Just wondering if there's any good reason to upgrade anything?


log in

Advanced search

Message boards : Number crunching : Just wondering if there's any good reason to upgrade anything?

1 · 2 · 3 · 4 . . . 7 · Next
Author Message
AlProject donor
Send message
Joined: 3 Apr 99
Posts: 481
Credit: 53,534,494
RAC: 29,616
United States
Message 1215388 - Posted: 7 Apr 2012, 23:47:45 UTC

I've had my machines set up for a year or 2 now, and reading the boards recently I see there is an updated version of Rast's optimized program out now. Having spent quite a while in the IT world, I've seen it from both sides, on one is the latest and greatest, (basically being an unpaid debugger) and the other is if it ain't broke don't fix it. I've been leaning towards that way for a while now, if there isn't a compelling reason to upgrade, run with what gotcha there I like to say. Taking a look at my start up info, can anyone make a comment if and why I should upgrade anything on my machine, from the version of BOINC to the vid drivers to the optimized apps. It seems fairly solid at this point, but if there is a good reason to upgrade, fill me in. Oh, and if you see anything that looks misconfigured, let me know too, as I want it to be running as efficiently as possible. Thanks!

4/7/2012 6:32:02 PM Starting BOINC client version 6.10.60 for windows_x86_64
4/7/2012 6:32:02 PM log flags: file_xfer, sched_ops, task
4/7/2012 6:32:02 PM Libraries: libcurl/7.19.7 OpenSSL/0.9.8l zlib/1.2.3
4/7/2012 6:32:02 PM Data directory: C:\Documents and Settings\All Users\Application Data\BOINC
4/7/2012 6:32:02 PM Running under account Administrator
4/7/2012 6:32:02 PM Processor: 8 GenuineIntel Intel(R) Core(TM) i7 CPU 950 @ 3.07GHz [Family 6 Model 26 Stepping 5]
4/7/2012 6:32:02 PM Processor: 256.00 KB cache
4/7/2012 6:32:02 PM Processor features: fpu vme de pse tsc msr pae mce cx8 apic sep mtrr pge mca cmov pat pse36 clflush dts acpi mmx fxsr sse sse2 ss htt tm pni ssse3 cx16 sse4_1 sse4_2 syscall nx lm vmx tm2 popcnt pbe
4/7/2012 6:32:02 PM OS: Microsoft Windows XP: Professional x64 Edition, Service Pack 2, (05.02.3790.00)
4/7/2012 6:32:02 PM Memory: 5.99 GB physical, 7.61 GB virtual
4/7/2012 6:32:02 PM Disk: 232.88 GB total, 219.40 GB free
4/7/2012 6:32:02 PM Local time is UTC -5 hours
4/7/2012 6:32:02 PM NVIDIA GPU 0: GeForce GTX 260 (driver version 27061, CUDA version 4000, compute capability 1.3, 896MB, 630 GFLOPS peak)
4/7/2012 6:32:02 PM NVIDIA GPU 1: GeForce GTX 260 (driver version 27061, CUDA version 4000, compute capability 1.3, 896MB, 630 GFLOPS peak)
4/7/2012 6:32:02 PM NVIDIA GPU 2: GeForce GTX 260 (driver version 27061, CUDA version 4000, compute capability 1.3, 896MB, 630 GFLOPS peak)
4/7/2012 6:32:02 PM NVIDIA GPU 3: GeForce GTX 260 (driver version 27061, CUDA version 4000, compute capability 1.3, 896MB, 630 GFLOPS peak)
4/7/2012 6:32:02 PM SETI@home Found app_info.xml; using anonymous platform
4/7/2012 6:32:03 PM SETI@home URL http://setiathome.berkeley.edu/; Computer ID 5873188; resource share 100
4/7/2012 6:32:03 PM SETI@home General prefs: from SETI@home (last modified 26-May-2007 00:12:51)
4/7/2012 6:32:03 PM SETI@home Computer location: home
4/7/2012 6:32:03 PM SETI@home General prefs: no separate prefs for home; using your defaults
4/7/2012 6:32:03 PM Reading preferences override file
4/7/2012 6:32:03 PM Preferences:
4/7/2012 6:32:03 PM max memory usage when active: 3067.44MB
4/7/2012 6:32:03 PM max memory usage when idle: 5828.13MB
4/7/2012 6:32:03 PM max disk usage: 100.00GB
4/7/2012 6:32:03 PM (to change preferences, visit the web site of an attached project, or select Preferences in the Manager)
4/7/2012 6:32:04 PM Not using a proxy
4/7/2012 6:32:04 PM SETI@home Started download of 11my11ac.30482.20112.13.10.127
4/7/2012 6:32:04 PM SETI@home Started download of 16my11aa.11362.405209.5.10.151
4/7/2012 6:32:04 PM SETI@home Restarting task 30se11ac.25285.3530.16.10.65_2 using setiathome_enhanced version 603
4/7/2012 6:32:04 PM SETI@home Restarting task 25ja12aa.6216.31630.8.10.40_1 using setiathome_enhanced version 603
4/7/2012 6:32:04 PM SETI@home Restarting task 25ja12aa.6216.31630.8.10.35_1 using setiathome_enhanced version 603
4/7/2012 6:32:04 PM SETI@home Restarting task 25ja12aa.6216.31630.8.10.25_1 using setiathome_enhanced version 603
4/7/2012 6:32:04 PM SETI@home Restarting task 27no11ah.28906.67.14.10.95_0 using setiathome_enhanced version 603
4/7/2012 6:32:04 PM SETI@home Restarting task 27no11ah.28906.67.14.10.93_1 using setiathome_enhanced version 603
4/7/2012 6:32:04 PM SETI@home Restarting task 27no11ah.28906.67.14.10.86_1 using setiathome_enhanced version 603
4/7/2012 6:32:04 PM SETI@home Restarting task 03ja12ae.21783.3917.10.10.195_1 using setiathome_enhanced version 608
4/7/2012 6:32:04 PM SETI@home Restarting task 03ja12ae.21783.3917.10.10.194_0 using setiathome_enhanced version 608
4/7/2012 6:32:04 PM SETI@home Restarting task 03ja12ae.21783.3917.10.10.192_1 using setiathome_enhanced version 608
4/7/2012 6:32:04 PM SETI@home Restarting task 27no11ah.28906.67.14.10.112_0 using setiathome_enhanced version 603
4/7/2012 6:32:04 PM SETI@home Restarting task 03ja12ae.21783.3917.10.10.187_1 using setiathome_enhanced version 608
4/7/2012 6:32:04 PM SETI@home Sending scheduler request: To fetch work.
4/7/2012 6:32:04 PM SETI@home Reporting 3 completed tasks, requesting new tasks for CPU

____________

Profile Wiggo
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 24 Jan 00
Posts: 7358
Credit: 96,914,323
RAC: 66,558
Australia
Message 1215405 - Posted: 8 Apr 2012, 0:27:48 UTC - in response to Message 1215388.
Last modified: 8 Apr 2012, 0:28:05 UTC

I've been using the Lunatics Optimized Apps for quite a few years now (latest version is here) which certainly greatly improves the output of my systems but I will warn you that it does increase the heat output as well so do be sure that your systems are well cooled.

Cheers.
____________

Profile perryjay
Volunteer tester
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 20 Aug 02
Posts: 3377
Credit: 15,946,571
RAC: 11,977
United States
Message 1215407 - Posted: 8 Apr 2012, 0:28:38 UTC - in response to Message 1215388.

If you want to do any APs you would have to upgrade your optimized apps.The one you are running now doesn't do the V6 APs and the only 5.05s you might get are resends.
____________


PROUD MEMBER OF Team Starfire World BOINC

Horacio
Send message
Joined: 14 Jan 00
Posts: 536
Credit: 75,115,485
RAC: 38,482
Argentina
Message 1215408 - Posted: 8 Apr 2012, 0:30:44 UTC

This is rather subjective so this are my thoughts:

For hardware, there is no reason to upgrade anything, unless you want to increase the RAC or you want to have new toys.

BOINC versions after 6.10 have long backoff and that combined with the issues on SETI bandwith may lead you to not beeing able to keep the host crunching.

Drivers, if everything is working and you dont play latest games, then I'll go for "dont fix if aint broken"... (But, if you want to run the Nvidia OpenCL app for Astropulse you may need to downgrade it)

Optimized apps, you need the latest ones for beeing able to crunch Astropulse V6, but also, newer versions have fixes to several things so it's always better to run the newest versions.

____________

Grant (SSSF)
Send message
Joined: 19 Aug 99
Posts: 5868
Credit: 60,605,793
RAC: 47,461
Australia
Message 1215412 - Posted: 8 Apr 2012, 0:38:08 UTC - in response to Message 1215408.


v7 will be along any minute now. I wouldn't bother doing anything till it has been released & the dust has settled.
Not untill Lunatics have released their installer for v7 will i be upgrading.
____________
Grant
Darwin NT.

AlProject donor
Send message
Joined: 3 Apr 99
Posts: 481
Credit: 53,534,494
RAC: 29,616
United States
Message 1215418 - Posted: 8 Apr 2012, 1:01:43 UTC - in response to Message 1215408.

This is rather subjective so this are my thoughts:

For hardware, there is no reason to upgrade anything, unless you want to increase the RAC or you want to have new toys.

Pretty happy with the hardware I have right now, though I do have two EVGA 295GTX Hydros gathering dust on the shelf right now, along with most everything I need to set up the water cooled system, just haven't taken the time to put it all together. One of these days...


BOINC versions after 6.10 have long back-off and that combined with the issues on SETI bandwidth may lead you to not being able to keep the host crunching.

So are you saying it would be better to run thru my current cache and then delete and re-load 6.10? Would I be losing anything in the process? I though I was reading that 7 is in testing right now, would being at 6.10 till a couple versions of 7 come out be a good idea? This system is pretty much a web browsing machine and my main 24x7x365 cruncher at this point.


Drivers, if everything is working and you dont play latest games, then I'll go for "dont fix if aint broken"... (But, if you want to run the Nvidia OpenCL app for Astropulse you may need to downgrade it)

No games, just web browsing for the most part and crunching. Tell me more about the downgrade necessary for AP, please.


Optimized apps, you need the latest ones for being able to crunch Astropulse V6, but also, newer versions have fixes to several things so it's always better to run the newest versions.

This goes along with the last comment, please tell me more about AP6, since the version 5 I have is pretty much obsolete. Are there driver/OS/BOINC version dependencies?

I've been using the Lunatics Optimized Apps for quite a few years now (latest version is here) which certainly greatly improves the output of my systems but I will warn you that it does increase the heat output as well so do be sure that your systems are well cooled.

Wiggo, I am currently running AK_v8b_win_x64_SSE41, and in task manager I also see running Lunatics_x32f_win32_cuda30_preview.exe Is this good, bad, or indifferent? Thanks guys for the quick replies!
____________

Profile Wiggo
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 24 Jan 00
Posts: 7358
Credit: 96,914,323
RAC: 66,558
Australia
Message 1215424 - Posted: 8 Apr 2012, 1:17:06 UTC - in response to Message 1215418.
Last modified: 8 Apr 2012, 1:20:25 UTC

You'll be better off with the latest installer as it will allow you to run the latest v6 Astropulse work (v505 is now history except for the occasional resend) but you will have to grab a newer installer again soon once v7 enhanced comes out (which is suppose to be released soon) as your current one will soon get no work at all.

You also do not need to run your cache down or reinstall your current BOINC version either, just run the new installer.

Cheers.
____________

Profile jason_gee
Volunteer developer
Volunteer tester
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 24 Nov 06
Posts: 5051
Credit: 73,858,886
RAC: 12,183
Australia
Message 1215434 - Posted: 8 Apr 2012, 1:33:19 UTC - in response to Message 1215388.
Last modified: 8 Apr 2012, 1:37:38 UTC

Taking a look from a slightly different angle...

...
4/7/2012 6:32:02 PM NVIDIA GPU 0: GeForce GTX 260 (driver version 27061, CUDA version 4000, compute capability 1.3, 896MB, 630 GFLOPS peak)
4/7/2012 6:32:02 PM NVIDIA GPU 1: GeForce GTX 260 (driver version 27061, CUDA version 4000, compute capability 1.3, 896MB, 630 GFLOPS peak)
4/7/2012 6:32:02 PM NVIDIA GPU 2: GeForce GTX 260 (driver version 27061, CUDA version 4000, compute capability 1.3, 896MB, 630 GFLOPS peak)
4/7/2012 6:32:02 PM NVIDIA GPU 3: GeForce GTX 260 (driver version 27061, CUDA version 4000, compute capability 1.3, 896MB, 630 GFLOPS peak)
...


You're asking if there's a good reason to upgrade (presumably anything). Others have covered the software aspects just fine. In hardware terms however, I'd suggest, depending on the cost of electricity for you, in the medium to longer term 2 x 580, or better yet 2 x 680 cards would give you more throughput for less long term cost. Whether heat & cost of power is enough to justify updates, only you could decide. If deciding to upgrade hardware, What I wouldn't do or suggest is filling all 4 slots with new cards to use the same power, but take a modest rise in productivity with energy & heat savings... At initial cost of disposing of those 260's & acquiring newer card(s).

2 x 680's would use about half the power (or less), produce more (probably a lot more) output than all those combined, and efficiency will improve as best programming practices for the new architecture evolves.

Just a suggestion, and won't be worth dwelling on if you don't pay for your electricity yourself.

Jason
____________
"It is not the strongest of the species that survives, nor the most intelligent that survives. It is the one that is the most adaptable to change."
Charles Darwin

AlProject donor
Send message
Joined: 3 Apr 99
Posts: 481
Credit: 53,534,494
RAC: 29,616
United States
Message 1215437 - Posted: 8 Apr 2012, 1:36:32 UTC

So you're saying to just D/L the new version and run it, without having to uninstall anything? I am going to hold off for a bit on the version 7 release, till as was stated previously the dust settles around it a bit. Will the drivers and version of BOINC I have currently work properly with the latest installer. I don't want to screw the pooch, so to speak, by muffing my current install and having to go thru a bunch of dependencies corrections. Sorry if I seem a bit gun shy, but I do want to get AP 6 tasks, and would think that it will be a number of months at a minimum to get v7 stabilized, so the upgrade makes sense.
____________

Profile MarkJProject donor
Volunteer tester
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 17 Feb 08
Posts: 942
Credit: 25,115,679
RAC: 24,718
Australia
Message 1215439 - Posted: 8 Apr 2012, 1:38:14 UTC

Re: BOINC versions

7.0.25 looks like it is soon to become the recommended version. While the 6.10 series don't have the project back off, the 7.0.25 is less prone to triggering a project back off. It still has them, just they relaxed the individual retries a bit.

They have some other new features since 6.10, such as support for OpenCL (ATI and Nvidia) and the cache logic is somewhat different along with the work fetch. Have a read through the change logs and see if there is anything that might be useful to you.
____________
BOINC blog

AlProject donor
Send message
Joined: 3 Apr 99
Posts: 481
Credit: 53,534,494
RAC: 29,616
United States
Message 1215445 - Posted: 8 Apr 2012, 1:42:22 UTC - in response to Message 1215434.

Jason, I did mention that I have those 2 295GTX Hydro's sitting on the shelf, they will provide a nice bump in performance when I finally get around to getting them installed. I am looking at a 970/980/990 CPU upgrade down the road as well if I can find one for a decent price, that is the top of the line for my board I believe, and would keep the cards sufficiently filled with tasks. Would there be any downside to putting in one or 2 of the 260's along with the 295's in one system? Is there a max # of 'cards' BOINC will support? Just curious.
____________

Profile jason_gee
Volunteer developer
Volunteer tester
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 24 Nov 06
Posts: 5051
Credit: 73,858,886
RAC: 12,183
Australia
Message 1215449 - Posted: 8 Apr 2012, 1:49:56 UTC - in response to Message 1215445.
Last modified: 8 Apr 2012, 2:06:12 UTC

260's & 295's being of the same generation, should be fine together, and not cause too many Boinc issues as they are similar performance & compute capabilities. The only things I'd be leery about would be the normal heat & power physical & cost issues, which may or may not concern you. As things stand, being Pre-Fermi's they prefer 1 task per card, and do have additional 'startup time' cost later cards don't have, but notheless 260's & 295's have both put in Stirling service over the years here. Their age tends to see more of them naturally dropping off due to old-age, but there's nothing to suggest they won't keep going for many years, and I've got no intention of deprecating their support in my future app updates.

Jason

[Edit:]

Is there a max # of 'cards' BOINC will support? Just curious.


Yes, the limit in server & app code is 8 GPUs (of either ATi or nVidia combined). I think there may be a similar limit within the Boinc client, but haven't checked. I've lifted limits to 16 in newer app builds I'm polishing, but the Boinc client/server limits would still be at 8

[Edit2:] Just an added thought. Some with 4 or more GTX200 series GPUs have experienced troubles with the added overheads in newer OS/Drivers (particularly Vista/Win7 WDDM). Something to keep in mind if you intend to upgrade OS at some point.
____________
"It is not the strongest of the species that survives, nor the most intelligent that survives. It is the one that is the most adaptable to change."
Charles Darwin

Horacio
Send message
Joined: 14 Jan 00
Posts: 536
Credit: 75,115,485
RAC: 38,482
Argentina
Message 1215457 - Posted: 8 Apr 2012, 2:08:41 UTC - in response to Message 1215418.

BOINC versions after 6.10 have long back-off and that combined with the issues on SETI bandwidth may lead you to not being able to keep the host crunching.

So are you saying it would be better to run thru my current cache and then delete and re-load 6.10? Would I be losing anything in the process? I though I was reading that 7 is in testing right now, would being at 6.10 till a couple versions of 7 come out be a good idea? This system is pretty much a web browsing machine and my main 24x7x365 cruncher at this point.

Nope... any 6.10.xxx version is just fine, version 6.12.xx and later versions have this issue of the long backoff, (not sure how it is with the version 7).

Drivers, if everything is working and you dont play latest games, then I'll go for "dont fix if aint broken"... (But, if you want to run the Nvidia OpenCL app for Astropulse you may need to downgrade it)

No games, just web browsing for the most part and crunching. Tell me more about the downgrade necessary for AP, please.

The AP optimized app version for Nvidia OpenCL when used with drivers from the version 270 and later, may use up to a full core of the CPU. If you install that specific app, you should go back to old drivers to avoid the issue.
Anyway, the NV OpenCL app is not included in the Lunatic's installer, and to use that app, you need to dowload and install it manually. The installer only has the app needed to run AP v6 on CPU and on ATI GPUs.

Optimized apps, you need the latest ones for being able to crunch Astropulse V6, but also, newer versions have fixes to several things so it's always better to run the newest versions.

This goes along with the last comment, please tell me more about AP6, since the version 5 I have is pretty much obsolete. Are there driver/OS/BOINC version dependencies?

For this, you only need to download and install the latest version of the optimized apps, which are perfectly compatible with all your current settings.

____________

AlProject donor
Send message
Joined: 3 Apr 99
Posts: 481
Credit: 53,534,494
RAC: 29,616
United States
Message 1215459 - Posted: 8 Apr 2012, 2:14:24 UTC - in response to Message 1215439.
Last modified: 8 Apr 2012, 2:18:09 UTC

*edit* you answered my question quite well, thank you. one other on that subject, should AP be run on the CPU or GPU for best performance, and can you force them to run on the best one, without a ton of file editing?

Also glad to hear I can load this thing up with video cards, and let'r rip. Is there any issue with running XP64 with any of these new versions? I like it, have multiple copies available, and would like to set and forget for as long as possible. I know MS is discontinuing live update support fairly soon, but if I get a couple fresh installs and ghost them after fully updating them before they pull the plug, I will be pretty much set for a number of years. I can't see spending any money on upgrades when I've already paid for the current OS's, and they work find for what I need them for, that is, until BOINC or Nvidia stops releasing compatible software for them.
____________

Profile jason_gee
Volunteer developer
Volunteer tester
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 24 Nov 06
Posts: 5051
Credit: 73,858,886
RAC: 12,183
Australia
Message 1215464 - Posted: 8 Apr 2012, 2:20:53 UTC - in response to Message 1215459.
Last modified: 8 Apr 2012, 2:24:02 UTC

6.10.60 = fine, they're the 'workable' backoffs

XP64 = great,

best Drivers may take some juggling to find ones that suit you & the chosen app. As far as Cuda multibeam app goes, you have a choice between stock 6.09 with old 190.38 for sheer throughput at some reliability & validation penalty, or the newer, more robust apps & some amount of driver related pain... earliest driver supporting Cuda 3.2, or ~266.58, should be the most workable for those GPUs & allow running that Astropulse later if you so choose.

[Edit:] Crunching AP on GPUs would likely be more efficient, if you can choose a driver that is OpenCL 1.0, not OpenCL 1.1. the mentioned 266.58 should work for those.
____________
"It is not the strongest of the species that survives, nor the most intelligent that survives. It is the one that is the most adaptable to change."
Charles Darwin

AlProject donor
Send message
Joined: 3 Apr 99
Posts: 481
Credit: 53,534,494
RAC: 29,616
United States
Message 1215473 - Posted: 8 Apr 2012, 2:41:18 UTC

Ok, hopefully last post, as I don't want to be a pest, but want to verify I am reading everything correctly. To be able to run the current project (AP6) I need to update my optimized app. To properly utilize it, with the least amount of pain, I should update my vid driver to 266.58. To allow/force the GPU to do the AP crunching, I need to download an add-on to the latest optimized app. Am I missing anything? Lastly, seeing what I am going to have to do, listed above, is there any preferred order to these updates? I would guess I'd start by shutting down BOINC, installing the new vid driver, re-starting, then after rebooting again, shut down BOINC and install the latest optimized app, and then the add-on for doing AP6 on the vid card, then restart BOINC. Is there any editing of the .cfg files needed after doing all these things, or should it pretty much be plug & pray? Thanks for All your advice, guys! And glad to hear the XP64 is GTG for a while, at least!
____________

Profile jason_gee
Volunteer developer
Volunteer tester
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 24 Nov 06
Posts: 5051
Credit: 73,858,886
RAC: 12,183
Australia
Message 1215474 - Posted: 8 Apr 2012, 2:46:33 UTC - in response to Message 1215473.
Last modified: 8 Apr 2012, 2:47:04 UTC

Sounds about right to me :) Good luck!

I would go with that procedure & sing out if you run into issues. There's some potential hidden things that may pop out to do with <flops>, and possibly system hardware/driver limitations with stacking up the cards, however I don't think it's worth going into detail about those unless you run into the related issues.

JAson
____________
"It is not the strongest of the species that survives, nor the most intelligent that survives. It is the one that is the most adaptable to change."
Charles Darwin

AlProject donor
Send message
Joined: 3 Apr 99
Posts: 481
Credit: 53,534,494
RAC: 29,616
United States
Message 1215479 - Posted: 8 Apr 2012, 2:52:18 UTC - in response to Message 1215474.

Well, just ran into roadblock #1, went to EVGA's site, to download version 266.58, and found that the oldest driver for the 200 series card was version 275.33. I didn't see a link on the results page for previous versions. I've always used EVGA cards, and always used their drivers, just because. Is there any way to find their 266.58 driver? I know I could go to Nvidia's site, but I'd prefer to use EVGA's version if possible. Thanks!
____________

Profile jason_gee
Volunteer developer
Volunteer tester
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 24 Nov 06
Posts: 5051
Credit: 73,858,886
RAC: 12,183
Australia
Message 1215481 - Posted: 8 Apr 2012, 3:01:18 UTC - in response to Message 1215479.
Last modified: 8 Apr 2012, 3:02:54 UTC

Always used eVGA cards, and drivers from nVidia's advanced driver search myself. I believe they're the same, but up to you. The only main functional issues you have with latest drivers would be with AP6-addon using a full CPU thread. Later drivers may or may not give you other overhead related issues with other apps depending on the system. I would suggest trying what you feel most comfortable with (say 275.33), then doing a damage assessment regarding APv6 & other apps to decide whether to change tactics.

Jason
____________
"It is not the strongest of the species that survives, nor the most intelligent that survives. It is the one that is the most adaptable to change."
Charles Darwin

Horacio
Send message
Joined: 14 Jan 00
Posts: 536
Credit: 75,115,485
RAC: 38,482
Argentina
Message 1215482 - Posted: 8 Apr 2012, 3:04:39 UTC - in response to Message 1215459.

... should AP be run on the CPU or GPU for best performance, and can you force them to run on the best one, without a ton of file editing?


Im not sure about the GTX260 performance... In my hosts running APs on a gt430 takes about the same time as running on a i5-2310 CPU core, but the 560TI does it 5 (or more) times faster.
I think that you should install both versions to see how they go in your system and then you can choose which one to keep...
____________

1 · 2 · 3 · 4 . . . 7 · Next

Message boards : Number crunching : Just wondering if there's any good reason to upgrade anything?

Copyright © 2014 University of California