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Profile Chris S
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Message 1202408 - Posted: 4 Mar 2012, 17:56:36 UTC

Well, it looks like 'ol Puny Putin, their own Mr Misery Guts, has got in again. Most likely on fiddled votes, but that is normal in that country. If you don't vote for the glorious revolution comrade, it's the Siberian salt mines for you!

Putin back in

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Message 1202491 - Posted: 4 Mar 2012, 22:55:24 UTC - in response to Message 1202408.

You mean votes bought and paid for -- how crass, commercialism in politics -- glad we don't have any of that in the US.

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Message 1202510 - Posted: 5 Mar 2012, 0:02:19 UTC - in response to Message 1202491.

you forgot the wink wink
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Profile Gary Charpentier
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Message 1202527 - Posted: 5 Mar 2012, 0:54:19 UTC - in response to Message 1202510.

you forgot the wink wink

Vote Early and Vote Often! It is the Chicago way!

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Message 1202666 - Posted: 5 Mar 2012, 20:36:11 UTC

Not a popular "win" then ....

Protests

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Message 1202945 - Posted: 6 Mar 2012, 12:29:36 UTC

Seeing the thread title, for a minute, I thought they finally got rid of him....(nudge,nudge, wink, wink).
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Message 1202980 - Posted: 6 Mar 2012, 13:55:38 UTC - in response to Message 1202945.

I think nat geo did an expose' on Putin and his ability to get people out to vote in numerous polling stations all in the same day. It's amazing how many shenanigans went on in Ukraine when a pro Putin man was about to lose. Putin brought all his cronies to ensure a rigged election. To think he would do anything less at home is silly
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Message 1204965 - Posted: 11 Mar 2012, 19:26:55 UTC - in response to Message 1202527.

you forgot the wink wink
Vote Early and Vote Often! It is the Chicago way!

Vote often and then start a petition (gaining enough signers) to repeal what was just voted in, it's the California way!
BAZINGA!!!

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Message 1204975 - Posted: 11 Mar 2012, 19:38:42 UTC
Last modified: 11 Mar 2012, 19:40:19 UTC

Nah we take it in turns,

You let the Tory party in
You kick the Labour party out
You have a coalition
And you shake it all about
You all say Oki Doki
And you have another vote
That's what it's all about.

It's the UK way!

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Message 1205645 - Posted: 14 Mar 2012, 2:33:11 UTC
Last modified: 14 Mar 2012, 2:38:49 UTC

According to their local callings Putin is new Stalin, Bush is total destruction, Blair is Bush's pudel. I mean just in 1 decade historic events really enriched by interesting figures or leaders according to social scientific calling.
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Message 1206540 - Posted: 16 Mar 2012, 10:10:49 UTC

Putin have no strong ideas, he is the representative of interests of a parasitic bureaucratic administrative layer. Therefore he is not the reformer and not the conservator, he is the dexterous imitator of ideas and deeds.
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Message 1206718 - Posted: 16 Mar 2012, 22:15:46 UTC - in response to Message 1206540.

Putin have no strong ideas, he is the representative of interests of a parasitic bureaucratic administrative layer. Therefore he is not the reformer and not the conservator, he is the dexterous imitator of ideas and deeds.

I do not think we have any Putin defenders here.

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Message 1206842 - Posted: 17 Mar 2012, 4:18:41 UTC

I'd say Putin kind of halfway fixed what Gorbacheiv and Yeltsin did to russia. But what Bush did to america is almost same as what Gorbacheiv and Yeltsin did to russia. There is some fate twisting going on among the super empires looks like.
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Message 1206848 - Posted: 17 Mar 2012, 4:59:12 UTC - in response to Message 1206842.

Orgil, well Gorbachev and Yeltsin did push the Soviet Union / Russia away from single party communist rule, and Putin seems to have pushed Russia back to single party rule -- true enough.

Also, Yeltsin was weak enough to increase a sense that the country might not work with a single autocrat in control, and Putin has reversed that trend.

State sponsored corruption is about the same over the full range -- oligarchy, nomenclatura -- not really much different there.

Of course Gorbachev did lose the various empire acquisition states (Ukraine, Latvia, Estonia, Lithuania, Georgia, etc.). Putin hasn't yet 'reacquired' them.

As to the economy, well if you have high priced oil, a lot of things can be improved.

I do understand that the demographic hole that Russia was sinking into (1990 to 2006 or so) has in the recent couple of years been slowed down -- that's probably a good thing -- The rest of Europe has a similar problem -- but lacks oil income to offset that.

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Message 1206851 - Posted: 17 Mar 2012, 5:23:03 UTC
Last modified: 17 Mar 2012, 5:56:00 UTC

Just compare Yeltsins russia and Putins russia.

I am not a Putin supporter. Within past 10 years russia is really changing from 90s mad society. Maybe it is dictators effect but russian strategic moves kind of improving multipolar balances in the bigger politics. Although still millions of russians are suffering mad society desease.
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Profile Igor Kostyaev
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Message 1206870 - Posted: 17 Mar 2012, 6:48:57 UTC - in response to Message 1206851.
Last modified: 17 Mar 2012, 7:19:26 UTC

I am not a Putin supporter. Within past 10 years russia is really changing from 90s mad society. Maybe it is dictators effect but russian strategic moves kind of improving multipolar balances in the bigger politics. Although still millions of russians are suffering mad society desease.

I am ethnic Russian, and the situation in Russia is one of my interests, naturally. All successes of Putin are reflected in the diagram of the world oil price. Nothing more. Neither real economic reforms, only possibility to spend the increasing incomes from oil and gas. If the oil price falls, the economics of Russia will fall next day. Putin hasn't made anything really good in the modernization of economics or something else (for example, the situation in science and education in Russia are slowly fixedly degraded), he is the dexterous imitator. I'm very sad that the majority of voters in Russia don't understand it. They want stability and as a result they have voted for "put in" pseudo-stability illusion, fake.
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Message 1206875 - Posted: 17 Mar 2012, 7:39:50 UTC - in response to Message 1206851.

Orgil, no argument that Putin is a more effective autocrat than Yeltsin -- especially when compared to the end of Yeltsin's 'reign'.

And I suspect Russia would be worse off with more of a Yeltsin like leadership.

The thing is, to a large extent, Russia's 'resurgence' can be pinned to oil and natural gas revenues. Also, Putin's 'war' with Chechnya, and invasion of Georgia, and manipulations with Ukraine seem, by comparison with Yeltsin's fecklessness, to be at least 'actions' by Russia.

It certainly has helped Russia that the US has been mired in Iraq and Afghanistan (when will ANY country truly learn how useless Afghanistan adventures are).

Also, the big crash of financial markets along with the real estate bubble burst certainly have trimmed the top off of the developed world's capacity to push back at Russian activities in with bordering countries which Russia seeks to dominate.

But those conditions mask the lack of real progress that *could* have happened in Russia. That it hasn't is on the autocrat at the top.

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Message 1206877 - Posted: 17 Mar 2012, 7:42:35 UTC - in response to Message 1206870.
Last modified: 17 Mar 2012, 8:08:23 UTC

I am not a Putin supporter. Within past 10 years russia is really changing from 90s mad society. Maybe it is dictators effect but russian strategic moves kind of improving multipolar balances in the bigger politics. Although still millions of russians are suffering mad society desease.

I am ethnic Russian, and the situation in Russia is one of my interests, naturally. All successes of Putin are reflected in the diagram of the world oil price. Nothing more. Neither real economic reforms, only possibility to spend the increasing incomes from oil and gas. If the oil price falls, the economics of Russia will fall next day. Putin hasn't made anything really good in the modernization of economics or something else (for example, the situation in science and education in Russia are slowly fixedly degraded), he is the dexterous imitator. I'm very sad that the majority of voters in Russia don't understand it. They want stability and as a result they have voted for "put in" pseudo-stability illusion, fake.


Maybe since Stalin russia has been governed by dictators until Gorbachiev whose less dictator approach combined with Yeltsins non governing ways produced 90s mafia ridden mad society. So for majority of russians to avoid 90s mad society they are simply choosing a dictatorship which originated from Stalin or Tzar whoever so hoping for some kind of stability.

All of us outside of russia make very naive conclusions because we are not tasting their real internal social dramas.

In different world Bush has brought down america to its knees that every negative possible things occurred there in the last 4 years. So for shaky west perhaps dictatorship stabilized russia might play some positive role who knows. In some ways it is political nature itself making its own atmospheric changes.
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Message 1206879 - Posted: 17 Mar 2012, 7:57:32 UTC - in response to Message 1206875.
Last modified: 17 Mar 2012, 7:57:46 UTC

But those conditions mask the lack of real progress that *could* have happened in Russia.

Exactly!

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Message 1206880 - Posted: 17 Mar 2012, 8:00:29 UTC
Last modified: 17 Mar 2012, 8:30:27 UTC

Barry I'd say 90s mad society suffered russians are simply choosing dark dictatorship to avoid another mad decade. And Putins opponents are not finding russian domesticated effective democracy approaches.

There are huge differences between western democracy and eastern domesticated democracy. Just look at japanese and s.korean kind of democracies which hugely under american political influence.


And now starting from hungary numerious eastern european countries beginning largely opposing western political influence and changing their constitutions to modify eu dictated limitations. Because except poland all of eastern europe has very shaky economic state, even in poland each month thousands are immigrating all over western side of eu.

For example japan has switched 5 prime ministers in last 6 years which seemingly american exported democracy since WWII period is still in not perfect shape including japans 220% of domestic debt ratio to its gdp vs america's 100% debt. Plus mafias in japan were legalized!! But its social mentor in america mafia is not legal although pots are in its way of legalization.

Even uk political parties have some level of american parties influence yet they've got 400% of debt.
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