Square Kilometer Array Radio Telescope

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Profile Byron Leigh Hatch @ team Carl Sagan
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Message 1205246 - Posted: 12 Mar 2012, 20:32:38 UTC

Hello fellow SETI@home cruncher

What do you think about the following :-) ???

South Africa Wins scientific Panel's Backing to Host Square Kilometer Array Scope

By Geoff Brumfiel and Nature magazine | March 12, 2012

The telescope is so sensitive that it could even pick up television signals

from distant worlds —

something that might aid in the search for extraterrestrial intelligence



A scientific panel has narrowly recommended South Africa over Australia as the best site for the proposed Square Kilometre Array (SKA), an enormous radio telescope (see "Astronomy in South Africa: The long shot"). But the project's member states have yet to make a final decision on where the telescope will go.

The SKA Site Advisory Committee's decision was first reported on March 10 in the Sydney Morning Herald. A source familiar with the site-selection process confirmed to Nature that the panel had indeed made a decision, but added that it was a close call. "This is not an enormous preference for one over the other," he says. (Scientific American is part of Nature Publishing Group.)

The $2.1-billion SKA radio telescope will be made up of some 3,000 dishes, each 15 meters in diameter. The project will try to answer big questions about the early universe: how the first elements heavier than helium formed, for example, and how the first galaxies coalesced. The telescope is so sensitive that it could even pick up television signals from distant worlds—something that might aid in the search for extraterrestrial intelligence

Since 2006, South Africa has competed against a joint bid from Australia and New Zealand to host the project. The South African site has some compelling advantages: construction costs are lower, and it sits at a higher altitude. But the Australian site would be cheaper to insure, and is less likely to be encroached on by future development. The margin in favour of the winner was extremely narrow, the source says.

Members of the SKA's board will meet on March 19 in Manchester, UK, to discuss the scientific panel's recommendations. The closed meeting will also provide the two bidders with the opportunity to contest any of the panel's recommendations. After the meeting, the SKA's board will write a commentary to accompany the recommendation, which will inform the final decision.

According to Nature's source, because the two sites are so close in merit, both are still in contention. China, Italy, the United Kingdom and the Netherlands—the SKA voting board members—could yet decide either way. It is even possible that the array could be shared between both nations, although this would probably increase the construction costs.

A final site decision could come as soon as April 4, when a meeting of the board is tentatively scheduled in Amsterdam.

Read more here:

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=south-africa-wins-panels
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=south-africa-wins-panels

or here:

Square Kilometer Array
http://www.skatelescope.org/

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Profile Byron Leigh Hatch @ team Carl Sagan
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Message 1205262 - Posted: 12 Mar 2012, 21:38:10 UTC
Last modified: 12 Mar 2012, 21:48:20 UTC

<Edit title>

The Radio telescope is so sensitive that it could even pick up television signals

from distant worlds —

something that might aid in the search for extraterrestrial intelligence

</Edit title>

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Message 1205317 - Posted: 13 Mar 2012, 2:24:47 UTC

Looks like it will make the VLA seem like a backyard toy in comparison. Now let's just hope some alien civilization is beaming something our way.


Bob DeWoody

My motto: Never do today what you can put off until tomorrow as it may not be required. This no longer applies in light of current events.

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Profile William Rothamel
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Message 1205318 - Posted: 13 Mar 2012, 2:28:00 UTC

The Radio telescope is so sensitive that it could even pick up television signals

from distant worlds —


From how far away ?

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Profile Michel448a
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Message 1205329 - Posted: 13 Mar 2012, 3:24:09 UTC

sweet maybe we will get better TV shows :)

Sci Fi TV Shows :)


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Profile Byron Leigh Hatch @ team Carl Sagan
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Message 1205354 - Posted: 13 Mar 2012, 4:56:07 UTC - in response to Message 1205318.

The Radio telescope is so sensitive that it could even pick up television signals

from distant worlds —


From how far away ?

Good question!

any one got any Ideas ???

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Profile Byron Leigh Hatch @ team Carl Sagan
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Message 1205365 - Posted: 13 Mar 2012, 5:17:50 UTC - in response to Message 1205318.
Last modified: 13 Mar 2012, 6:14:21 UTC

The Radio telescope is so sensitive that it could even pick up television signals

from distant worlds —


From how far away ?

Good question!

on the Square Kilometer Array Radio telescope web site:

Square Kilometer Array
http://www.skatelescope.org/

they have a web page where you can ask a question:

http://www.skatelescope.org/contact/question/

So I asked the following question:

It is said that the Square Kilometer Array Radio Telescope is so sensitive that it could even pick up television signals from distant worlds.

What is the farthest distant away in Light years would these distant worlds be ?

I'll report back here when they send me an answer.

<Edit>
an other question I'm going to ask is:

It is said that the ... $2.1 ... Billion Dollar Square Kilometer Array Radio Telescope will be made up of some 3,000 dishes, each 15 meters in diameter.

when is the estimated completion Date ?

</Edit>

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Profile Byron Leigh Hatch @ team Carl Sagan
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Message 1205394 - Posted: 13 Mar 2012, 8:32:06 UTC - in response to Message 1205365.

to answer one of my own question, I found the following:

for the: Two Billion Dollar Square Kilometer Array Radio Telescope


  • The project timeline

  • 1991 Concept
  • 2006 Short listing of suitable sites
  • 2008-12 Telescope system design and cost
  • 2011 Establish SKA organisation as a legal entity
  • 2012 Site selection
  • 2013-15 Detailed design and pre-construction phase
  • 2016-19 Phase 1 construction
  • 2018-23 Phase 2 construction
  • 2020 Full science operations with Phase 1
  • 2024 Full science operations with Phase 2



  • Facts and figures

  • The SKA central computer will have the processing power of about 1 billion PCs.
  • The SKA will use enough optical fibre to wrap twice around the Earth!
  • The dishes of the SKA will produce 10 times the global internet traffic.
  • The aperture arrays in the SKA could produce more than 100 times the global internet traffic.
  • The SKA will generate enough raw data to fill 15 million 64 GB iPods every day!
  • The SKA super computer will perform 1018 operations per second – equivalent to the number of stars in three million Milky Way galaxies
  • in order to process all the data that the SKA will produce.
  • The SKA will be so sensitive that it will be able to detect an airport radar on a planet 50 light years away.
  • The SKA will contain thousands of antennas with a combined collecting area of about one square kilometre (that’s 1,000,000 square metres!). .


Read More here:

Square Kilometer Array
http://www.skatelescope.org/

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Message 1205396 - Posted: 13 Mar 2012, 8:45:47 UTC - in response to Message 1205318.

The Radio telescope is so sensitive that it could even pick up television signals
from distant worlds —

From how far away ?

Good question!

I found the following on their Square Kilometer Array Radio Telescope web site


The Square Kilometer Array Radio Telescope will be so sensitive
that it will be able to detect an airport radar on a planet 50 light years away.



also I asked the following question on their web site:

What is the farthest distant away in Light years could these
television signals from distant worlds distant worlds be detected here on on Earth ?


I will report back here when I get a response from them.

Read More here:

Square Kilometer Array
http://www.skatelescope.org/

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Profile Michel448a
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Message 1205405 - Posted: 13 Mar 2012, 9:06:52 UTC

THANKS YOU Byron


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Profile John Neale
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Message 1205446 - Posted: 13 Mar 2012, 14:07:43 UTC

As the resident South African on these boards, may I say that we are hopeful that the SKA board will follow the scientific panel's recommendation and award the project to South Africa. It would mean a lot for scientific development in South Africa.

Here's a link to the SKA South Africa project website.


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Message 1205462 - Posted: 13 Mar 2012, 15:08:09 UTC

The telescope is so sensitive that it could even pick up television signals from distant worlds


Fantastic !!! No more crap Channel 4 in the UK.

Gets my vote!
Those are my principles, and if you don't like them ... well, I have others.
Groucho Marx 1895-1977

I also have mine, and if you don't like them ... tough, live with it.
Chris S 2016

Member of UCB Charter Hill Society

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Message 1205528 - Posted: 13 Mar 2012, 22:21:58 UTC - in response to Message 1205462.

The telescope is so sensitive that it could even pick up television signals from distant worlds


Fantastic !!! No more crap Channel 4 in the UK.

Gets my vote!


For the alien TV signal to be discernible from the background white noise
it's initial radiated power would have to have been in the tetra watts range.
This power output level is possible but highly unlikely unless the alien TV
station needed to transmit at these high power levels say to cover a very large
planetary area/distance. So, it would only be a planet many times bigger than
Earth that would require this high level of power output and then directed
to outer space for it to reach us.




The Kite Fliers

--------------------
Kite fliers: An imaginary club of solo members, those who don't yet
belong to a formal team so "fly their own kites" - as the saying goes.

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Message 1205596 - Posted: 14 Mar 2012, 0:04:55 UTC
Last modified: 14 Mar 2012, 0:20:32 UTC




I found the following on their Square Kilometer Array Radio Telescope web site

The Square Kilometer Array Radio Telescope will be so sensitive
that it will be able to detect an airport radar on a planet 50 light years away.


they have a web page where you can ask a question about the SKA Radio Telescope

here: http://www.skatelescope.org/contact/question/

for the: Two Billion Dollar Square Kilometer Array Radio Telescope


  • The project timeline

  • 1991 Concept
  • 2006 Short listing of suitable sites
  • 2008-12 Telescope system design and cost
  • 2011 Establish SKA organisation as a legal entity
  • 2012 Site selection
  • 2013-15 Detailed design and pre-construction phase
  • 2016-19 Phase 1 construction
  • 2018-23 Phase 2 construction
  • 2020 Full science operations with Phase 1
  • 2024 Full science operations with Phase 2



  • Facts and figures

  • The SKA central computer will have the processing power of about 1 billion PCs.
  • The SKA will use enough optical fibre to wrap twice around the Earth!
  • The dishes of the SKA will produce 10 times the global internet traffic.
  • The aperture arrays in the SKA could produce more than 100 times the global internet traffic.
  • The SKA will generate enough raw data to fill 15 million 64 GB iPods every day!
  • The SKA super computer will perform 1018 operations per second – equivalent to the number of stars in three million Milky Way galaxies
  • in order to process all the data that the SKA will produce.
  • The SKA will be so sensitive that it will be able to detect an airport radar on a planet 50 light years away.
  • The SKA will contain thousands of antennas with a combined collecting area of about one square kilometre (that’s 1,000,000 square metres!). .


Read More here:

Square Kilometer Array
http://www.skatelescope.org/

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Message 1205666 - Posted: 14 Mar 2012, 4:55:21 UTC - in response to Message 1205596.

Wow, the SKA super computer will perform 1018 operations per second. Couple of those working together should be able to match my pocket calculator

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Message 1205690 - Posted: 14 Mar 2012, 6:32:13 UTC - in response to Message 1205666.
Last modified: 14 Mar 2012, 7:25:56 UTC

Opps sorry typo there on my part ...


Hi Kafo

thank you for pointing out my typo in my post 1205596

Kafo wrote the following:

Wow, the SKA super computer will perform 1018 operations per second. Couple of those working together should be able to match my pocket calculator

Opps sorry typo there ...

that should have read:

The SKA super computer will perform - 10 to the 18th power - which = Just added 18 zeroes so it would be:

1,000,000,000,000,000,000 operations per second

equivalent to the number of stars in three million Milky Way galaxies

in order to process all the data that the SKA will produce.

See this web page for Facts and figures about the Square Kilometer Array Radio Telescope:

http://www.skatelescope.org/about/facts-figures/

so I guess that would be a little faster than your pocket calculator you think ??? __ LOL __ ;-)

Best Wishes
Byron

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Message 1205771 - Posted: 14 Mar 2012, 14:11:09 UTC
Last modified: 14 Mar 2012, 14:53:36 UTC

Using the claim that the SKA could detect an airport radar at 50 light years, the range of detectability of television signals is deducible. Air Traffic Control radars are reported to have on the order of 100 kilowatts, effective radiated power. Our own analog VHF television transmitters had effective radiated powers up to about 300 KW, giving a range of more than 50, but less than 100 light years. Analog UHF television transmitters had ERPs of up to 5000 KW, which would give a comparative range of somewhere between 300 and 400 light years. While the existence of such signals might be detectable, it's not likely that the content could be discerned. Michael

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Message 1205815 - Posted: 14 Mar 2012, 16:24:23 UTC - in response to Message 1205771.

Dear Michael,

Thank you for that information.

Best Wishes
Byron

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Message 1206275 - Posted: 15 Mar 2012, 21:10:07 UTC - in response to Message 1205771.
Last modified: 15 Mar 2012, 21:20:21 UTC

...
snip
...

Analog UHF television transmitters had ERPs of up to 5000 KW,

which would give a comparative range of somewhere between 300 and 400 light years.

While the existence of such signals might be detectable,

it's not likely that the content could be discerned.

Michael

hi Michael,

I'm sorry if this is a dumb question but ...

do you mean that we could not decode or understand the signals from between 300 and 400 light years away ...

but could we conclude that the signals are from an extra terrestrial intelligence ?

and not just some random noise or static ?

I'm sorry if I'm not making my self clear ?

Byron

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Message 1206375 - Posted: 16 Mar 2012, 2:59:40 UTC - in response to Message 1206275.

We should be able to tell if they contain intelligence. Decoding might be a problem but then we found the Rosetta stone.

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