say 1 thing and the science another ... Sandy soaked the East Coast -- but is global warming to blame? It reminds me of saying that we must have angered the rain god and we need to sacrifice virgins to him! |
Uli Send message Joined: 6 Feb 00 Posts: 10923 Credit: 5,996,015 RAC: 1 |
Dang it where is my Carpet cleaner. Pluto will always be a planet to me. Seti Ambassador Not to late to order an Anni Shirt |
ML1 Send message Joined: 25 Nov 01 Posts: 20147 Credit: 7,508,002 RAC: 20 |
Sandy the storm is connecting the dots for lots of people. The science remains consistent. Shame the sponsored media FUD and sensationalism continues. Sandy soaked the East Coast -- but is global warming to blame? Turn up the gas and indeed your pan of water boils more vigorously and generates more steam more quickly. You then get more condensation more quickly on your kitchen ceiling that then rains down upon you... More violent storms and more violent hurricanes (and a greater proportion of storms becoming hurricanes) have long been predicted as one of the consequences of Global Warming/Heating. You might not necessarily get more of them, but the one's you do get have a greater tendency of being ever more violent. Even just a small rise in average temperatures mean you get much more evaporation and 'more energy' let loose in the atmosphere and weather systems. Unfortunately, the story remains the same. All on our only planet, Martin See new freedom: Mageia Linux Take a look for yourself: Linux Format The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3) |
Gary Charpentier Send message Joined: 25 Dec 00 Posts: 30608 Credit: 53,134,872 RAC: 32 |
At least we know you believe yourself to be spreading FUD. Say the media story on Sandy is FUD, deny a NOAA scientist and spread the same FUD yourself. Good job Martin. Good Job! |
John Clark Send message Joined: 29 Sep 99 Posts: 16515 Credit: 4,418,829 RAC: 0 |
To an extent I can understand that, as the turbines (due to their size) are a massive blot despoiling the landscape. But, sticking with wind power, then the answer is off shore. Also, turbine construction, compared to the cost per KW output of gas and coal, is very expensive and would not happen but for the UK subsidy on our power bills towards the larger turbine farms. I think a number of other options should be driven as hard as wind as a renewable - 1. Tidal, with 3 options to choose. First: Wave power, after all the UK has the best open shores (West coast in particular) in the world; Second:Tidal power from the rise and fall of the tide. The UK has the second highest tidal rise and fall after Newfoundland, and capturing this would provide serious capacity through low speed reversible turbines; finally, Third:Capturing the power from tidal races a number of which exist in the Irish Sea. This would be via an underwater version of the larger land/off shore wind turbines. 2. Tidal from the rise and fall (via hydro power) by damming across estuaries, like the Wales to Devon part where the Severn Bore runs. Finally, to encourage micro power generation from individual homes, which is currently dominated by solar voltaic. These installations, despite the large drop in panel costs, are still expensive @ £12,000 to £14,000 for a 4KW installation. Why not utilise innovative, and much more efficient micro wind generation, like Power Collective's Ridge Blade capping tile roof mounted wind system (Power Collective and Ridge Blade). This system is has more than 3 times the efficiency of the large wind turbines and costs between £8,000 to £10,000 for a 4KW install. It produces usable power for between 60 and 70 days per 100 days available, unlike the industrial wind turbines that produce usable power for between 25 and 30 days per 100 days available. Ridge Blade uses the natural aerofoil action of a pitched roof. It's good to be back amongst friends and colleagues |
Terror Australis Send message Joined: 14 Feb 04 Posts: 1817 Credit: 262,693,308 RAC: 44 |
It reminds me of saying that we must have angered the rain god and we need to sacrifice virgins to him! We're stuffed. Where are you going to find a virgin these days ? On a more serious note and with all due sympathy to those effected by "Sandy". If you build a city on a flood plain, you have to expect that YOU might be the one to be be effected by by the one in 1,000 year flood, if you build a home in a known bush fire area, you should be aware that YOU might be the one effected by the one in 100 year firestorm. If you live in a cyclone/hurricane prone area, YOU might be the one to be effected by a Yasi, Katrina, Tracy or Sandy. If the city you live in is located near a major fault, one day YOU might find your house shaken to rubble by an earthquake. If you live in an area that is on the fringes of a natural disaster prone area, one day a "Big One" will cross into your area. People memories are short, or they take a gamble that the disaster will not occur while they live in an area where there is a known risk. e.g. In the outer western suburbs of Sydney, Australia, if there is a flood of the same magnitude that occurred in 1955, over 100,000 people will have to be evacuated because the water will be over the roof of their house. In Brisbane (also in Oz), people paid exorbitant amounts of money for land "with a river frontage" either ignoring, or in ignorance of, the fact that in 1974 that patch of land was under 25 feet of water and in 2011 they paid the price. People still buy houses located on the San Andreas fault. They just hope "The Big One" will not occur until they have moved on. Just because you live in a big city doesn't mean you are immune to natural disasters. It's one of the immutable laws of nature. If there is a possibility of something happening, one day it will happen. T.A. |
kittyman Send message Joined: 9 Jul 00 Posts: 51468 Credit: 1,018,363,574 RAC: 1,004 |
Keep the windmills and solar panels going up. Tidal and wave energy can also be harnessed. We are at a point where energy capture is beyond everything else. This will continue until we consume everything on this planet we can burn. One day soon, the tipping point will come.\\ And on that day, there WILL be no tomorrow. It is coming soon.........nothing to do with the tree huggers or harbringers of global warming. Just the usual climatic cycles that we, as casual bytanders have no say in. He said it before, and he was correct. Carlin........before he passed, rendered his opinion on the planet.\ The planet is fine, it's it's inhabitants that are fukayed. Save the WHAT? Well, kitties, we happen to risk being here for the next millenium or two. "Freedom is just Chaos, with better lighting." Alan Dean Foster |
Es99 Send message Joined: 23 Aug 05 Posts: 10874 Credit: 350,402 RAC: 0 |
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2217286/Global-warming-stopped-16-years-ago-reveals-Met-Office-report-quietly-released--chart-prove-it.html Daily mail doesn't understand long term trends. 16 years is not a sufficiently long data sample. Even this rag of a so called Newspaper ends it's article with: 'So let’s be clear. Yes: global warming is real, and some of it at least has been caused by the CO2 emitted by fossil fuels. But the evidence is beginning to suggest that it may be happening much slower than the catastrophists have claimed" I've always understood to the science to be agreed that climate change is real, happening and caused my humans. The only debate that there has been on on the science is whether it's going to be really bad, or really F**king bad. So when people say "climate science is not settled yet" they are correct because we still don't know how bad it's going to be and quickly it's going to happen. This is still not enough data to say which one it's going to be. Reality Internet Personality |
Terror Australis Send message Joined: 14 Feb 04 Posts: 1817 Credit: 262,693,308 RAC: 44 |
I've always understood to the science to be agreed that climate change is real, happening and caused my humans. The only debate that there has been on on the science is whether it's going to be really bad, or really F**king bad. So when people say "climate science is not settled yet" they are correct because we still don't know how bad it's going to be and quickly it's going to happen. This is still not enough data to say which one it's going to be. The problem is Es that the "warmists" shot themselves in the foot early on by making such dire, and obviously inaccurate (but "headline grabbing") predictions as "Sea levels will rise by by 100 Metres" and "40% of the world's population will be dead by 2012" (I've posted links to these stories in previous versions of this thread) and obviously these predictions have not come true. Add to this their fetish for wind and solar power, which are probably the most inefficient ways to generate bulk "Green Power" (the average output of a wind turbine or solar farm is around 35% of its rated capacity). Along with the predicted extinction of species that have been around for millions of years, conveniently ignoring that said species have survived both hotter and colder climate conditions in the past and therefore must have some method of coping. It all became just too much for the average Joe. On one hand it overloaded their BS filters and secondly predictions such as "If the world went to zero emissions tomorrow it would take hundreds of years for the CO2 levels to drop back to "normal" (whatever that is) just introduced a feeling of "why bother, we're stuffed anyway". Of course climate is changing, it is a dynamic system, it has never been static, temperatures, rainfall patterns and sea levels have always varied. Remember, even in historical times crops were being grown in what is now the Sahara desert and it was once possible to walk from England to France. I don't see that it's really such a "big deal" and I don't think that anything humanity can do will have an effect anyway, T.A. |
Gary Charpentier Send message Joined: 25 Dec 00 Posts: 30608 Credit: 53,134,872 RAC: 32 |
+1 |
Gary Charpentier Send message Joined: 25 Dec 00 Posts: 30608 Credit: 53,134,872 RAC: 32 |
I've always understood to the science to be agreed that climate change is real, happening and caused my humans. You should say "may be caused in part by humans" to be completely accurate. The only debate that there has been on on the science is whether it's going to be really bad, or really F**king bad. So when people say "climate science is not settled yet" they are correct because we still don't know how bad it's going to be and quickly it's going to happen. This is still not enough data to say which one it's going to be. Quite. Not enough data. And then there is the time scale. 16 years too short. Is 1000 years a better scale? This is part of the FUD being spread by the FUDists. Whatever gets them press at the moment. They are worse than the race for the president. Total attention whores! |
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