When we put more information on the user Wiki, we create the impression that users need to understand that info in order to run BOINC. This drives off the non-computer people.

The thing is, Wikis are a computer thing- only people familiar with their computers would think to go to one for more information.
Wikpedia is fairly well known among most people that are online, and gets the occasional mention in a news story (print, radio TV) but most people wouldn't think of looking for help for a software problem on one.

So "General information" and "Running BOINC: basic" needs to be as simple as possible.

I agree, the default interface & instructions need to be as basic as possible. Being able to install the programme, and then have it allow the user just to click on the project they want & everything is taken care of- default CPU usage, cache size etc.
But it's important to have advanced options. As can be seen in these forums people (for all sorts of reasons) have different requirements & it would be nice if they could find out what they need to know easily & not have to come to forums such as these for information that whould be readily available in the software's documentation.

By all means have a basic information & help section. But make sure there is an advanced one there as well.

---

Grant
Darwin NT

As someone who has been a trainer and an author of instruction manuals etc. I have learnt that no matter how simple a product is, there always needs to be, at least, an instuction sheet.

And those instructions need to be written at the level of the user.

As someone who has been a trainer and an author of instruction manuals etc. I have learnt that no matter how simple a product is, there always needs to be, at least, an instuction sheet.

And those instructions need to be written at the level of the user.

And users come in all levels from clueless all the way up to power user.

---

Grant
Darwin NT

Yeah, but I am not talking just about the documentation either. I am also talking about that attitude with BOINCmanager itself. And I am mean the advanced view here. Hiding the messages so that they are no longer in an easily accessible tab that is always there in the manager. Making some messages hidden, so much that you have to fiddle with a cc_config to see them. Creating a notices tab, and then discouraging project admins from putting useful information in them. Very frustrating. Simplicity via obfuscation just pisses off the users.


And frankly, I don't believe that there are any significant number of BOINC users that *aren't* computer people, and never will be. It's just the nature of the activity. So quit trying to please a tiny minority at the expense of the real user base.

Again, all IMO.

---

Dublin, California
Team: SETI.USA

Yeah, but I am not talking just about the documentation either. I am also talking about that attitude with BOINCmanager itself. And I am mean the advanced view here. Hiding the messages so that they are no longer in an easily accessible tab that is always there in the manager. Making some messages hidden, so much that you have to fiddle with a cc_config to see them. Creating a notices tab, and then discouraging project admins from putting useful information in them. Very frustrating. Simplicity via obfuscation just pisses off the users.


And frankly, I don't believe that there are any significant number of BOINC users that *aren't* computer people, and never will be. It's just the nature of the activity. So quit trying to please a tiny minority at the expense of the real user base.

Again, all IMO.

I don't really see the point in going the direction they are with the manager either & dislike the dumbing down of things. I use the term playskool interface when things like that are done. It is also one of the reasons I didn't use the new manager for BOINC with 6.12.x came out. I am sticking with the 6.10 manager. Until it no longer works, I find something better, or make my own custom version.

---

SETI@home classic workunits: 93,865 CPU time: 863,447 hours
Join the [url=http://tinyurl.com/8y46zvu]BP6/VP6 User Group[

I don't really see the point in going the direction they are with the manager either & dislike the dumbing down of things. I use the term playskool interface when things like that are done. It is also one of the reasons I didn't use the new manager for BOINC with 6.12.x came out. I am sticking with the 6.10 manager. Until it no longer works, I find something better, or make my own custom version.

+1

---

Kevin

Just upgraded to v7.0 public
Installed over top of v6.12.34
BM starts, generates notice syntax error in app_info.xml and points me to a seti web page on anon platform and app_info.

Thing is that the current app_info.xml was working ok, prior to the install of V7.0.25 which afaik is the public release.

So whats v7 seeing in my previously working app_info.xml that now an error, there isnt a line number or anthing to show what/where this syntax error is:-(

Anyone got any ideas?

This is the file in question.
<app_info>
<app>
<name>setiathome_enhanced</name>
</app>
<file_info>
<name>AK_v8b2_win_SSE3_AMD.exe</name>
<executable/>
</file_info>
<app_version>
<app_name>setiathome_enhanced</app_name>
<version_num>603</version_num>
<platform>windows_intelx86</platform>
<file_ref>
<file_name>AK_v8b2_win_SSE3_AMD.exe</file_name>
<main_program/>
</file_ref>
</app_version>
<app_version>
<app_name>setiathome_enhanced</app_name>
<version_num>603</version_num>
<platform>windows_x86_64</platform>
<file_ref>
<file_name>AK_v8b2_win_SSE3_AMD.exe</file_name>
<main_program/>
</file_ref>
</app_version>
<app>
<name>astropulse_v6</name>
</app>
<file_info>
<name>ap_6.01r557_SSE2_331_AVX.exe</name>
<executable/>
</file_info>
<app_version>
<app_name>astropulse_v6</app_name>
<version_num>601</version_num>
<platform>windows_intelx86</platform>
<file_ref>
<file_name>ap_6.01r557_SSE2_331_AVX.exe</file_name>
<main_program/>
</file_ref>
</app_version>
<app_version>
<app_name>astropulse_v6</app_name>
<version_num>601</version_num>
<platform>windows_x86_64</platform>
<file_ref>
<file_name>ap_6.01r557_SSE2_331_AVX.exe</file_name>
<main_program/>
</file_ref>
</app_version>
<app>
<name>astropulse_v505</name>
</app>
<app_version>
<app_name>astropulse_v505</app_name>
<version_num>505</version_num>
<platform>windows_intelx86</platform>
<cmdline>-v505</cmdline>
<file_ref>
<file_name>ap_6.01r557_SSE2_331_AVX.exe</file_name>
<main_program/>
</file_ref>
</app_version>
<app_version>
<app_name>astropulse_v505</app_name>
<version_num>505</version_num>
<platform>windows_x86_64</platform>
<cmdline>-v505</cmdline>
<file_ref>
<file_name>ap_6.01r557_SSE2_331_AVX.exe</file_name>
<main_program/>
</file_ref>
</app_version>
<app>
<name>astropulse_v6</name>
</app>
<file_info>
<name>AP6_win_x86_SSE3_OpenCL_NV_r560.exe</name>
<executable/>
</file_info>
<app_version>
<app_name>astropulse_v6</app_name>
<version_num>601</version_num>
<avg_ncpus>0.04</avg_ncpus>
<max_ncpus>0.2</max_ncpus>
<platform>windows_intelx86</platform>
<plan_class>cuda_fermi</plan_class>
<cmdline>-instances_per_device 1 -unroll 10 -ffa_block 6144 -ffa_block_fetch 1536 -sbs 256 -hp</cmdline>
<coproc>
<type>CUDA</type>
<count>1</count>
</coproc>
<file_ref>
<file_name>AP6_win_x86_SSE3_OpenCL_NV_r560.exe</file_name>
<main_program/>
</file_ref>
</app_version>
<app_version>
<app_name>astropulse_v6</app_name>
<version_num>601</version_num>
<avg_ncpus>0.04</avg_ncpus>
<max_ncpus>0.2</max_ncpus>
<platform>windows_x86_64</platform>
<plan_class>cuda_fermi</plan_class>
<cmdline>-instances_per_device 1 -unroll 10 -ffa_block 6144 -ffa_block_fetch 1536 -sbs 256 -hp
<coproc>
<type>CUDA</type>
<count>1</count>
</coproc>
<file_ref>
<file_name>AP6_win_x86_SSE3_OpenCL_NV_r560.exe</file_name>
<main_program/>
</file_ref>
</app_version>
<app>
<name>astropulse_v505</name>
</app>
<app_version>
<app_name>astropulse_v505</app_name>
<version_num>506</version_num>
<avg_ncpus>0.04</avg_ncpus>
<max_ncpus>0.2</max_ncpus>
<platform>windows_intelx86</platform>
<plan_class>cuda_fermi</plan_class>
<cmdline>-instances_per_device 1 -unroll 10 -ffa_block 6144 -ffa_block_fetch 1536 -sbs 256 -hp</cmdline>
<coproc>
<type>CUDA</type>
<count>1</count>
</coproc>
<file_ref>
<file_name>AP6_win_x86_SSE3_OpenCL_NV_r560.exe</file_name>
<main_program/>
</file_ref>
</app_version>
<app_version>
<app_name>astropulse_v505</app_name>
<version_num>505</version_num>
<avg_ncpus>0.04</avg_ncpus>
<max_ncpus>0.2</max_ncpus>
<platform>windows_intelx86</platform>
<plan_class>cuda_fermi</plan_class>
<cmdline>-instances_per_device 1 -unroll 10 -ffa_block 6144 -ffa_block_fetch 1536 -sbs 256 -hp</cmdline>
<coproc>
<type>CUDA</type>
<count>1</count>
</coproc>
<file_ref>
<file_name>AP6_win_x86_SSE3_OpenCL_NV_r560.exe</file_name>
<main_program/>
</file_ref>
</app_version>
<app_version>
<app_name>astropulse_v505</app_name>
<version_num>506</version_num>
<avg_ncpus>0.04</avg_ncpus>
<max_ncpus>0.2</max_ncpus>
<platform>windows_x86_64</platform>
<plan_class>cuda_fermi</plan_class>
<cmdline>-instances_per_device 1 -unroll 10 -ffa_block 6144 -ffa_block_fetch 1536 -sbs 256 -hp</cmdline>
<coproc>
<type>CUDA</type>
<count>1</count>
</coproc>
<file_ref>
<file_name>AP6_win_x86_SSE3_OpenCL_NV_r560.exe</file_name>
<main_program/>
</file_ref>
</app_version>
<app_version>
<app_name>astropulse_v505</app_name>
<version_num>505</version_num>
<avg_ncpus>0.04</avg_ncpus>
<max_ncpus>0.2</max_ncpus>
<platform>windows_x86_64</platform>
<plan_class>cuda_fermi</plan_class>
<cmdline>-instances_per_device 1 -unroll 10 -ffa_block 6144 -ffa_block_fetch 1536 -sbs 256 -hp</cmdline>
<coproc>
<type>CUDA</type>
<count>1</count>
</coproc>
<file_ref>
<file_name>AP6_win_x86_SSE3_OpenCL_NV_r560.exe</file_name>
<main_program/>
</file_ref>
</app_version>
<app>
<name>setiathome_enhanced</name>
</app>
<file_info>
<name>Lunatics_x41g_win32_cuda32.exe</name>
<executable/>
</file_info>
<file_info>
<name>cudart32_32_16.dll</name>
<executable/>
</file_info>
<file_info>
<name>cufft32_32_16.dll</name>
<executable/>
</file_info>
<app_version>
<app_name>setiathome_enhanced</app_name>
<version_num>610</version_num>
<platform>windows_intelx86</platform>
<plan_class>cuda_fermi</plan_class>
<avg_ncpus>0.040000</avg_ncpus>
<max_ncpus>0.040000</max_ncpus>
<coproc>
<type>CUDA</type>
<count>1</count>
</coproc>
<file_ref>
<file_name>Lunatics_x41g_win32_cuda32.exe</file_name>
<main_program/>
</file_ref>
<file_ref>
<file_name>cudart32_32_16.dll</file_name>
</file_ref>
<file_ref>
<file_name>cufft32_32_16.dll</file_name>
</file_ref>
</app_version>
<app_version>
<app_name>setiathome_enhanced</app_name>
<version_num>609</version_num>
<platform>windows_intelx86</platform>
<plan_class>cuda23</plan_class>
<avg_ncpus>0.040000</avg_ncpus>
<max_ncpus>0.040000</max_ncpus>
<coproc>
<type>CUDA</type>
<count>1</count>
</coproc>
<file_ref>
<file_name>Lunatics_x41g_win32_cuda32.exe</file_name>
<main_program/>
</file_ref>
<file_ref>
<file_name>cudart32_32_16.dll</file_name>
</file_ref>
<file_ref>
<file_name>cufft32_32_16.dll</file_name>
</file_ref>
</app_version>
<app_version>
<app_name>setiathome_enhanced</app_name>
<version_num>608</version_num>
<platform>windows_intelx86</platform>
<plan_class>cuda</plan_class>
<avg_ncpus>0.040000</avg_ncpus>
<max_ncpus>0.040000</max_ncpus>
<coproc>
<type>CUDA</type>
<count>1</count>
</coproc>
<file_ref>
<file_name>Lunatics_x41g_win32_cuda32.exe</file_name>
<main_program/>
</file_ref>
<file_ref>
<file_name>cudart32_32_16.dll</file_name>
</file_ref>
<file_ref>
<file_name>cufft32_32_16.dll</file_name>
</file_ref>
</app_version>
<app_version>
<app_name>setiathome_enhanced</app_name>
<version_num>610</version_num>
<platform>windows_x86_64</platform>
<plan_class>cuda_fermi</plan_class>
<avg_ncpus>0.040000</avg_ncpus>
<max_ncpus>0.040000</max_ncpus>
<coproc>
<type>CUDA</type>
<count>1</count>
</coproc>
<file_ref>
<file_name>Lunatics_x41g_win32_cuda32.exe</file_name>
<main_program/>
</file_ref>
<file_ref>
<file_name>cudart32_32_16.dll</file_name>
</file_ref>
<file_ref>
<file_name>cufft32_32_16.dll</file_name>
</file_ref>
</app_version>
<app_version>
<app_name>setiathome_enhanced</app_name>
<version_num>609</version_num>
<platform>windows_x86_64</platform>
<plan_class>cuda23</plan_class>
<avg_ncpus>0.040000</avg_ncpus>
<max_ncpus>0.040000</max_ncpus>
<coproc>
<type>CUDA</type>
<count>1</count>
</coproc>
<file_ref>
<file_name>Lunatics_x41g_win32_cuda32.exe</file_name>
<main_program/>
</file_ref>
<file_ref>
<file_name>cudart32_32_16.dll</file_name>
</file_ref>
<file_ref>
<file_name>cufft32_32_16.dll</file_name>
</file_ref>
</app_version>
<app_version>
<app_name>setiathome_enhanced</app_name>
<version_num>608</version_num>
<platform>windows_x86_64</platform>
<plan_class>cuda</plan_class>
<avg_ncpus>0.040000</avg_ncpus>
<max_ncpus>0.040000</max_ncpus>
<coproc>
<type>CUDA</type>
<count>1</count>
</coproc>
<file_ref>
<file_name>Lunatics_x41g_win32_cuda32.exe</file_name>
<main_program/>
</file_ref>
<file_ref>
<file_name>cudart32_32_16.dll</file_name>
</file_ref>
<file_ref>
<file_name>cufft32_32_16.dll</file_name>
</file_ref>
</app_version>
</app_info>

---

Cliff,
Been there, Done that, Still no damm T shirt!

Ref my Last..
I now have zero GPU tasks and I therefore assume that its GPU related that syntax error.. What happened to the WU I dont know but suspect v7 dumped them:-(

I believed that the current lunatics apps were ok for v7, is it possible that there is some problem compatability wise?

Regards,
Cliff

---

Cliff,
Been there, Done that, Still no damm T shirt!

Ref my Last..
I now have zero GPU tasks and I therefore assume that its GPU related that syntax error.. What happened to the WU I dont know but suspect v7 dumped them:-(

I believed that the current lunatics apps were ok for v7, is it possible that there is some problem compatability wise?

Regards,
Cliff

There shouldn't be any compatibility issues. Lunatics testers are also active BOINC v7 testers, and the Lunatics installer is developed and tested on a machine running BOINC v7 - yes, it's now running the released v7.0.25, same as you.

I notice you have entries for AP6_win_x86_SSE3_OpenCL_NV_r560.exe, which hasn't been released via an installer yet - so I wondered whether any gremlins might have crept in during the manual edit. But I can't see any problems by eye, whether in that section or anywhere else.

I need to break and get some food now, before my proof-reading skills depart completely. I'll have another go when I get back, if nobody's cracked it by then.

Hi Richard,
Another thing I've noticed, while no GPU taks show up in BoincM's list of tasks, on my account page it show a number of GPU tasks as in progress... So it seems the servers havent been informed that those WU have been dumped by BM. If its dumped them not just isnt bothering to show WU it thinks it cant process.

Cheers,
Cliff

---

Cliff,
Been there, Done that, Still no damm T shirt!

Hi Richard,
I used aimerge to modify the app_info then tweaked the rollback as you advised.. Been working ok till now..

Good munching:-)

Cheers,
Cliff

---

Cliff,
Been there, Done that, Still no damm T shirt!

second instance of NV_r560 is missing a </cmdline>

---

I'm not the Pope. I don't speak Ex Cathedra!

Hi LadyL,
Well spotted, now corrected.. about to fire up boinc again and see what transpires:-)
[edit]
Got project update, resent of 'lost' tasks.. all GPU.. seems problem cured.
[/edit]

Was working as it stood before tho... wierd or what?

Anyways much obliged for your assistence.

Regards,
Cliff

---

Cliff,
Been there, Done that, Still no damm T shirt!

And now for the next installment:-)

On my account page, in tasks is shown an aP6 WU marked as GPU, but BM's task list shows it as CPU..

Whatever next I wonder?

I guess BM and the servers are having a dialogue problem.. so something..

Regards,
Cliff

---

Cliff,
Been there, Done that, Still no damm T shirt!

My guess was when SETI resent the lost tasks, it was for a CPU request.

When it does that, it does not change the initial designation on the site.

---

Yeah, but I am not talking just about the documentation either. I am also talking about that attitude with BOINCmanager itself. And I am mean the advanced view here. Hiding the messages so that they are no longer in an easily accessible tab that is always there in the manager.

Having the message-log in a separate window is a big improvement from having it stuck in a tab, since now you can have both a tab and the messages open at the same time. Having to constantly re-search for the same task or transfer while switching back and forth between task/transfer-tab and message-tab while trying various things was very time-consuming.

Making some messages hidden, so much that you have to fiddle with a cc_config to see them. Creating a notices tab, and then discouraging project admins from putting useful information in them. Very frustrating. Simplicity via obfuscation just pisses off the users.

Defaulting to "basic" messages can be understandable, but having an easier way to turn-on more "advanced" messages than having to make your own cc_config.xml would definitely be an advantage.

As for notices tab, unfortunately it's got weaknesses that limits it's usability. While an outage-message is useful before/under an outage, having the message still showing upto 1 month after the outage isn't very useful...

---

"I make so many mistakes. But then just think of all the mistakes I don't make, although I might."

Hi LadyL,
Well spotted, now corrected.. about to fire up boinc again and see what transpires:-)
[edit]
Got project update, resent of 'lost' tasks.. all GPU.. seems problem cured.
[/edit]

Was working as it stood before tho... wierd or what?

Anyways much obliged for your assistence.

Regards,
Cliff

It's a wonder what a good meal and a few pints will do - and a fresh pair of eyes has done the trick, as usual.

BOINC v7 uses a "new XML parser" pretty much everywhere. The good news: it should be more tolerant about handling "proper" XML - the bad news (or maybe this is good news as well): it appears to be less tolerant of bad XML.

Defaulting to "basic" messages can be understandable, but having an easier way to turn-on more "advanced" messages than having to make your own cc_config.xml would definitely be an advantage.

That gets my vote.
Times like now, where the Scheduler is responding with "No tasks sent" messages for work requests it would be nice just to check a couple of boxes to see just what was requested, and exactly what the response was from the server to that request.

---

Grant
Darwin NT

Having the message-log in a separate window is a big improvement from having it stuck in a tab...

Not on a single and/or small screen, it isn't:(

Well as long as it doesnt barf when it gets the result:-) I'd hate for it to get invalidated because it was the 'wrong' type and not as expected, since its going to take a lot longer to process using CPU..

Its only the one WU so far..

Regards,
Cliff

---

Cliff,
Been there, Done that, Still no damm T shirt!