Head Scratchers ...

Well, since you're pulling me off my point, here's your proof:

http://www.theattackdemocrat.com/2011/06/want-to-create-jobs-raise-taxes.html

So let's go ahead and get it back up to 91%. I'm all for it. Proof is in the numbers.

Apparently our mates across the pond don't feel the same way. Let's try to prove them wrong.

So let me try to get you back on my point and ask you this one question skildud, how many government jobs is enough? What percentage of the population should be government jobs and what percentage should be private sector jobs?

The number of government jobs keeps rising even though the economy goes through cycles of expansion and contraction. Shouldn't the number of government jobs at least expand and contract *with* the economy?

Since you changed yours, let me modify mine a bit.

So you admit there's a struggle for power between the government and its citizens. Good for you. I commend you for admitting this.

Since the economy expands and contracts, shouldn't the marginal rates expand and contract? We are down now and you say 91% is too much. What should it be?

And shouldn't *everybody* pay something? Is it right that we have a class of folks who pay nothing in income tax? Is it right that we have a class of people who get a negative income tax?

OK -- so if the US eliminated the clean water act, OSHA, EPA, clean air acts and minimum wages, everything in the US would return to being a land of milk and honey? Or would it return to the sort of place that Steinbeck often wrote about?

I think there was something very right in the acronym Heinlein used in 'The Moon is a Harsh Mistress' -- TINSTAAFL. If we eliminate the controls on demonstrable veniality, we get that. A lack of effective regulation in the stock market and housing loan market seems to have demonstrated that.

Or perhaps we should look to achieve the average standard of living obtained today in China and India.

Yes a lot has changed. Some large sections of the world changed to capitalist societies. These places do not have EPAs, OSHAs, clean water acts, clean air acts, minimum wage laws. We also have shipping costs that are very low. It ends up with the USA transferring its wealth, er capital, to others in a way that prevents recovery.

http://washingtonexaminer.com/politics/washington-secrets/2012/04/coke-caves-face-democratic-boycott-threat/444346

Ah! The attempt to make voters flash an ID card has now been linked to the Trayvon Martin shooting case.

http://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/apr/7/simmons-bill-cosby-weighs-trayvon-martin-case/

Is it the gun? Or the person carrying the gun?

Mr. Cosby, a Navy veteran, said “the gun” empowered Mr. Zimmerman, whose actions have stirred a firestorm of debate, protests and remarks from President Obama.

“We’ve got to get the gun out of the hands of people who are supposed to be on neighborhood watch,” said Mr. Cosby, whose remarks were the first he has made publicly about the case.

“Without a gun, I don’t see Mr. Zimmerman approaching Trayvon by himself,” Mr. Cosby explained. “The power-of-the-gun mentality had him unafraid to confront someone. Even police call for backup in similar situations.

“When you carry a gun, you mean to harm somebody, kill somebody,” he said.

In his remarks at the 2004 event, Mr. Cosby pointed out to the audience that blacks had essentially created a new lower rung on the socioeconomic ladder by failing to police their children.

The example I used specifically referred to federal government jobs. But my point applies to all levels of government jobs.

My point is, government employees get paid out of some fund generated by tax revenue. So, mathmatically, government employees are not self-sustainable. Government employees *must* be supported by the producers of the nation/state/county/city.

Yes, I know *more* than income tax is removed from your paycheck. Yes, I know government jobs pay *more* than private sector jobs. Neither of these was my point.

Are the schools paid for by the Federal Government, uh no, private are paid for the the attendees and public by the local government

Gary, I take your point, we 'exported' pollution, sweat shops and the like and then import the product of that that 'export'. That allows us to live above our earned means on the backs of offshore labor and environmental laxity. We are consumer goods addicts and those goods are no longer made here.

Are the schools paid for by the Federal Government, uh no, private are paid for the the attendees and public by the local government, so why are you shocked that the pay varies by location, or is this the thinking level of person who is teaching our children today?

Scroll up. My paycheck while teaching at a community college (my first teaching position), IIRC, came from the county. But, it might have been the state. NOWHERE in the post you quoted or elsewhere in this thread did I suggest otherwise.
Suggest you not read into posts or, worse, put words in people's mouths. This applies to suggesting that I am "shocked", as well.
What does surprise me is you overlooked "What I saw is a great deal of variance. Some state schools pay well, some do not. Some private schools pay well, some do not... what part of the country the school is in.", which was the main point.

Happy Easter,

So my point -- it is obvious that a local jobs pay will vary by location -- flew right over your head. You cutting out the part of your own words where you put emphasis via the underline and trying to blast me, well, I'm not shocked.

Sarge, regarding what you see as attacks -- often enough the fiercest verbal conflagrations occur between those who share many, but not all views. In part this may be because one person is sure they can get they can get the other to 'see the light'.

I've seen those fierce arguments on religious issues between say a Jehovah's Witness and a born again evangelical.

Where there is more 'separation' there is a degree of willingness to see the other as being from a different planet and somehow beyond the pale of becoming righteous via discussion.

For me, I love the discussions, though there are a few that I have learned to simply not engage with at all.

Just my two cents from the peanut gallery.

Are the schools paid for by the Federal Government, uh no, private are paid for the the attendees and public by the local government

Well, then, I think I see the source of our confusion.
In discussing the government jobs, specifically teaching jobs, I referred to my personal experiences teaching at the college/university level. I do not think I or anyone else was talking about teaching at an earlier level.
At the K-12 level? Yes, I suppose you have a small percentage of private schools (I taught for one, as I originally studied to teach at the secondary level) and then, as far as I recall, public K-12 schools are paid for by the local government.
And how does the bit about differences affect the discussion then? Not sure, since it has been so long since I was focused on finding a secondary level position, for one. Also, I'd start getting into the real of anecdotes even more.
Vary by location? Yep. Absolutely. That's when I first noticed the difference, in the early and mid-90s.
Vary between private and public? I am much less able to answer this. In 1996-1996 I taught at a private school for emotionally disturbed children and teens. I worked only with the teens. It was run by the Methodist Church, IIRC. (No, I am not Methodist.) I'd say for a first year teacher, the pay was fairly(?) competitive? On the other hand, we were there all year long. Summer vacation was turned into 1 or 2 weeks off at the beginning, when everyone else's vacations began, and another 1 or 2 weeks off just before everybody else would return.

Lets not forget that state and federal school funding is based on child attendance.
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