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Because the Christianity thingy does not work work for some of you.........
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kittyman Send message Joined: 9 Jul 00 Posts: 51468 Credit: 1,018,363,574 RAC: 1,004 |
Just golf, eh? I have no time for what some of you did to my last thread....... Just be the ball......no further comment, you are what you were. "Freedom is just Chaos, with better lighting." Alan Dean Foster |
kittyman Send message Joined: 9 Jul 00 Posts: 51468 Credit: 1,018,363,574 RAC: 1,004 |
All apologies accepted...... It's a sensitive subject, I know. You can't be faulted for not knowing what I know, or believing what I believe. Love you all for what you are or are not, my friends. I think Dylan once said it best.....or maybe Art Garfunkle or Paul Simon....dunno...right now. "All lies and jest, still...A man hears what he wants to hear.....and disregards the rest, la la la la." I do declare, there were some times I took some comfort there.... And, after changes, we are more or less the same. The kitties and I love you all for accepting me for what I may or may not be at times. What more could a man ask for, eh? "Freedom is just Chaos, with better lighting." Alan Dean Foster |
William Rothamel Send message Joined: 25 Oct 06 Posts: 3756 Credit: 1,999,735 RAC: 4 |
That's OK- No apologies needed. The Zeus thing didn't work for Socrates either. |
kittyman Send message Joined: 9 Jul 00 Posts: 51468 Credit: 1,018,363,574 RAC: 1,004 |
Oh, my. A couple of wonderful PMs sent my way. I do love you, my Seti friends. Soooooooooooo much. Best wishes and kitty kisses all around. When times get tough, you have all been such friends. I am quite humbled. You do not have to accept my theology to be kind, and you have shown that. Yes, the Lord does work in mysterious ways. And I know that. Black Mountain Rag....enjoy. "Freedom is just Chaos, with better lighting." Alan Dean Foster |
kittyman Send message Joined: 9 Jul 00 Posts: 51468 Credit: 1,018,363,574 RAC: 1,004 |
Now folks can see why I chose not to participate. Been round the block a few times. I've learnt not to go looking for trouble. I did not go out looking for trouble, just wanted to share my faith in God. I did not count on the bashing that would commence. My faith has not diminished. "Freedom is just Chaos, with better lighting." Alan Dean Foster |
BarryAZ Send message Joined: 1 Apr 01 Posts: 2580 Credit: 16,982,517 RAC: 0 |
I wouldn't expect to see your faith diminished. As to 'going out and looking for trouble' -- I'd suggest that open blogs (particularly open Political blogs) are a less than optimal target for sharing one's particular faith. I am a tad surprised that you were surprised at the reaction you got here. There are those who might look at 'sharing your faith in God' as quite close to proselytizing and that tends to get bashed.
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Matt Giwer Send message Joined: 21 May 00 Posts: 841 Credit: 990,879 RAC: 0 |
Christianity in a politics group is appropriate. Of course so is Judaism and Islam as all three spread by military force from a small beginning. And in all three cases became dominant locally because of conflict. Christianity differs from the other two in that it was local rioting and threat of civil war instead of overt military action. No matter what exists in unprovenanced religious tradition only Islam can claim records of an original religious impulse from one man who claimed to hear voices. We have a name for people like that. Oddly it is the first religion to make a clear, unambiguous assertion of monotheism with the simple declarative sentence, there is no god but god. There is a huge difference between "we believe in one god" and "we believe there is only one god." The Yahweh cult was established in Judea by winning the civil war after its sedition against and secession from the Seleucids and with the support of the Ptolemeys. The high priest Onias was the proximate cause. (See Josephus) It then conquered Idumae, Samaria and the Galilee and imposed its Yahweh cult practices on the losers. Christianity incited local conflict as though a Jerry Falwell called for destroying the churches of those who accepted evolution and Papists. The Christians condemned all "pagan" learning regardless of the subject. The surviving records of the council called by Constantine indicate only intense political pressure from Constantine without the least suggestion of divine guidance or inspiration. After only three years his successor Julian was murdered by his own family for not supporting Christianity. Despite all of this the religion of the people has never been the religion of the priests. A modern example is Santorum's adamantly anti-abortion and anti-birth control stance. That is position of the Catholic Church and is to garner the support of said church. At the same time some 80% of Catholic Americans support one or the other. The religion of Catholics is not the religion of the Catholic Church. Unvarnished Haaretz Jerusalem Post The origin of the Yahweh Cult |
bobby Send message Joined: 22 Mar 02 Posts: 2866 Credit: 17,789,109 RAC: 3 |
I can sympathise with Mark here because I think that he created the thread genuinely hoping for some sensible discussion. But I didn't have as much belief in some of the posters around that he did, and I knew how it was likely to turn out. And sadly it did. Believe it or not, I was also hoping for sensible discussion. I trust other posters will continue to answer questions about the statements they make here, just as you can trust that I will continue to ask questions. I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that ... |
Jim_S Send message Joined: 23 Feb 00 Posts: 4705 Credit: 64,560,357 RAC: 31 |
I can sympathise with Mark here because I think that he created the thread genuinely hoping for some sensible discussion. But I didn't have as much belief in some of the posters around that he did, and I knew how it was likely to turn out. And sadly it did. +1 I Desire Peace and Justice, Jim Scott (Mod-Ret.) |
kittyman Send message Joined: 9 Jul 00 Posts: 51468 Credit: 1,018,363,574 RAC: 1,004 |
And I'll get over it, friends. No problem. "Freedom is just Chaos, with better lighting." Alan Dean Foster |
Sarge Send message Joined: 25 Aug 99 Posts: 12273 Credit: 8,569,109 RAC: 79 |
Now folks can see why I chose not to participate. Been round the block a few times. I've learnt not to go looking for trouble. I think it was only 1 or 2 of the posters, (And in this thread, perhaps a new 1.) Personally, I would like to see your other thread re-opened, as I wished to respond to some of the more recent posts at the end. Namely, scimansteve's bit about Christianity being used to promote slavery. I really think the "all religion is good" (or, "everything about my religion is good") and "all religion is bad" stances are, bluntly put, dishonest. |
Lynn Send message Joined: 20 Nov 00 Posts: 14162 Credit: 79,603,650 RAC: 123 |
msattler, I also apologize for storming out of the original thread. I started a thread way back, http://setiathome.berkeley.edu/forum_thread.php?id=64134 Heaven May Be a 'Fairy Story' to Stephen Hawking, Not to Many Americans I feel like Pandora's Box, was opened in the thread. It was Hawking, that i was angry with. He flip-flops. All the best, Lynn |
kittyman Send message Joined: 9 Jul 00 Posts: 51468 Credit: 1,018,363,574 RAC: 1,004 |
msattler, No apologies needed......none warranted. Religion is a special thing that some people hold dear......and some certainly do not. Those who have it tend to uphold it, well, religiously. And those who do not tend to diss it most vehemently. Maybe my fault for trying to bring it up on a mostly scientific project's forums, after all, this is not a prayer group we got going here...LOL. Hawking should be pardoned for all he says......his mind is all that he has, as his body is trying to leave him. His scientific views have opened many horizons...and he is entitled to his opinion, even if it changes at times. Mine has been known to also. Your apology, well tendered is accepted, although not needed in the slightest. Glad to see you stuck around. "Freedom is just Chaos, with better lighting." Alan Dean Foster |
kittyman Send message Joined: 9 Jul 00 Posts: 51468 Credit: 1,018,363,574 RAC: 1,004 |
@Mark & Lynn I made the point in the original thread that I never expected everybody to join hands and sing Kumbaya....... I simply expected it to be more civil without the jousting and poking that ensued. I expected some negative responses from the many that unleash their tongues around here......especially when the thread got sent to 'politics'. Just wish some could have expressed their views on the subject without attacking those who they do not agree with. "Freedom is just Chaos, with better lighting." Alan Dean Foster |
W-K 666 Send message Joined: 18 May 99 Posts: 19014 Credit: 40,757,560 RAC: 67 |
msattler, As your original thread is closed I will point you to at least one American that does support the "Heaven May Be a 'Fairy Story" view in the book "A Universe from Nothing": Why There Is Something Rather than Nothing by Lawrence M. Krauss, Richard Dawkins Lawrence M. Krauss, a Canadian/American, is a professor at Arizona State University. Synopsis |
William Rothamel Send message Joined: 25 Oct 06 Posts: 3756 Credit: 1,999,735 RAC: 4 |
Did God come from nothing ? Was there an Uber-God who made our God. Was it the same one who made Zeus, Apollo and the seven ranks of Angels. Or perhaps these were fairy tales that adults could just not outgrow. Was there a competing Uber-God who made Satin (Lucifer?). Seems kind of silly doesn't it ?? Or maybe things just ARE--no beginning and no end. (Cogito ergo sum) Quantum particles come from nothing . The why and how make a good substitute for others' version of God. |
SciManStev Send message Joined: 20 Jun 99 Posts: 6651 Credit: 121,090,076 RAC: 0 |
It does seem that There was a man called Lucrecious who died around 45 BC. He thought that there were no Gods. The church priests were heavily corrupt, and thought only of having sex, and wealth. He said the Gods, if they existed, didn't care about sacrifice or anything human at all, as they had their own problems. That was an example of the world behaving exactly as it would with no God at all. He also said something very interesting. That matter was made up of tiny unseen particles. In 45 BC, he came out with the existence of atoms. He was known as brilliant back then, and if he had been born today, he may have become the next Hawking. Steve Warning, addicted to SETI crunching! Crunching as a member of GPU Users Group. GPUUG Website |
Lynn Send message Joined: 20 Nov 00 Posts: 14162 Credit: 79,603,650 RAC: 123 |
msattler, I have one of his lectures, on dvd. Is he right or wrong?? Just going to take a humble approach to the mystery. A Universe from Nothing, famed astrophysicist Lawrence M. Krauss claims to have shown why the latest physics proves that God is not necessary to explain the universe’s existence and features. He asserts that the universe came from “nothing†rather than from God. However, the different “nothings†that Krauss appeals to for his explanations are really “some thingsâ€â€”“some things†that demand nothing less than the existence and involvement of the biblical God. Sorry, there is still a big question mark about the universe’s existence?? My mind just can't get pass nothing into something. There had to be something before. I really hope scientist can take out the word God. The God particle. Then we will know the mind of God. Sorry, all of the above need to go. |
Lynn Send message Joined: 20 Nov 00 Posts: 14162 Credit: 79,603,650 RAC: 123 |
msattler, Thanks for accepting my apology. It was needed. Great, i agree with you on Hawking. Did you see him on the sitcom, "The Big Bang Theory"? I've had enough God talk to last a lifetime. Let this be the end. My heart tells me one thing. All the best to everyone! Lynn |
kittyman Send message Joined: 9 Jul 00 Posts: 51468 Credit: 1,018,363,574 RAC: 1,004 |
Lynn......my heart tells me one thing too. This is Easter Sunday. He has risen. We are saved. Glorious, don't you think? "Freedom is just Chaos, with better lighting." Alan Dean Foster |
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