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WinterKnight
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Message 1198470 - Posted: 22 Feb 2012, 12:49:48 UTC

Report in the Telegraph, says Japanese construction firm will build a space elevator in 40 years.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/space/9098048/Space-elevator-could-be-built-in-40-years.html

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Message 1198515 - Posted: 22 Feb 2012, 17:32:43 UTC

The company said it would carry up to 30 passengers at a time and travel at a speed of 120mph for a week, stopping off at a station at 22,370 miles.

Tourists would stay there, but researchers and specialists would be able to travel all the way to the end, said Satomi Katsuyama, the project's leader.


Surprised at the Torygraph, this is pure science fiction ....

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Message 1198526 - Posted: 22 Feb 2012, 17:58:58 UTC
Last modified: 22 Feb 2012, 17:59:11 UTC

lol it reminds me : the space elevator in the game : Sid Meyer's Civilisation IV ^^
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Message 1198746 - Posted: 23 Feb 2012, 8:09:47 UTC

The Space elevator is one of those things that look good on paper but to me defies any logical means of construction. I can see how it would operate and stay in place after it is built but I can't figure out how it would be erected before tearing itself up.
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Message 1198747 - Posted: 23 Feb 2012, 8:09:56 UTC - in response to Message 1198515.

The company said it would carry up to 30 passengers at a time and travel at a speed of 120mph for a week, stopping off at a station at 22,370 miles.

Tourists would stay there, but researchers and specialists would be able to travel all the way to the end, said Satomi Katsuyama, the project's leader.


Surprised at the Torygraph, this is pure science fiction ....

That's what they said about Arthur C Clarkes prediction about geo-stationary satellites in 1947. The Space elevator is also one of his idea's and about 10 years go they said that material stength only had to be increased about 100 fold for it to be possible.

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Message 1198748 - Posted: 23 Feb 2012, 8:15:25 UTC

Really so?

It's so nice to have your feets safe on the ground and still be able to have a look out into black space through a window!

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Message 1198752 - Posted: 23 Feb 2012, 8:26:40 UTC - in response to Message 1198746.

The Space elevator is one of those things that look good on paper but to me defies any logical means of construction. I can see how it would operate and stay in place after it is built but I can't figure out how it would be erected before tearing itself up.

My view and therefore probably totally impractical (another way of saying stupid);
Build geostationary space station
Ferry to space station 24,000 miles of very strong but light string.
Fix firmly to space station and then take free end back to earth
Use this string to drag stronger thicker rope up to space station
repeat as necessary, until strong enough to fix elevator to it.

see, easy, but with so many holes in it, it probably is impractical now.

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Message 1198757 - Posted: 23 Feb 2012, 8:53:44 UTC
Last modified: 23 Feb 2012, 8:56:48 UTC

Anyway, it was the Star Trek movies that came to my mind when reading this.

"Beam me up, Scotty", he said.

I am a little unsure about the name being used here, but as far as I remember this, it was Scotty for his name.

Such a device would be a teletransporter or maybe teleporter system.

What I have read, in order for something like this to work, the atoms in your body will need to be annihilated or
disassembled at the starting point and then re-assembled or put back in its original place when arriving at the destination place.

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Message 1198812 - Posted: 23 Feb 2012, 15:21:12 UTC

The Two err 3 main problems i see are the earths wobble, Wind, and the massive amount of space junk floating around our planet. Lets also not forget that the elevator would have to pass through a layer of satellites then have to be sheilded from the routine meteor shower for which the earth is constantly being exposed.
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Message 1198838 - Posted: 23 Feb 2012, 16:40:16 UTC - in response to Message 1198757.

Anyway, it was the Star Trek movies that came to my mind when reading this.

"Beam me up, Scotty", he said.

I am a little unsure about the name being used here, but as far as I remember this, it was Scotty for his name.

Such a device would be a teletransporter or maybe teleporter system.

What I have read, in order for something like this to work, the atoms in your body will need to be annihilated or
disassembled at the starting point and then re-assembled or put back in its original place when arriving at the destination place.

teleporting is a totally different subject and other than being impossible at this time has nothing to do with the space elevator concept.
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Message 1198949 - Posted: 23 Feb 2012, 19:42:33 UTC
Last modified: 23 Feb 2012, 19:49:47 UTC

Let me have a closer look and see what I can find:

If some kind of intelligence should ever be found existing outside earth, either in space or on a planet orbiting another star, how do you possibly put such an intelligence into kind of a context?

Could you possibly think of or rank such a possible intelligence such by means of a possible scale?

There is presumed to be Type 0, Type 1, Type 2, or maybe even Type 3 civilizations existing in space outside earth.

Until now, there is of course no confirmation of the existence of any such intelligence outside earth and everything should be thought of or regarded as being a pure guess only.

Still, why not give it a try?

There is an explanation for the so-called Kardashev scale which can be found at
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kardashev_scale .

If you should happen to fancy watching movies on television, you may think of Buck Rogers as being a Type 1 civilization. By the way, I am not familiar with Buck Rogers.

More familiar perhaps is the Star Trek television series ("Scotty, beam me up!").

This series centers around a thought Type 2 civilization.

And finally, for a Type 3 civilization, we have the Star Wars movies originally meant for the cinema, but now available for watching at home on DVD's, etc.

But these civilizations are technological (meaning material) civilizations. No angels and possibly no devils are readily apparent by means of their presence in these series or movies by means of their spirits alone here.

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Message 1198952 - Posted: 23 Feb 2012, 19:48:48 UTC - in response to Message 1198812.
Last modified: 23 Feb 2012, 19:49:59 UTC

The Two err 3 main problems i see are the earths wobble, Wind, and the massive amount of space junk floating around our planet. Lets also not forget that the elevator would have to pass through a layer of satellites then have to be sheilded from the routine meteor shower for which the earth is constantly being exposed.


Wind shouldn't be a problem since the majority of the mass of the thing will be well above the atmosphere. Kind of like an ant pushing on your shoe. You wouldn't even notice it.

Space junk and meteor showers are related issues and solvable. First, decide what the smallest bit of space debris can do damage, then build detection systems that can detect that size of an object far enough away to allow time for lasers (or something similar) to shoot 'em down.

Dunno about Earth wobble. Maybe it would just wobble along with it? I'll have to muse on that one for a bit.

Still, since the whole thing is pie-in-the-sky <snicker>, we can invent all sorts of technical gizmo's to make it work.
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Message 1198954 - Posted: 23 Feb 2012, 19:57:39 UTC

Don't think earth wobble comes into it. If the earth did wobble all the geo-stationary satellites that we use for communications like TV wouldn't work, because the footprint they transmit too must always be covered.

And for an elevator to work the destintion needs to be stationary, so it will therefore be in that 23,000 mile (36,000km) orbit, that the comms sats use.

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Message 1198969 - Posted: 23 Feb 2012, 20:33:03 UTC - in response to Message 1198954.

GPS satellites are being continuously updated to account for relativity. within days they'd be so far off for locations that they'd be useless. Pluss non-military GPS is only good within 10-15 meters IIRC

One of the most significant error sources is the GPS receiver's clock. Because of the very large value of the speed of light, c, the estimated distances from the GPS receiver to the satellites, the pseudoranges, are very sensitive to errors in the GPS receiver clock; for example an error of one microsecond (0.000 001 second) corresponds to an error of 300 metres (980 ft). This suggests that an extremely accurate and expensive clock is required for the GPS receiver to work. Because manufacturers prefer to build inexpensive GPS receivers for mass markets, the solution for this dilemma is based on the way sphere surfaces intersect in the GPS problem.


The earths wobble is only about 10-20 meters a year so it pretty much falls into the margin of error for a civilian GPS device.

However having a device hanging out at 22k miles and having to keep the line taught at all times would prove nerve wricking even for a machine. Depending on the material used the top of the elevator would have to be able to move with the wobble otherwise I would suspect minor ossilations would occur along the shaft. So the problem is how to keep a 22,000 mile long string straight.
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Message 1198982 - Posted: 23 Feb 2012, 20:52:37 UTC
Last modified: 23 Feb 2012, 20:54:15 UTC

GPS receivers are actually quite accurate. A few years ago, when I worked for a water taxi service, our units routinely gave better than 10m accuracy. For example, at the end of the day, when I tied up at the pier, I could pinpoint which end of the pier I was closest to with just the GPS. (The pier was about 15 m long, which would presume approx 7.5 m accuracy.) I would imagine that newer unites improve on that.

That being said, there are lots of things that can throw them off. The weather, local mountains, even flocks of birds. But, if you know how to read them and take local conditions into account, you can pinpoint yourself quite precisely with the civilian (commercial) versions.
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Message 1199040 - Posted: 23 Feb 2012, 22:56:14 UTC

You can't dial E.T. on the mobile phone, yet. Even a satellite phone would probably not work for this.

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Message 1199098 - Posted: 24 Feb 2012, 1:46:56 UTC

the whole problem with GPS is distance and time. Time is the enemy GPS satellites are in LEO. To get a space elevator to maintain position become about 1000X harder even when onboard computers adjust for time and distance. there is only so much that a computer can guess at before something bad happens.
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Message 1199166 - Posted: 24 Feb 2012, 8:03:29 UTC

Is it me or is musicplayer on a different thread but his/her responses are appearing here?
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Message 1199255 - Posted: 24 Feb 2012, 15:08:36 UTC - in response to Message 1199166.
Last modified: 24 Feb 2012, 15:10:10 UTC

If we can't understand music player ,
what chance have we got of decoding an alien signal ?
I'm sure some of our best scientific minds are on the job right now.

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Message 1199359 - Posted: 24 Feb 2012, 19:37:53 UTC

Different planet?

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