Head Scratchers ...

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Sarge Send message Joined: 25 Aug 99 Posts: 8870 Credit: 1,224,141 RAC: 1,902	Message 1214411 - Posted: 6 Apr 2012, 1:29:50 UTC - in response to Message 1214027.
	Head Scratcher #(n+1) In today's age of computing technology, how come the US Census Bureau has still not completed the 2010 census? http://2010.census.gov/2010census/data/ In the 2010-2012 age of ca;;s for cutbacks, there are less computers for the crunching of census data and less government employees to act as button pushers? I don't think so. http://www.opm.gov/feddata/HistoricalTables/TotalGovernmentSince1962.asp 1) I assume my earlier understanding of your point/question was correct? 2) Based on (1), where is it stated at the site you originally linked that the analysis is not done? 3) Your second link, quoted here, only goes through 2010. Thus, it does not let us see the effect, if any, of the Novemner 2010 elections. 4) I believe, both from several reports and personal experience, that there have been significant reductions in the number of government employees, both at the federal and state levels.
	ID: 1214411 · Reply Quote

Sarge Send message Joined: 25 Aug 99 Posts: 8870 Credit: 1,224,141 RAC: 1,902	Message 1214414 - Posted: 6 Apr 2012, 1:35:23 UTC - in response to Message 1214380.
	The Department of Energy was instituted on 8/04/1977, TO LESSEN OUR DEPENDENCE ON FOREIGN OIL. Hey, pretty efficient, huh??? Or, could it be we either have several people on a particular side that have something to gain by maintaining that dependence, or even several people on both "sides" with something to gain (again raising the question, who really pulls the strings)?
	ID: 1214414 · Reply Quote

Sarge Send message Joined: 25 Aug 99 Posts: 8870 Credit: 1,224,141 RAC: 1,902	Message 1214415 - Posted: 6 Apr 2012, 1:36:03 UTC - in response to Message 1214393.
	Head scratcher #(n+1) Speaking of activist SCOTUS judges, here's the full explaination of the president's remarks about the potential for the supreme court to invalidate his signature legislation: http://big.assets.huffingtonpost.com/DOJLetter.pdf scratch scratch scratch... Obama's statements were out of line, and there's no head scratching about that.
	ID: 1214415 · Reply Quote

Guy Send message Joined: 3 Apr 99 Posts: 1181 Credit: 3,467,968 RAC: 94	Message 1214521 - Posted: 6 Apr 2012, 11:17:53 UTC
	1. 1) Yup, looks like it. 1. 2) says, "most detailed available", which implies they're not done yet to me 1. 3) yup, shows how efficient our government is, the're always a couple years behind. This is unacceptable to me. Tells me they're bilking the tax payer and saying they're not getting enough instead of focussing on the most important stuff and doing it right and efficiently. I'd believe them more if they could do something to my satisfaction and then do nothing of something else and then say they need more money to do it. 1. 4) guess we'll just have to wait for their analysts to catch their data up into the second decade of the 21st century to find out. 2. yup. 3. yup. Head scratcher #(n+1) http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/obamas-budget-interest-payments-will-exceed-defense-budget-2019_635445.html How can he not know this? How can the majority of Americans not know where hyperinflation comes from? scratch scratch scratch...
	ID: 1214521 · Reply Quote

Guy Send message Joined: 3 Apr 99 Posts: 1181 Credit: 3,467,968 RAC: 94	Message 1214569 - Posted: 6 Apr 2012, 14:03:35 UTC
	Head Scratcher #(n+1) http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2124271/GSA-chief-resigns-investigation-820-000-training-conference-included-mind-reader-clown-comedian.html If she had only kept the cost under 800,000 dollars, probably nobody would have noticed. scratch, scratch, scratch.... And the answer to the deficit is the Buffett-rule? scratch, scratch, scratch....
	ID: 1214569 · Reply Quote

Sarge Send message Joined: 25 Aug 99 Posts: 8870 Credit: 1,224,141 RAC: 1,902	Message 1214655 - Posted: 6 Apr 2012, 16:45:27 UTC - in response to Message 1214569.
	And the answer to the deficit is the Buffett-rule? scratch, scratch, scratch.... No ... . The Buffett Rule is a claimed answer to a claimed unfairness. P.S.-word is The Daily Mail is less news and more a tabloid. Isn't this the same one with the article by the woman who claims she is so beautiful people hate her?
	ID: 1214655 · Reply Quote

Sarge Send message Joined: 25 Aug 99 Posts: 8870 Credit: 1,224,141 RAC: 1,902	Message 1215196 - Posted: 7 Apr 2012, 18:04:14 UTC - in response to Message 1214380.
	Head scratcher #(n+1) THE NIGHT WATCHMAN Once upon a time the government had a vast scrap yard in the middle of a desert. Congress said, "Someone may steal from it at night." So they created a night watchman position and hired a person for the job. Then Congress said, "How does the watchman do his job without instruction?" So they created a planning department and hired two people, one person to write the instructions, and one person to do time studies. Then Congress said, "How will we know the night watchman is doing the tasks correctly?" So, government can and indeed does create jobs? Scratch, scratch, scratch.
	ID: 1215196 · Reply Quote

Guy Send message Joined: 3 Apr 99 Posts: 1181 Credit: 3,467,968 RAC: 94	Message 1215202 - Posted: 7 Apr 2012, 18:15:02 UTC Last modified: 7 Apr 2012, 18:23:31 UTC
	They sure can create jobs! Problem is, government jobs are not self-sustaining. government employee wages = government employee wages - income tax
	ID: 1215202 · Reply Quote

BarryAZ Send message Joined: 1 Apr 01 Posts: 2480 Credit: 7,387,530 RAC: 13,461	Message 1215227 - Posted: 7 Apr 2012, 18:44:52 UTC - in response to Message 1215202.
	Guy, a number of things in the American economy are not strictly self sustaining -- think financial and housing bubbles.
	ID: 1215227 · Reply Quote

Tom95134 Send message Joined: 27 Nov 01 Posts: 205 Credit: 2,691,708 RAC: 2,261	Message 1215243 - Posted: 7 Apr 2012, 19:47:23 UTC - in response to Message 1214356.
	Ah for the good old days when a Social Security Card had the words "Not for Identification" on it. We can all thank the banksters, credit card companies and credit reporting companies for making the SSN such a universal number. ____________
	ID: 1215243 · Reply Quote

Tom95134 Send message Joined: 27 Nov 01 Posts: 205 Credit: 2,691,708 RAC: 2,261	Message 1215244 - Posted: 7 Apr 2012, 19:51:50 UTC - in response to Message 1214380.
	Head scratcher #(n+1) THE NIGHT WATCHMAN Once upon a time the government had a vast scrap yard in the middle of a desert. They still have a vast scrap yard in the middle of the desert. It's located between Phoenix and Tuscon (as I recall) and it's where they park all those obsolete military aircraft they bought with our billions and billions of tax dollars. ____________
	ID: 1215244 · Reply Quote

Gary Charpentier Volunteer tester Send message Joined: 25 Dec 00 Posts: 10313 Credit: 5,062,053 RAC: 6,228	Message 1215247 - Posted: 7 Apr 2012, 20:13:22 UTC - in response to Message 1215244.
	Head scratcher #(n+1) THE NIGHT WATCHMAN Once upon a time the government had a vast scrap yard in the middle of a desert. They still have a vast scrap yard in the middle of the desert. It's located between Phoenix and Tuscon (as I recall) and it's where they park all those obsolete military aircraft they bought with our billions and billions of tax dollars. Davis Monthan AFB boneyard in Tuscon. ____________
	ID: 1215247 · Reply Quote

Sarge Send message Joined: 25 Aug 99 Posts: 8870 Credit: 1,224,141 RAC: 1,902	Message 1215534 - Posted: 8 Apr 2012, 7:46:51 UTC - in response to Message 1215202. Last modified: 8 Apr 2012, 7:53:04 UTC
	They sure can create jobs! Problem is, government jobs are not self-sustaining. government employee wages = government employee wages - income tax Explain whether you are referring to federal govt. or state govt. jobs, or if you think this does not matter, state this. Clarify what you mean by "self-sustaining". As an employee of a state university, I can tell you more than income tax is removed from each of my paychecks. Same as the last state university I taught at, though the previous one was in another state and paid me more than additional $10000 per year than what I make here. I can also tell you that I started my teaching career at a community college (part of the SUNY system, making me an employee of either the state or county government), as a part-timer, while working on my Master's degree. Along with that part-time teaching, I also tutored in the college's Learning Center. Between these two things, for 1991-1996 dollars, while what I made was far from putting me in the 1%, was a very nice amount for part-time work. I am pretty sure my working in retail, like I did as an undergrad, would not have pulled in the same kind of money for me.
	ID: 1215534 · Reply Quote

Guy Send message Joined: 3 Apr 99 Posts: 1181 Credit: 3,467,968 RAC: 94	Message 1215579 - Posted: 8 Apr 2012, 9:54:36 UTC
	The example I used specifically referred to federal government jobs. But my point applies to all levels of government jobs. My point is, government employees get paid out of some fund generated by tax revenue. So, mathmatically, government employees are not self-sustainable. Government employees must be supported by the producers of the nation/state/county/city. Yes, I know more than income tax is removed from your paycheck. Yes, I know government jobs pay more than private sector jobs. Neither of these was my point. I get nauseated whenever I hear someone say raising taxes on the rich is good for the economy because it creates jobs. Head Scratcher #(n+1) http://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/apr/7/simmons-bill-cosby-weighs-trayvon-martin-case/ Is it the gun? Or the person carrying the gun?
	ID: 1215579 · Reply Quote

WinterKnight Volunteer tester Send message Joined: 18 May 99 Posts: 6786 Credit: 17,014,594 RAC: 29,700	Message 1215640 - Posted: 8 Apr 2012, 14:04:48 UTC - in response to Message 1215579.
	The example I used specifically referred to federal government jobs. But my point applies to all levels of government jobs. My point is, government employees get paid out of some fund generated by tax revenue. So, mathmatically, government employees are not self-sustainable. Government employees must be supported by the producers of the nation/state/county/city. Yes, I know more than income tax is removed from your paycheck. Yes, I know government jobs pay more than private sector jobs. Neither of these was my point. I get nauseated whenever I hear someone say raising taxes on the rich is good for the economy because it creates jobs. From the UK that looks like a strange comment. Here the government has decreased the highest rate of personal tax because they say the high rate was driving the rich away and it is the rich that own or invest in companies that create more jobs. And more jobs means more taxes collected for the government, therefore we need more rich people. Head Scratcher #(n+1) http://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/apr/7/simmons-bill-cosby-weighs-trayvon-martin-case/ Is it the gun? Or the person carrying the gun?
	ID: 1215640 · Reply Quote

skildude Send message Joined: 4 Oct 00 Posts: 8940 Credit: 36,324,739 RAC: 53,618	Message 1215657 - Posted: 8 Apr 2012, 14:54:42 UTC - in response to Message 1215579.
	Yes, I know more than income tax is removed from your paycheck. Yes, I know government jobs pay more than private sector jobs. Neither of these was my point. Thought you'd slip that one by didn't you? ONce again we get to point out that the only gov't jobs that pay better are the non degree jobs. ie Janitors and clerks. Any job that requires a degree gets paid substantially less as the degrees get higher. Don't make me pull out the statistics, again. Although I can clearly see your point is to confuse fact with fiction and create a sense of honesty in your statements when their is only falsehood Lets move on to another of your points I get nauseated whenever I hear someone say raising taxes on the rich is good for the economy because it creates jobs. I feel for you. Regardless on how nauseated you get it still doesn't refute the fact that when the rich pay more in taxes the nation does better as a whole. Since we are only talking about your nausea I say take some imodium and call your doctor in the morning. Once again I don't feel like parading out the multitude of colored graphs and charts to show that when the wealthy pay we all win. On that point. We are getting close to a decade on the welfare for the rich tax breaks named the Bush tax breaks... WHERE ARE THOSE DAMNED JOBS... We were promised paradise in a bottle and all we had to do was give the rich a whole bunch of money... This Idea wouldn't work when it was proposed during the depression, it wouldn't work when Republicans proposed it to Truman, It didn't work during the glorious Reagan/BushI years, and it still doesn't work now. I'm pretty certain it won't work in the future. Here is the reason why, Nothing in that tax break stipulates that the wealthy have to create a job one. If they don't have to do it they certainly won't. Lets look at this situation from a psychological standpoint. You now know that we have had multiple attempts and trials of the "tax the rich less" syndrome each time the proposal brought up was a disaster or it was shot down before it could do any harm. Yet Republicans keep espousing the same lines. If you continually try the same thing and always get the same results yet you expect different results... Hmmm what is that called.... Oh yeah, as a person that makes you dysfunctional. I guess a party can be the same as well. Quit expecting different results. It doesn't work it will never work because it is a flawed theory. The rich pretty much have everything they desire. More money just means buying a new home in the Hamptons or that new Yacht... hardly stimulates an economy don't you think. Now lets turn that theory on its head. Lets give those same tax breaks to the poor, working class and middle income people. What do you thing those 297+ million people(99%) would be doing with that money for the most part. I'm betting they'd be spending it on every day things like clothes, furniture, appliances, cars, and even computers. All these things put people to work and stimulate an economy. That's right producing every day consumer goods makes an economy roll. BUilding a yacht not so much. ____________ Proud member of TSWB. End terrorism by building a school
	ID: 1215657 · Reply Quote

Guy Send message Joined: 3 Apr 99 Posts: 1181 Credit: 3,467,968 RAC: 94	Message 1215662 - Posted: 8 Apr 2012, 15:28:46 UTC
	Well, since you're pulling me off my point, here's your proof: http://www.theattackdemocrat.com/2011/06/want-to-create-jobs-raise-taxes.html So let's go ahead and get it back up to 91%. I'm all for it. Proof is in the numbers. Apparently our mates across the pond don't feel the same way. Let's try to prove them wrong.
	ID: 1215662 · Reply Quote

Gary Charpentier Volunteer tester Send message Joined: 25 Dec 00 Posts: 10313 Credit: 5,062,053 RAC: 6,228	Message 1215667 - Posted: 8 Apr 2012, 15:38:38 UTC - in response to Message 1215657.
	WHERE ARE THOSE DAMNED JOBS They were absorbed by the social engineering that is the Community Reinvestment Act More money just means buying a new home in the Hamptons Construction workers, nice high paying jobs. clothes made in China furniture made in China appliances made in China cars Not made in Detroit computers made in China Perhaps he has a point ... ____________
	ID: 1215667 · Reply Quote

BarryAZ Send message Joined: 1 Apr 01 Posts: 2480 Credit: 7,387,530 RAC: 13,461	Message 1215696 - Posted: 8 Apr 2012, 17:34:56 UTC - in response to Message 1215667.
	Gary, Guy -- is there anyone here who doesn't believe the national and world economic environment hasn't changed in 20 to 30 years? Globalization means that a lot of work simply moves under world wide corporations to the places where it costs less. Recognizing that costs include factory investment, transportation and distribution -- to some degree local consumption helps local production, but only to some degree. So you noted Gary, a lot of domestic work has gone overseas. The thing is, with automation, there somewhat less work to go around anyway. What masked a lot of this shift in the past 20 years was domestic consumption -- driven by the long running housing bubble, the long running stock market rise, and the willingness of consumers to carry a lot of debt. When the bubble burst, consumer consumption, consumer willingness to carry debt, construction jobs and a number of other sectors went to hell. In 2008 (under Bush) and since then, the government (Federal only) did the debt thing to mitigate the reduction in consumer debt -- but consumer consumption was (and is) a much bigger factor. Also, the various state and local governments have contracted over that time as revenues declined and the need to balance year to year budgets constrained options there. Europe is confronting similar problems -- and finding that pushing for reduction of national government spending (a much larger portion of national GDP in Europe) means national economies contract (see Greece, Italy, Spain, Portugal, Ireland, etc.). Further to all that is the demographic issue of aging -- in all the developed world. This affects consumer consumption to some degree, the ability of governments to generate revenues, and a significant increase in health care costs (even in developed world countries that have a clue about health care -- it not the US). So why are folks surprised?
	ID: 1215696 · Reply Quote

Guy Send message Joined: 3 Apr 99 Posts: 1181 Credit: 3,467,968 RAC: 94	Message 1215803 - Posted: 8 Apr 2012, 20:32:14 UTC
	Just thought I might try agreeing once to see how it turned out.
	ID: 1215803 · Reply Quote

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