Message boards :
Politics :
American Civil Rights - Do They Really Exist?
Message board moderation
Author | Message |
---|---|
Sirius B Send message Joined: 26 Dec 00 Posts: 24877 Credit: 3,081,182 RAC: 7 |
This is a disgrace! What excuses will the yanks on here give? UK Pensioner shackled for 23 hours out of every 24 I'm pretty damned sure that some bhl will post about the "Rule of Law"... Will they prove me wrong by refraining from posting as they know that this is an absolute digrace. Personally, I think that the "special relationship" between the US & the UK should now end! |
BarryAZ Send message Joined: 1 Apr 01 Posts: 2580 Credit: 16,982,517 RAC: 0 |
One question -- he was extradited -- did the UK know he'd get this treatment? If so, they could have denied the *request* from the US. As to American Civil Rights -- well, look at the Patriot Act -- not the best representation of Civil Rights for sure... By the way, not *shackled* -- confined. There is a difference. |
Sirius B Send message Joined: 26 Dec 00 Posts: 24877 Credit: 3,081,182 RAC: 7 |
American Double Standards! Anyone know American corporate history? Here's a reminder..... I.T & T IBM Standard Oil US Government aware own companies dealing with enemies CIA & Bay of Pigs Are you all really that arrogant? Whatever happened to Innocent until proven guilty? "US Federal prosecutors stated that he will be a danger to the community if released on bail" [Are you all really that weak & insecure? |
Sirius B Send message Joined: 26 Dec 00 Posts: 24877 Credit: 3,081,182 RAC: 7 |
One question -- he was extradited -- did the UK know he'd get this treatment? If so, they could have denied the *request* from the US. The UK government were aware after what happened to the Nat West people, yet they still kiss your asses..... About time that stopped! |
Gary Charpentier Send message Joined: 25 Dec 00 Posts: 30608 Credit: 53,134,872 RAC: 32 |
"US Federal prosecutors stated that he will be a danger to the community if released on bail" Judge:"He is a flight risk." Is he a flight risk? Did he have to be extradited or did he come voluntarily? Considering the charges he isn't really fit to be in the general population of prisoners if he wants a long life span, about the same as a child molester to the rest of the prison. Yes, the prisons in the USA are so overcrowded that the safety of the prisoners can not be maintained. |
Sirius B Send message Joined: 26 Dec 00 Posts: 24877 Credit: 3,081,182 RAC: 7 |
Terrorist has more rights "'I won't be given leave to get any of my witnesses who are based in the UK because they are not allowed to testify in America by virtue of the fact they do not allow video interrogation. They have to appear personally. 'Unfortunately they will not appear in America so I don't know. I have certainly got enough facts to support my case but without the witnesses, their testimony, it's going to be very difficult. 'If I wanted anything, it was to be tried in the UK, not in America, because the Americans have never had to produce one piece of evidence.All the evidence shown to the court so far has come from our side. 'They have not had to produce any evidence whatsoever. We believe there is no evidence ... it's just an accusation. 'By virtue of an accusation they are allowed to extradite people from one country to another." He said this "seems ridiculous and a disgrace to our country". This says it all! Nice justice system you have! |
Sirius B Send message Joined: 26 Dec 00 Posts: 24877 Credit: 3,081,182 RAC: 7 |
Sorry Sirius, it's what we keep voting for. (not me personally, but "we" as a nation...) No problem Guy. Don't get me wrong though, I'm not knocking the US, in fact I enjoyed working with your armed forces in Germany - terrific guys (& gals). It just seems to me & possibly many others that America seems to have lost her way as the leading light in many areas of life. If she eventually falls, god help the rest of the world. All i can see at the moment is that as there is no real external threat (excluding terrorism), many in the system seem to be manufacturing work for their departments - unfortunately, that seems to be the fact of life now in all western societys. |
Sirius B Send message Joined: 26 Dec 00 Posts: 24877 Credit: 3,081,182 RAC: 7 |
With the links already posted, together with the following link, that makes it a scandal every 2 decades - SO, are we to expect one for the 2000's? Irangate BTW, isn't the Hawk system obsolete? |
skildude Send message Joined: 4 Oct 00 Posts: 9541 Credit: 50,759,529 RAC: 60 |
He's 62 and in a county jail in a high drug crime area. So he's in jail with what are most likely Hispanic men who would like nothing better to beat on a white man that looks like the judge that put them in jail. I think he's safer than he thinks. If I were there, I'd punch a guard to assure I got solitary. Solitary sure beats a 20 man ass whipping that he'd be sure to get if he were in general population In a rich man's house there is no place to spit but his face. Diogenes Of Sinope |
Gary Charpentier Send message Joined: 25 Dec 00 Posts: 30608 Credit: 53,134,872 RAC: 32 |
"'I won't be given leave to get any of my witnesses who are based in the UK because they are not allowed to testify in America by virtue of the fact they do not allow video interrogation. They have to appear personally. Right to FACE your accuser. Same goes the other way. Since the first day of America. And how can a person in another country be administered a binding oath to testify? Or is it all his alleged witnesses have arrest warrants in the USA? Or did he choose to spend every dime he had on trying to stay in England and didn't save for plane tickets for his alleged witnesses to get him off? Is that malpractice? 'By virtue of an accusation they are allowed to extradite people from one country to another." Isn't every criminal complaint an accusation? This says it all! Nice justice system you have! Yes it is. It is English common law after all. This guy's barrister spins a nice SOB story. |
Sirius B Send message Joined: 26 Dec 00 Posts: 24877 Credit: 3,081,182 RAC: 7 |
Isn't every criminal complaint an accusation? So it's now guilty until proven innocent? you'd better change all the US flags that fly & put another star on them.... ...UK now the 51st state of the US of A! Not allowed books or even a clock? Convicted already then I see..... "prosecutors refused to show statements" Wonder why? Have they shown it to the defence counsel? Ooops, not allowed to defend himself, so what are you hiding? sure it's not your CIA or other bloated agencies looking for a scapegoat? That wouldn't surprise me one iota! Chris Tappin Latest |
Gary Charpentier Send message Joined: 25 Dec 00 Posts: 30608 Credit: 53,134,872 RAC: 32 |
Not allowed books or even a clock? What did he do to get thrown in solitary? Spit on a guard? Seriously, when anyone first goes into jail the jail has to classify them. Is the person going to "go along with the program" or are they going to be a "problem." Until the jail decides they err on the side of making sure they don't get hurt and treat them as the worst possible "problem." Now he has been classified and he has his cell and cellmates. As long as he keeps his nose clean, he won't be back in the hole. Evidence. Once he obtains an attorney, licensed to practice in the Federal Bar, then discovery can proceed. His barrister isn't licensed and can't represent him. As he was indicted, there won't be a preliminary hearing to determine if there is sufficient evidence to present to a jury. He had a bail hearing and can petition for more. He probably hasn't been formally arraigned yet as he doesn't seem to have a lawyer. I'm sure the court is trying to find out if he is indigent and due a public defender. Once he has a lawyer things will begin to move forward. Until then it is a waiting game. |
Bob DeWoody Send message Joined: 9 May 10 Posts: 3387 Credit: 4,182,900 RAC: 10 |
From what I just read Mr. Tappin requested to be kept in isolation and all the accusations about how he is being treated are based on second hand stories. I wouldn't make claims about "American" civil rights based on how one case is being handled. Bob DeWoody My motto: Never do today what you can put off until tomorrow as it may not be required. This no longer applies in light of current events. |
Nick Send message Joined: 11 Oct 11 Posts: 4344 Credit: 3,313,107 RAC: 0 |
Going by the amount of British subjects being extradited to the USA would it not be simpler if the USA had their own court set-up in the UK? The Kite Fliers -------------------- Kite fliers: An imaginary club of solo members, those who don't yet belong to a formal team so "fly their own kites" - as the saying goes. |
bobby Send message Joined: 22 Mar 02 Posts: 2866 Credit: 17,789,109 RAC: 3 |
It would have no international legal rights to try British subjects upon USA foreign soil. And quite rightly so. Not sure of the legalities (Gitmo suggests to me that the US can try foreign nationals on USA foreign soil), though there are practical considerations. One has to be a citizen of the US in order to be a juror in a US court, the pool would be severely limited if the US were to establish an overseas system of civil courts, or the demands on jurors would be substantially greater. I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that ... |
Sarge Send message Joined: 25 Aug 99 Posts: 12273 Credit: 8,569,109 RAC: 79 |
You would need to define "USA Foreign soil". The USA has (or did have) airbases in the UK with our permission. Whether they would have any more legal rights to "try" someone within those areas as against 5 miles down the road, I have no idea. Bentwaters! |
Bob DeWoody Send message Joined: 9 May 10 Posts: 3387 Credit: 4,182,900 RAC: 10 |
Aren't Imbassies considered sovereign territory of the nation manning the Imbassy? My problem with this case is, as it is with others here, the fact that whatever this guy did he did it without ever entering the USA (as I understand it). If he did come to the USA to close the deal then I guess it is a different matter. Bob DeWoody My motto: Never do today what you can put off until tomorrow as it may not be required. This no longer applies in light of current events. |
Gary Charpentier Send message Joined: 25 Dec 00 Posts: 30608 Credit: 53,134,872 RAC: 32 |
Aren't Imbassies considered sovereign territory of the nation manning the Imbassy? They can insist up the yoohaa but that is all. They could petition for extradition. Or they could wait him out. If he steps off the embassy grounds they can snatch him. Of course the embassy can kick his butt out too. They can not enter the embassy to arrest him. |
bobby Send message Joined: 22 Mar 02 Posts: 2866 Credit: 17,789,109 RAC: 3 |
Aren't Imbassies considered sovereign territory of the nation manning the Imbassy? There is a diplomatic agreement that local police forces, etc cannot enter Embassies, High Commissions, etc, the buildings are not considered foreign territory. There are no border controls and there is no "duty free" zone surrounding them. Crimes committed on such premises would be subject to local law enforcement, just as if they were committed on the street outside. I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that ... |
©2024 University of California
SETI@home and Astropulse are funded by grants from the National Science Foundation, NASA, and donations from SETI@home volunteers. AstroPulse is funded in part by the NSF through grant AST-0307956.