Camerons First Term


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Profile John Clark
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Message 1212760 - Posted: 1 Apr 2012, 9:30:46 UTC
Last modified: 1 Apr 2012, 9:31:57 UTC

There are honest politicians who are there to help and improve (if they can), but, on anecdotal comment and recent evidence, I am generally inclined to agree with you Sirius.

Now time to get up and take the dogs for a couple of mile walk in this glorious weather, then read the Sunday paper (The Times).
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Message 1212761 - Posted: 1 Apr 2012, 9:43:37 UTC

OK, I admit it, I'm prejudiced! Show me an honest, reliable & trustworthy politician & I'll show you a liar.


so that they can sit back with their fat King Edward's after their caviar & chips luncheon, followed by coffee in the "Grand Room".

Firstly, smoking has been banned since July 2007 in all internal areas of the House of Commons estate, including in bars and private offices. Secondly, what evidence to you have that any politician, MP or Minister, smokes cigars anyehere? As far as I know Caviar is not on the Dining room menu at the Houses of Parliament, unless you know otherwise? Thirdly there is also no "Grand room" at either Westminster or Downing Street.

You cannot expect anyone to take your views seriously if you continue to make outrageous, patently untrue, and quite frankly just silly, statements like those. The last politician famous for large cigars was Sir Winston Churchill, so I suppose he was useless and untrustworthy in you view as well?

Holding the views of Politics and politicians that you do, I hope that you don't intend to vote in any future local or National elections, else you would be laying yourself open to hypocrisy.

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Message 1212765 - Posted: 1 Apr 2012, 9:55:50 UTC - in response to Message 1212761.

Christ almighty, you never heard of lampooning? I suggest you check back into English history, also history of the press & you will see countless instances of said lampooning. English politicians were famous for being constantly lampooned.

Or is it that now that you are "inside" said establishment, you are going the way of many English? Hate having your country/system/people lampooned? If so, how sad!
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Message 1212787 - Posted: 1 Apr 2012, 11:53:07 UTC

Lampooning politicians, or in other words the the glorious observations of some of our most famous cartoonists are a lovely British institution from the early days of Punch, that should long continue. Mac from the Mail is particularly good. I'm sorry, I don't think that your observations are lampooning, they are more generally misinformed, gleaned from the press, and as John said, showing your prejudices.

The petrol panic this week was caused mainly by the press with lurid front page headlines.

Express
Thursday - "Pumps run dry in petrol panic"
Friday - "Time to stop petrol panic"

Mail
Tuesday - "Held to ransom by 1000 tanker drivers"
Wednesday - "Petrol: No.10 fuels panic"
Thursday - "Pasties, petrol and the politics of panic"
Friday - Pandemonium at the pumps"

Most people drive around with a 1/3 full tank, in the event of a strike it would have bit in about 3 days. With people now driving around with mainly full tanks any strike would take 2 weeks to bite. That information was from the BBC website. The advice to store extra fuel at home in jerry-cans was generally unhelpful. Many people do store petrol at home in small amounts, e.g.those with petrol lawnmowers and boats with outboard engines. But those that do so regularly, are well aware of the safety rules that need to be followed. Storage to be in secure metal canisters, and decanting and topping up to be done in a well ventilated area or preferably in the open air.

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Message 1212815 - Posted: 1 Apr 2012, 14:34:47 UTC - in response to Message 1212787.

So what you are saying is that those ministers did not make those comments? However, Whitehall sources state that they were made.

We all know that there are naive & gullible people out there & these "leaders" are supposed to be highly educated, so where was their common sense?

People like me either lampoon them and/or make comments regarding their fitness to lead & we're labelled "prejudiced"

Whatever next?
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Message 1212821 - Posted: 1 Apr 2012, 15:29:24 UTC
Last modified: 1 Apr 2012, 16:00:30 UTC

I think the situation could perhaps have been handled a little better, but William Hagues comments are quite relevant. Whatever the Government did they would have been criticised. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

Hague

The Labour Party of course is struggling to make political capital out of it all, never mind the effects upon the country.

Now, you're obviously an intelligent chap, "We all know that there are naive & gullible people out there". Exactly, and far too many, as I have commented upon in other education threads. But the truth is the press used that situation to whip up a frenzy to sell newspapers, and people went for it, big time.

But at the end of the day, has it all made people more aware of the impending difficulties that a fuel strike could cause, has it made the country more prepared to be resilient in that eventuality, was it worth a little bit of pain in the early days to avoid a lot more later.

I'll leave you to decide.

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Message 1212845 - Posted: 1 Apr 2012, 16:17:12 UTC - in response to Message 1212821.
Last modified: 1 Apr 2012, 16:17:34 UTC

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.


Quite agree. Which is why I stated in a previous post "Politicians" rather than highlight any particular party.

All 3 are just as bad as each other - forgo common sense just to score points off each other rather than actually doing the job they're paid to do.

Any type of fuel can be extremely dangerous if mis-handled & as so called leaders should have shown more responsibility than what was shown.
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Message 1212866 - Posted: 1 Apr 2012, 16:46:08 UTC - in response to Message 1212750.

Don't blame the Government for something they foolishly say. Blame all the short sighted idiots that went and jammed up the fuel stations and caused the panic.

It's about time people took responsibility for them selves and their individual and collective actions.

They will be blaming the woman who set herself on fire when she decanted petrol from one open container to another next to a running gas cooker. I am sorry she suffered 40% burns, but no knowledge of the volatility of petrol is no defence in life and it's consequences.


Johnny, my feelings too....



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Message 1212897 - Posted: 1 Apr 2012, 17:43:11 UTC

It's about time people took responsibility for them selves and their individual and collective actions.


But they won't because today's parents won't instil it into their kids, and schools won't teach it. So what do you do......

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Message 1212904 - Posted: 1 Apr 2012, 17:55:28 UTC - in response to Message 1212897.

It's about time people took responsibility for them selves and their individual and collective actions.


But they won't because today's parents won't instil it into their kids, and schools won't teach it. So what do you do......



God, don't tempt me on this one....I'd get banned!!



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Profile Chris SProject donor
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Message 1212909 - Posted: 1 Apr 2012, 18:03:25 UTC
Last modified: 1 Apr 2012, 18:08:49 UTC

God, don't tempt me on this one....I'd get banned!!


I've been pretty forthright in many threads about today's useless parents, and ineffectual education. Not been banned yet. Provided you talk sensibly it is OK to say what you think. But perhaps not in this thread please, this about the UK Government.

Give me a PM.

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Message 1212970 - Posted: 1 Apr 2012, 20:49:00 UTC - in response to Message 1212909.

God, don't tempt me on this one....I'd get banned!!


I've been pretty forthright in many threads about today's useless parents, and ineffectual education. Not been banned yet. Provided you talk sensibly it is OK to say what you think. But perhaps not in this thread please, this about the UK Government.

Give me a PM.


Ah but if the current & past governments hadn't eroded education standards, we wouldn't be in the mess we are in today. Now that chicken has come home to roost, the prevaling attitude is to blame the parents.

Wasn't it those parents who had their education destroyed?
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Message 1212973 - Posted: 1 Apr 2012, 20:54:25 UTC
Last modified: 1 Apr 2012, 20:56:34 UTC

Years ago I had a row with a Labour politician about Grammar schools and education standards.

My main point was I was not going to jeopardize my childrens education for Educational Political dogma.


Regarding increasing educational attainment reported year after year.

Remember GCE "O" Levels, and the parallel exam of GCSEs?

A good attainment in GCSE of A through to C was considered to be the equivalent of a scrape pass in GCE O Level.

Where is the actual improvement gone then, when GCSEs replaced GCE O Levels way back during 1988 approximately?
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Message 1212976 - Posted: 1 Apr 2012, 20:57:30 UTC - in response to Message 1212973.

Interesting, here in the states, that argument might just as well be with Teapublicans who seem to think that creationism is science.



Years ago I had a row with a Labour politician about Grammar schools and education standards.


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Message 1212977 - Posted: 1 Apr 2012, 20:57:52 UTC - in response to Message 1212973.

Years ago I had a row with a Labour politician about Grammar schools and education standards.

My main point was I was not going to jeopardize my childrens education for Educational Political dogma.


Regarding increasing educational attainment reported year after year.

Remember GCE "O" Levels, and the parallel exam of GCSEs?

A good attainment in GCSE of A through to C was considered to be the equivalent of a scrape pass in GCE O Level.

Where is the actual improvement gone then?



What? You mean my 5 "O's" (all b's) & 2 GCE's (1xb & 1xc) are now the equivalent of GCSE e's?

Damn, why did I bother going to school!
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Message 1212979 - Posted: 1 Apr 2012, 21:01:33 UTC - in response to Message 1212977.

What? You mean my 5 "O's" (all b's) & 2 GCE's (1xb & 1xc) are now the equivalent of GCSE e's?


Actually those 16 year old academic qualifications are now likely to be the equivalent of a pass degree from one of the new Universities (or Unis).
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Message 1212988 - Posted: 1 Apr 2012, 21:12:25 UTC

Now showing on the BBC news.....

The coalition government stated on their election trail that they would reduce the "big brother" as it was too much.....

turnabout time.....

New laws to monitor web use & other tech comms

typical muppets....totally mallable!


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Message 1213141 - Posted: 2 Apr 2012, 6:52:18 UTC - in response to Message 1212909.
Last modified: 2 Apr 2012, 6:52:41 UTC

God, don't tempt me on this one....I'd get banned!!


I've been pretty forthright in many threads about today's useless parents, and ineffectual education. Not been banned yet. Provided you talk sensibly it is OK to say what you think. But perhaps not in this thread please, this about the UK Government.

Give me a PM.


Offer graciously declined Chris, there are more fruitful topics worthy of
discussion here that will keep me in a more melancholy frame of mind.
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Message 1213203 - Posted: 2 Apr 2012, 14:27:26 UTC
Last modified: 2 Apr 2012, 14:27:48 UTC

Getting back to Cameron, I see the current Private Eye (#1310) has the following:

Private Eye wrote:
"It is hard to believe that we need government regulations on issues such as ice cream van musical jingles," wrote David Cameron to ministers at the launch of his Red Tape Challenge last April, promising to cut burdensome regulations.

So it's reassuring to see the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs has now launched a 24-page survey, consulting on the "code of practice on noise from ice cream van chimes etc" to be filled in by any interested parties in the food and environmental health sector who can be bothered.

The consultation lists a number of ways the code could be tinkered with - including allowing a slight increase in the maximum length of musical chimes to 12 seconds and permitting slightly later chiming (based on anecdotal evidence that children now go to bed after 7pm) as well as widening the rules slightly to allow some other sellers of "perishable food" to use chimes. All very interesting... but, alas, none of the options in the consultation actually proposes getting rid of a single regulation.


And if anybody thinks a 24-page consultation document on ice cream van chimes might be an April Fool, here's the link http://www.defra.gov.uk/consult/files/ice-cream-van-condoc-120308.pdf. The document does include an option to scrap the code entirely, though states that this option is not the preferred choice of industry.
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Message 1213222 - Posted: 2 Apr 2012, 16:09:32 UTC
Last modified: 2 Apr 2012, 16:17:35 UTC

On the face of it Cameron made a very succinct observation.

It is hard to believe that we need government regulations on issues such as ice cream van musical jingles,"

But it needs to be appreciated what exactly Codes of Practice are.

Approved Codes of Practice give practical guidance on compliance. Failure to comply with an Approved Code of Practice is not an offence in itself. However, these codes have special legal status. If an employer/individual faces criminal prosecution under health and safety law, and it is proved that the advice of the Approved Code of Practice has not been followed, a court can regard it as evidence of guilt unless it is satisfied that the employer/individual has complied with the law in some other way. Following Approved Codes of Practice is therefore regarded as best practice.

For some years I was the Specifying and Approval Engineer for Access and Personal Safety Equipment for a large UK Company. Consequently I represented my company on various British Standard Technical Committees helping to draft and publish various National Standards. We also contributed to various Codes of Practice. When I left that role, harmonisation with the European EN's was just coming in.

There were so many public complaints against unlicenced ice cream vans and the noise that they made, and the unsocial hours within which many operated, that a Code of Practice was issued to combat that. It is not exactly "Government Regulations" Cameron wasn't quite correct, and as per usual, Ian Hislop & co are having their irreverent bit of fun.

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