Climate Change, 'Greenhouse' effects, Environment, etc part III


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Message 1249908 - Posted: 22 Jun 2012, 11:32:41 UTC - in response to Message 1217683.
Last modified: 22 Jun 2012, 11:36:09 UTC

... ominously large.

An apt description for Mankind's industrial activities?...



Avaaz - 48 Hours left: Save Rio, Save the Planet

Over a million people have called on world leaders to end fossil fuel subsidies at the Rio Earth Summit -- a no-brainer policy that could take one trillion tax dollars from Big Oil and reinvest it in green energy. But they’ve failed to deliver


One trillion dollars for Big Oil looks to buy a lot of corruption... So we melt all the ice, burn the planet to hell, destroy our present benign weather systems, and...

Or... Are there enough interested people to play the politics to thwart the Big Oil corruption?

Hopefully, Avaaz can make enough positive noise to overcome at least some of that corruption.


This is our only planet,
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That's from Arctic Ocean Ice Volume is Decreasing

A longer term view is given on: Arctic sea ice extent over 1,450 years


And for the Denialists "so what?", and for everyone, a must-see article and video: 2011 Arctic Minimum



So what's up with that?


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Message 1249968 - Posted: 22 Jun 2012, 14:57:06 UTC

Arctic ice melting should make the Northwest passage viable and save a lot of travel time. Also massive oil deposits can now be tapped more easily. Canada and others are already staking claims.

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Message 1250328 - Posted: 23 Jun 2012, 7:46:10 UTC
Last modified: 23 Jun 2012, 7:46:46 UTC

It tell you one thing, It felt quite nippy in London last night. Has global
warming finally ended for it felt like it. Perhaps global cooling has started
now, well in the UK anyway.
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Message 1250405 - Posted: 23 Jun 2012, 13:20:07 UTC - in response to Message 1250328.

It tell you one thing, It felt quite nippy in London last night. Has global
warming finally ended for it felt like it. Perhaps global cooling has started
now, well in the UK anyway.


With all the ice turning into a giant slurpee running down around you...
from what WAS the polar ice cap.. it is little wonder you might get chilled for a bit during the summers.

And with every tiny weather event people say it is the climate.. only thing is you need to take averages of thousands upon thousands of "weather" to make the climate, and from there you can draw patterns, such as average global temperature.

yep.. more and more killer tornados can pack hail storms. More and more hurricanes can give folk a break from the burning summer sun. But on the average.. nothing has changed for the better. Including attitudes.
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Message 1251035 - Posted: 24 Jun 2012, 20:46:18 UTC - in response to Message 1249968.
Last modified: 24 Jun 2012, 20:57:48 UTC

Arctic ice melting should make the Northwest passage viable and save a lot of travel time. Also massive oil deposits can now be tapped more easily. Canada and others are already staking claims.

'Ere, were you one of the corrupt lobbyists redacting most of the Rio+20 commitments to safeguard our planet?...


Rio+20: Sir Paul backs Greenpeace Arctic campaign

Greenpeace is launching a campaign to have the Arctic region declared a sanctuary by the United Nations.

The group aims for a million signatures on a petition calling for an end to oil exploration and unsustainable fishing, which will be planted on the sea bed.

Celebrities such as Sir Paul McCartney, actor Robert Redford and the boy band One Direction are among the backers.

The move comes as a response to what the environment group regards as the "epic failure" of the Rio+20 summit.

'War footing'

The summit aimed to put the global economy on a more sustainable footing - enhancing economic wealth, especially for the poorest on earth, while protecting the environment.

But environment groups are bitterly disappointed that governments have chosen not to press forward on issues such as ending fossil fuel subsidies...

... "It seems madness that we are willing to go to the ends of the earth to find the last drops of oil when our best scientific minds are telling us we need to get off fossil fuels to give our children a future," said Sir Paul.

"At some time, in some place, we need to take a stand. I believe that time is now and that place is the Arctic." ...




Burn and be damned? The Bush era "Global Warming" euphemism should be burnt to instead be the much better descriptive "Global Heating". It's certainly getting hot ever faster... And all for so very few to profit.

Our vast industrial spewing of fossil CO2 pollution continues unabated, and continues to increase yet further unabated. Ignoring the consequences and alternatives continues to be madness. All 'fair' in the name of corrupt industrial profits?

I wonder how many people the tobacco industry has killed despite their continuing claims and deception to the contrary? And how the similar story is going to unfold for the fossil fuels industry?...


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Message 1251036 - Posted: 24 Jun 2012, 20:50:05 UTC - in response to Message 1250328.
Last modified: 24 Jun 2012, 20:51:42 UTC

It tell you one thing, It felt quite nippy in London last night. Has global
warming finally ended for it felt like it. Perhaps global cooling has started
now, well in the UK anyway.

I'm sure even you wouldn't notice the "Global Warming" if ALL that was at issue was just a small change in temperature. A few degrees warmer for our climate would be rather 'nice', if that was all that all this is about.

Meanwhile, those few degrees of temperature are murderous for those nearer the equator and for those in the central areas of large land masses such as Australia.

More significantly, the entire world is rapidly and radically changed as the weather is radically changed with the radical change in climate that just a degree or two can force. Along the way to whatever new 'stability', along the way of that change you can expect some dramatic and murderous extremes...


So please don't just glibly speak of mere temperatures. That is an insult to everyone's intelligence.

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Message 1251136 - Posted: 25 Jun 2012, 3:38:52 UTC

http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/features/2012/06/201261574653597584.html

Current projections show that by 2025, 1.8bn people will be living in countries or regions with absolute water scarcity, and two-thirds of the total global population could be living under water-stressed conditions.

Many scientists blame the worsening water crisis on global warming, causing many experts to push for an economy not based on fossil fuels.

That is just 13 years away people. So is it nuclear winter die of thirst? It is your choice people.

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Message 1251184 - Posted: 25 Jun 2012, 6:26:43 UTC - in response to Message 1251036.

So please don't just glibly speak of mere temperatures. That is an insult to everyone's intelligence.


Martin, what sort of glib remark above is this supposed to be. It certainly does
not cut the mustard with me and certainly does not on it's own make your case
for man made global warming any more real. To this end this will be one thread
I will cease to make anymore contributions to.



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Message 1254726 - Posted: 2 Jul 2012, 21:30:33 UTC - in response to Message 1251184.
Last modified: 2 Jul 2012, 21:37:31 UTC

It tell you one thing, It felt quite nippy in London last night. Has global warming finally ended for it felt like it. Perhaps global cooling has started now, well in the UK anyway.

I read that to mean that you would like your local weather to be warmer. Equally glib, your comment can also be interpreted to suggest mistakenly that daily weather (short term daily effects modulated by climate) is somehow climate (long term effects).

Both interpretations suggest a glib disregard.

Meanwhile, in the news just now for here (in the UK) and for the USA:


Wettest June on record Met Office figures show

Last month was the UK's wettest June since records began in 1910, provisional Met Office figures show.

It comes after this year also saw the rainiest April on record, while the period from April to June was also the wettest recorded for the UK.

June was also the second dullest on record...



US storm-hit millions swelter in heatwave

At least two million people remain without power in the eastern US following storms that have been blamed for 22 deaths since Friday.

Amid an ongoing heatwave, utilities warn it could take several more days to restore electricity to many households.

Maryland, West Virginia, Virginia, Ohio and the District of Columbia declared states of emergency over the weekend.

Power outages persisted on Monday from North Carolina to New Jersey, and as far west as Illinois. ...



Both those are from 'just' a 'small' shift in the jet stream. Might that shift be related to the ever increased melting of the Arctic? Might that melt and increase atmospheric retained energy be related to the vast additional volumes of fossil CO2 generated by the fossil fuels industry?...

Note also that the fossil fuels industry is given tax subsidies and their pollution is ignored!...

What might we do with those subsidies instead invested in non-polluting power and more efficient practices?...

Just ONE example:

Renewables good for 80 per cent of US demand by 2050

NREL spikes ‘can’t do baseload’ myth

One of the greatest objections made against the use of renewable energy for electricity supply, that only coal, gas or nuclear power can sustain a modern economy’s baseload power generation demand, has come under scrutiny in a new report by America’s National Renewable Energy Laboratory.

In fact, the NREL’s Renewable Electricity Futures Study finds, renewable technologies available today – finds that technologies already commercially available today could, if deployed right, supply 80 per cent of America’s needs by 2050, “while meeting electricity demand on an hourly basis in every region of the country”. ...



So please don't just glibly speak of mere temperatures. That is an insult to everyone's intelligence.


Martin, what sort of glib remark above is this supposed to be. It certainly does
not cut the mustard with me and certainly does not on it's own make your case
for man made global warming any more real. To this end this will be one thread
I will cease to make anymore contributions to.


So... What 'mustard' do you cut to prove that other vast forces are at play to show that our industrial additive contribution is somehow blameless?...

How do your sources compare to (for example just one brief Google search!):


Keeling Curve

The Keeling Curve is a graph which plots the ongoing change in concentration of carbon dioxide in Earth's atmosphere since 1958. It is based on continuous measurements taken at the Mauna Loa Observatory in Hawaii under the supervision of Charles David Keeling. Keeling's measurements showed the first significant evidence of rapidly increasing carbon dioxide levels in the atmosphere. Many scientists credit Keeling's graph with first bringing the world's attention to the current increase of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere. ...


Carbon dioxide in Earth's atmosphere

The concentration of carbon dioxide (CO2) in Earth's atmosphere is approximately 392 ppm (parts per million) by volume as of 2011[1] and rose by 2.0 ppm/yr during 2000–2009. This current concentration is substantially higher than the 280 ppm concetration present in preindustrial times, with the increase largely attributed to anthropogenic sources. Carbon dioxide is essential to photosynthesis in plants and other photoautotrophs, and is also a prominent greenhouse gas. Despite its relatively small overall concentration in the atmosphere, CO2 is an important component of Earth's atmosphere because it absorbs and emits infrared radiation at wavelengths of 4.26 µm (asymmetric stretching vibrational mode) and 14.99 µm (bending vibrational mode), thereby playing a role in the greenhouse effect. The present level is higher than at any time during the last 800 thousand years, and likely higher than in the past 20 million years. ...


Atmospheric Carbon Dioxide and Carbon Isotope Records

Compendium of Data on Global Change


Carbon Dioxide Information Analysis Centre

Monthly Atmospheric 13C/12C Isotopic Ratios for 11 SIO Stations

... The 13C isotope is stable and heavier than the normal form of carbon (12C), and plants tend to selectively assimilate the lighter isotopes during the photosynthetic process. This results in the following features of the 13C/12C ratio in the atmosphere: (1) a seasonal cycle occurs with the heavier isotope at relatively high concentrations during the summer, as plants selectively remove the lighter isotope from the atmosphere, and (2) a general decrease with time, as more fossil carbon (which originally was plant material, and consequently biased toward the lighter isotope) is injected into the atmosphere from the combustion of fossil fuels. Additionally, about 95% of fossil-fuel carbon emissions are from the Northern Hemisphere, and there is a 6-12 month time lag before this material is transported by the atmosphere to the various stations in the Southern Hemisphere. The seasonal cycle reverses and its amplitude decreases in the Southern Hemisphere, where the seasons are opposite those in the Northern Hemisphere and there is much less land area to support a terrestrial biosphere.



Carbon Dioxide in Air

Carbon dioxide is an important greenhouse gas, because after water vapor it is the most abundant in our atmosphere. Its global average is currently over 370 ppm and is increasing by an average rate of 1.25 ppm per year, due to the burning of fossil fuels (coal, oil and natural gas). We look at the stable isotopes to help decipher the sources and sinks of atmospheric CO2.

The two isotopes of carbon dioxide tell us two different stories of the carbon dioxide in the same parcel of air. The C13 of carbon dioxide can distinguish between biogenic uptake and release of CO2 (plant photosynthesis and respiration) or oceanic uptake and release. The O18 of carbon dioxide is a developing story, ...



Fingerprints of Emissions and the Carbon Cycle: Oxygen-18 in Carbon Dioxide

... eg: When driving downtown on a warm summer day, it seems that all of the car collectors are out in their classic cars from the 1950s, 60s, and 70s. While it's pretty easy to spot a vintage car just by its shape and paint job, these cars actually have a different carbon monoxide δ18O fingerprint, since they won't have a catalytic converter 2. Combustion of carbon monoxide in older versus newer cars is easy to spot using isotopes. ...


Attribution of recent climate change

... Attribution of recent change to anthropogenic forcing is based on the following facts:

The observed change is not consistent with natural variability.
Known natural forcings would, if anything, be negative over this period.
Known anthropogenic forcings are consistent with the observed response.
The pattern of the observed change is consistent with the anthropogenic forcing.

Recent reports from the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) have concluded that:

"Most of the observed increase in globally averaged temperatures since the mid-20th century is very likely due to the observed increase in anthropogenic greenhouse gas concentrations";[2] It is extremely unlikely (<5%) that the global pattern of warming during the past half century can be explained without external forcing (i.e., it is inconsistent with being the result of internal variability), and very unlikely that it is due to known natural external causes alone. The warming occurred in both the ocean and the atmosphere and took place at a time when natural external forcing factors would likely have produced cooling.[3]
"From new estimates of the combined anthropogenic forcing due to greenhouse gases, aerosols, and land surface changes, it is extremely likely that human activities have exerted a substantial net warming influence on climate since 1750."[1]
"It is virtually certain that anthropogenic aerosols produce a net negative radiative forcing (cooling influence) with a greater magnitude in the Northern Hemisphere than in the Southern Hemisphere.[1]

The panel defines "very likely," "extremely likely," and "virtually certain" as indicating probabilities greater than 90%, 95%, and 99%, respectively. ...



How do we know that recent CO2 increases are due to human activities?

Over the last 150 years, carbon dioxide (CO2) concentrations have risen from 280 to nearly 380 parts per million (ppm). The fact that this is due virtually entirely to human activities is so well established that one rarely sees it questioned. Yet it is quite reasonable to ask how we know this.

One way that we know that human activities are responsible for the increased CO2 is simply by looking at historical records of human activities. Since the industrial revolution, we have been burning fossil fuels and clearing and burning forested land at an unprecedented rate, and these processes convert organic carbon into CO2. Careful accounting of the amount of fossil fuel that has been extracted and combusted, and how much land clearing has occurred, shows that we have produced far more CO2 than now remains in the atmosphere. The roughly 500 billion metric tons of carbon we have produced is enough to have raised the atmospheric concentration of CO2 to nearly 500 ppm. The concentrations have not reached that level because the ocean and the terrestrial biosphere have the capacity to absorb some of the CO2 we produce.* However, it is the fact that we produce CO2 faster than the ocean and biosphere can absorb it that explains the observed increase. ...



1996: Why does atmospheric CO2 rise ?

Time and again, some people claim that human activities are only
a minor source of atmospheric carbon dioxide (CO2) which is swamped
by natural sources. Compared to natural sources, our contribution is
small indeed. Yet, the seemingly small human-made or `anthropogenic'
input is enough to disturb the delicate balance. "Anthropogenic CO2
is a biogeochemical perturbation of truly geologic proportions"
[Sundquist] and has caused a steep rise of atmospheric CO2.

The vexing thing is that, in the global carbon cycle, the rising level
of atmospheric CO2 and the human origin of this rise are about the only
two things that are known with high certainty. ...

... Overall, a natural disturbance causing the recent CO2 rise is
extremely unlikely. ...



The Basics: Isotopic Fingerprints

... Total, when you add up all of the carbon entering the atmosphere and subtract all of the carbon leaving the atmosphere, you find that more carbon dioxide is added to our atmosphere each year. However, without net sinks, this value (carbon dioxide is added) would be twice as large! ...


The Data: What 13C Tells Us

... One of the most important uses of δ13C measurements is in determining the strength of the terrestrial biosphere sink. Since about half of the carbon dioxide we add to the atmosphere each year is absorbed into various sinks, it is important for future predictions to know where exactly that carbon dioxide goes. ...


What is causing the increase in atmospheric CO2?

... There are many lines of evidence which clearly show that the atmospheric CO2 increase is caused by humans. The clearest of these is simple accounting - humans are emitting CO2 at a rate twice as fast as the atmospheric increase (natural sinks are absorbing the other half). There is no question whatsoever that the CO2 increase is human-caused. This is settled science. ...

Simple Accounting

Ocean Acidification

Oceanic CO2 Rising [increasing] Fastest at the Surface

Atmospheric O2 is Decreasing

CO2 Rise is Smoother than Temperature

Isotopic Signature

Settled Science ...




Despite continued fossil-fuels-industry sponsored FUD and LIES (all in the name of Marketing?)... The Global Warming (Global Heating really) 'argument' has long moved on to "What-We-Gonna-Do-About-It?"...

It may be we need some mayhem and deaths to finally convince people that something needs doing. Unfortunately, despite nearly 50 years of science giving the warnings, and the issues being known for over a century, turning the story around after a few storms may be after one tipping point too many...

How long before there is no summer ice in the Arctic and the northern jet stream is sent skittering akilter elsewhere?...


This is our only planet,
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Message 1254968 - Posted: 3 Jul 2012, 9:49:17 UTC - in response to Message 1254726.

Some recent observations while experiencing record temperatures.

The Sun is extremely intense right now even though it is only early July. It has to be throwing out more energy than even i remember as a kid growing up in Key West Florida which is the southernmost point in the United States. It is more like what I remember from visiting Singapore which is on the equator. I suspect either axis precession and/or the increased solar activity. Without daytime clouds, night time clear and adverse jet stream patterns we start the day at a high air temp which climbs to 100 degrees Fahrenheit (37.8 Celsius for youse commies) before noontime.

For ML. I think that it would be more logical to worry about the heat that is produced in oxidizing carbon (combustion, nuclear release and digestion) than the actual gas itself. We gain energy from the Sun and all forms of combustion and oxidation. We also gain heat from Nuclear power plants from releasing that stored as mass and dumped as waste energy into the atmosphere from the cooling towers. That makes me wonder if Nuclear is a legitimate strategy for reducing CO-2 in order to combat a putative cause of global warming.

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Message 1255073 - Posted: 3 Jul 2012, 14:53:56 UTC

Regardless of the cause, it seems safe to say the US has been in the middle of an unusual heatwave for weeks.

Here in the northeast we've been roasting away again, after a few days of "normal" temps.

I've never in my life seen it so hot, so consistently, so early in the year. Yes it is now July, however this 90f+ heat has been going on for over a month, with very few breaks.

I don't know the cause, maybe it's just a hot summer, but man this is unusual.
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Message 1255288 - Posted: 4 Jul 2012, 6:09:30 UTC

If not already, then very soon the USA and western europe will be minor contributors to the "greenhouse effect". Not because we have become more responsible toward our planet but because the rapid industrialization of China will totally outstrip what we in the west have done to the environment. I just saw programming that stated that ten years ago there were only about 10,000 automobiles in all of China. The number is now over 6,000,000 and climbing at a fantastic rate. They stated that by 2020 there will be more cars in China than the rest of the world combined. And that's just cars. China is currently second only to the USA in the consumption of petroleum products. So if you want to save the planet from whatever disaster we are bringing to it you better convince the Chinese to go greener.
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Message 1255435 - Posted: 4 Jul 2012, 14:27:13 UTC - in response to Message 1254968.

Some recent observations while experiencing record temperatures.

The Sun is extremely intense right now even though it is only early July. It has to be throwing out more energy than even i remember as a kid growing up in Key West Florida which is the southernmost point in the United States. It is more like what I remember from visiting Singapore which is on the equator. I suspect either axis precession and/or the increased solar activity. Without daytime clouds, night time clear and adverse jet stream patterns we start the day at a high air temp which climbs to 100 degrees Fahrenheit (37.8 Celsius for youse commies) before noontime.

For ML. I think that it would be more logical to worry about the heat that is produced in oxidizing carbon (combustion, nuclear release and digestion) than the actual gas itself. We gain energy from the Sun and all forms of combustion and oxidation. We also gain heat from Nuclear power plants from releasing that stored as mass and dumped as waste energy into the atmosphere from the cooling towers. That makes me wonder if Nuclear is a legitimate strategy for reducing CO-2 in order to combat a putative cause of global warming.



A year or so ago there was an article in Astronomy magazine that postulated that the sun might be a variable star. Im not any where versed on the life cycle of G types stars Or any stars for that matter. But if what they think is true that could explain some of our ice ages and warm periods through the ages.

At the end of the article they did state that as the sun gets older it will get hotter, And that in 500 million years it will be to hot on earth for life. I thought that we had untill the sun started its red giant phase.


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Message 1255651 - Posted: 4 Jul 2012, 21:46:53 UTC

From what I understand the sun was originally thought to be a "steady state" star with minimal fluctuations in energy output. Based on studies of the sun we now know it has cycles during which the energy output varies at a measureable level. One of these cycles is the 11 year cycle of sunspot activity but there are other cycles as well. The orbits of the planets around the sun, including earth's are not circular. And then the path of the sun's orbit around the galaxy moves it (and us) up and down through the plane of the galaxies disc. When all of these forces are in certain alignments the effect on earth's weather can be significant.

Ironically we are supposed to heading into the next ice age in the not too distant future, whatever that means.
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Message 1256453 - Posted: 6 Jul 2012, 16:15:17 UTC - in response to Message 1255651.
Last modified: 6 Jul 2012, 16:17:29 UTC

From what I understand the sun was originally thought to be a "steady state" star with minimal fluctuations in energy output. Based on studies of the sun we now know it has cycles during which the energy output varies at a measureable level. ...

And that variation is measured in modern times to be far lower than what we are experiencing here on the ground for temperature/energy levels recorded. The other significant effects that are also measured are the Earth's reflectivity (albedo) and greenhouse gasses...


Ironically we are supposed to heading into the next ice age in the not too distant future, whatever that means.


Note from the earlier post:

... Attribution of recent climate change

... Attribution of recent change to anthropogenic forcing is based on the following facts:

The observed change is not consistent with natural variability.
Known natural forcings would, if anything, be negative over this period.
Known anthropogenic [("Man-made")] forcings are consistent with the observed response [(of extra heating)].
The pattern of the observed change is consistent with the anthropogenic forcing. ...



Or is this all so unwanted that there is a hope that by repeating "it ain't so" often enough might somehow make it all 'go away'?


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Message 1256457 - Posted: 6 Jul 2012, 16:23:00 UTC

So... Why is "no ice" at the north pole "good for shipping" and unbelievably costly bad for the rest of us?...

See for yourself if you can follow these two posts:


UK: Met Office confirms wettest June in over a century

... Movements in the track of the jet stream, a narrow band of fast flowing westerly winds high in the atmosphere, have contributed to the weather we have seen.

This June has seen periods of heavy and prolonged rain, as well as short but exceptionally heavy showers.

The total UK rainfall was 145.3mm – exactly twice as much as you would normally expect compared to the 1971-2000 average. ...



Slowing Rossby Waves Leading to Extreme Weather?

... we need to first refresh our memory of the atmospheric circulation from high school geography (at least that's where I first heard it, so long ago...

...[No Arctic ice] ... This in turn means that the Arctic ocean absorbs a lot more sunlight in the late summer and fall, which it then gives back to the atmosphere in the winter. Because the atmosphere is then warmer than it used to be as a result, it...



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Message 1256488 - Posted: 6 Jul 2012, 17:04:06 UTC
Last modified: 6 Jul 2012, 17:06:46 UTC

Ice has melted many times from both poles. Life went on and it wasn't caused by mankind.

Cores from both poles and seas tell us that the planet has warmed and cooled many times and life went on and it wasn't caused by mankind.

Not too long ago the Little Ice Age froze the Thames river in England. ‘Maunder minimum’, my point being is that mankind does not effect the weather in any way other then cities and the temps around one. A city if large enough will raise the temp within and around it by a degree or two and can even make it rain down range from that city if conditions are right. The SUN by FAR effects our weather patterns. The SUN is the MAIN driver of our weather and we are last on that list of drivers of weather patterns. If we was to remove a mountin range we could effect weather patterns, we cannot and have not done such a thing.

Today it will be hotter in Teutopolis Il. then it will be in Phoenix Az. This has NO-THING to do with my SUV which pumps out as much C02 as a cow does in one day if I drive it 30 miles in a day. It gets 24 miles per gallon, 18 if I pull my bassboat with it.

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Message 1256701 - Posted: 7 Jul 2012, 0:20:15 UTC - in response to Message 1256457.
Last modified: 7 Jul 2012, 0:22:29 UTC

UK: Met Office confirms wettest June in over a century


Record drought here in Middle Tennessee. Trees going dormant and dropping leaves into my pool. All grass in the neighborhood is as brown as dried straw. Fires out West due to dry conditions.

Been at Folkstone and Dover, plenty of headland there. UK could stand many feet of water rise. Arctic ice is floating so water won't rise anyway. Antarctic ice is mostly on dry land --it's accumulating to record thickness.

Coldest month in Europe
Hottest month here in much of the United States. Perhaps we are cooling and warming at the same time ??

Normal fluctuations and cycles caused probably by more energy impinging on the Earth right now.

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Message 1256878 - Posted: 7 Jul 2012, 6:45:54 UTC
Last modified: 7 Jul 2012, 6:48:50 UTC

Again everyone ignores my pet theory (all of us seem to have one or two) that the real problem isn't so much what we are doing to harm the planet as it is how many of us there are to do the harm. Consider China and air polution caused by the automobile. Even if the Chinese are building cars that have 50% less emissions that those built elsewhere the fact that they have at least ten times as many potential car owners as the rest of the world causes them to jump to the front of the class. The rest of the world was better off when most of China's population were rural farmers riding bicycles as their means of transportation. Now that they are aware of the "modern" conveniences that many of their neighbors have it's only natural that they want the same things. But there are just so many more of them and that alone will make them the world's leader down that path to "global warming" and it's consequences. So as I have maintained all along we jolly well better figure out how to deal with it because no other country in the world, even if they wanted to, can deter China from the path it is on.

A while back I was considering buying the Rosetta Stone software to learn spanish, being that I live in Florida. But now I'm thinking we all in the western hemisphere better start learning Chinese instead.
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My motto: Never do today what you can put off until tomorrow as it may not be required. This no longer applies in light of current events.

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Message 1261101 - Posted: 16 Jul 2012, 12:45:17 UTC - in response to Message 1256878.

Again everyone ignores my pet theory (all of us seem to have one or two) that the real problem isn't so much what we are doing to harm the planet as it is how many of us there are to do the harm. ...

That is indeed a part of the 'problem'.

However, note that there is a lot more to the 'story'...

Also note that as people become better educate or more religious, the population growth reduces to then just keep the population stable to maintain good conditions... Good practical examples are Tibet pre-Chinese invasion, and Kerela India today.


More of a question is why we are so rapaciously getting it so very wrong for everyone...

This is our only one planet,
Martin

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Message boards : Politics : Climate Change, 'Greenhouse' effects, Environment, etc part III

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