A country that dosen't exist:England


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Profile Sirius B
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Message 1196393 - Posted: 17 Feb 2012, 17:31:39 UTC

Should England be a nation unto itself? Many have said that it's Britain or the United Kingdom.

As far as I'm aware, the United Kingdom of great Britain & Nortern Ireland is made up of 3 nations & 1 colony (Both the British & Irish governments do not recognise Northern Ireland as a seperate nation - A view I personally agree with - if this is to be debated, head over to the Ireland thread))

England, Scotland, Wales & Nortern Ireland. I cannot understand why many an Englishman prefers to be known as British - methinks No Pride & they prefer to live according to the current Political Correctness of the day - poor fools them then....

Why shouldn't one be able to be proud of one's nation or is that a sin in today's world?

Even the yanks could join in on this thread...they have New York, Boston, New England & their main language is English (Albeit Americanised).
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Message 1196407 - Posted: 17 Feb 2012, 18:53:14 UTC
Last modified: 17 Feb 2012, 18:55:17 UTC

I cannot say that I know any "Englishmen" that say they are British before being English. But I do know some of mixed ancestry that do.

But some questions, what makes a person a person of an area, county or country. Where they were born, where their father or mother were born, where they live or any other reason?

My fathers family is from Lancashire, the house my grandfather was born in still stands. But my father was born in India, my grandmother is from Stockport or Manchester (depends on which map you believe). I was born in Germany and have German and British birth certificates. My youngest son was also born in Germany but in a British Military Hospital. My ex is from London, or so she said, but actually was born in Middlesex but it is now in Surrey.

According to the last two census reports, at least, my son and I are both classed as immigrants.
My mothers family were all born in East Sussex, for many generations.

My youngest sons case is the most odd, because just before he was born the Goverment passed a law that said all person born outside the UK were not British. And therefore he has two special letters attached to his birth certificate explaining and certifying that he is British.

So what nationality are my son and I? We both claim English.

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Message 1196413 - Posted: 17 Feb 2012, 19:15:34 UTC - in response to Message 1196407.
Last modified: 17 Feb 2012, 19:16:35 UTC

We both claim English.

Yes, of course you are. There are millions of people who are English, but as the title of this thread is suggesting: England as a country doesn't exist. No Englishman has a passport which states that his/her country is England.

It's very strange since there is a football team claiming to represent the country "England" trying to win the world cup, a cricket team which tries to win the ashes for "England" and a rugby team which represents "England" in the world. Yet none of those players belong to a country officially known as "England". Even BOINC does not allow you to choose "England" as a country; you have to settle for "United Kingdom".
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Message 1196427 - Posted: 17 Feb 2012, 19:43:27 UTC - in response to Message 1196413.

We both claim English.

Yes, of course you are. There are millions of people who are English, but as the title of this thread is suggesting: England as a country doesn't exist. No Englishman has a passport which states that his/her country is England.

It's very strange since there is a football team claiming to represent the country "England" trying to win the world cup, a cricket team which tries to win the ashes for "England" and a rugby team which represents "England" in the world. Yet none of those players belong to a country officially known as "England". Even BOINC does not allow you to choose "England" as a country; you have to settle for "United Kingdom".


Exactly! and if the IOC, FIFA, & EU had their way, there would be only one team allowed in those sports: Great Britain/United Kingdom.

I can't see the NIFA, SFA,WFA or FA stand for that....it would mean many of them no longer in power or getting high salaries...

...and as for Cricket, the Aussies would love that to happen....(no way Jose!)

As for the Atletics side, not my cup of tea, but I'm sure the respective associations would be in a fit as well...
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Message 1196514 - Posted: 17 Feb 2012, 23:41:48 UTC - in response to Message 1196393.
Last modified: 17 Feb 2012, 23:42:05 UTC

Even the yanks could join in on this thread...they have New York, Boston, New England & their main language is English (Albeit Americanised)

AmericaniZed. +Zed for your post due to this error.

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Message 1196527 - Posted: 18 Feb 2012, 0:10:52 UTC - in response to Message 1196514.

Even the yanks could join in on this thread...they have New York, Boston, New England & their main language is English (Albeit Americanised)

AmericaniZed. +Zed for your post due to this error.


To be fair the 's' is a modern affectation in British English, use of 'z' was still the preferred spelling of many words in British English dictionaries into the 1990s (the last time I had regular access to new editions). I curse Microsoft Word and it's UK English spell checker as it, like many Americans, believe that the 's' version is preferred.
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I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that ...

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Message 1196536 - Posted: 18 Feb 2012, 0:31:29 UTC

THERE'LL ALWAYS BE AN ENGLAND

There'll always be an England,
While there's a country lane,
Wherever there's a cottage small
Beside a field of grain.

There'll always be an England,
While there's a busy street,
Wherever there's a turning wheel
A million marching feet.

Red, white and blue,
What does it mean to you?
Surely you're proud
Shout it aloud.

Britons awake!
The Empire too,
We can depend on you,
Freedom remains
These are the chains
Nothing can break.

There'll always be an England,
And England shall be free,
If England means as much to you
As England means to me.

"This royal throne of kings, this sceptred isle,
This earth of majesty, this seat of Mars,

This other Eden, demi-paradise,
This fortress built by Nature for herself
Against infection and the hand of war,

This happy breed of men, this little world,
This precious stone set in a silver sea,
Which serves it in the office of a wall,
Or as a moat defensive to a house
Against the envy of less happier lands

This blessed plot, this earth, this realm

This England"
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Message 1196555 - Posted: 18 Feb 2012, 1:31:55 UTC - in response to Message 1196527.

Even the yanks could join in on this thread...they have New York, Boston, New England & their main language is English (Albeit Americanised)

AmericaniZed. +Zed for your post due to this error.


To be fair the 's' is a modern affectation in British English, use of 'z' was still the preferred spelling of many words in British English dictionaries into the 1990s (the last time I had regular access to new editions). I curse Microsoft Word and it's UK English spell checker as it, like many Americans, believe that the 's' version is preferred.


Plus "Zed" :P

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Message 1196569 - Posted: 18 Feb 2012, 2:14:21 UTC
Last modified: 18 Feb 2012, 2:28:58 UTC

I'm all for regional autonomy; i mean i was born a Georgia boy, raised a southerner, and found out i was an American after the fact...

That said, there is no truth but that which your eyes confirm.

Einstein went on about relativity, Darwin had his evolution, Newton propounded his gravity, Galileo proposed that the Earth was not the center of the universe...

One of these has turned out to be true... The rest are still referred to as theories, even by scientists. There is a reason for that:

However true something is likely to be, we only know that which we can perceive on a personal level. I don't feel relative, evolved or gravitational... It doesn't mean I'm not, i just don't feel that way when i get out of bed in the morning.

By contrast, i do feel particularly southern, Georgian, and now by proxy, Louisianian, when i wake up.

Once again, it doesn't *mean* i am, by god i just feel that way...

Maybe that's what Einstein meant when he spoke of things being relative, our perception of them determine truth.

That said, i don't feel less Georgian by being American.. Nor do i feel less Georgian by being Louisianian... And i most certainly don't feel less Southern by being both Georgian and Louisianian... Quite the opposite in fact.

Conversely, i do feel particularly less 'American' by being Southern... My whole life i have heard Americans referred to as another name, "Yankees", and not in flattering terms.

I was not alive to be aggrieved myself, but the stories that were handed down of those, "damned raping, burning pillaging Yankees who came through and destroyed an agrarian utopia", left their mark.

I *knew* people who were aggrieved. My mother was 25 years removed from her mother having her house burned by Yankee pillagers.

I *knew* people who lost. My uncle's wife married my uncle because it was the dying wish of her grandfather, who wrote a letter to his son, prior to his charge with Pickett at Gettysburg.

They were still alive when i was young.

Maybe that's what makes us who we are?... Those we knew?

It's probably just all in our heads, but then so are our lives. So is everything.

The loss, the love, the hate, the venom, truth, the lie... It's all a matter of our own perception.

A man isn't any slur because i call him a slur, but that same slur carries life or death consequences. Not because of the words, nor the truth, but because of each individuals perception of them.

Ultimately, whether you are English, or British, or American, or southern, Georgian, Louisianian, or any other title or slur you can think of, has nothing to do with where you were born, who, or what you are, or any other logistical fact...

It is nothing more than how you feel about yourself and the word you are called by.

Be who you want, of where you want, and by whom you want. No paid mapmaker can alter the truth of your personal experience.

Fight whom you must to make your truth felt among others.

Ultimately, that's what the history books are written about, and determine who people truly *are*
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Message 1196744 - Posted: 18 Feb 2012, 7:41:15 UTC - in response to Message 1196569.

Ultimately, that's what the history books are written about, and determine who people truly *are*

Very well said archangel,the whole thing not just the last line I quote out of brevity. But why cannot the English have a flag against their avatar here in BOINC that is an England flag? Does it matter that this confusion of identity exists? Does it matter for the English? For the originator of this thread? For anyone else now scratching their heads? England certainly caused this conundrum and then declared that the country does not exist as a nationalty. English by origin but not by nationality. Ah, OK, was it anything to do with trying to remove the nationality of Ireland, Scotland and Wales? In becoming Great Britain and then the United Kingdom when Ireland regained its nationality?


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Message 1196845 - Posted: 18 Feb 2012, 15:58:17 UTC


The Difference between the United Kingdom, Great Britain and England Explained


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Message 1196873 - Posted: 18 Feb 2012, 16:37:31 UTC

And why we still have a Monarchy
or
a thought for anti-monarchists to chew on

Not everyone will celebrate the 60th anniversary of the Queen's accession to the throne. There are still those who would prefer Britain to have an elected head of state. Let's imagine for a moment that the anti-monarchists got their way, the Queen were stripped of her crown, and we were asked to pick a president.

What sort of person would we want to vote for, if we were completely free to choose?

First of all, we'd want someone who is popular not only at home but abroad.

We'd want someone who could be relied on to act with grace, dignity, elegance and tact.

We'd want someone who would rise above the childish, bickering scramble of politics.

We'd want someone who would perform their duties untiringly and uncomplainingly.

And we'd want someone who could be guaranteed never to bring the nation into disrepute.

It's hard to think of candidates who would fulfil all those criteria. But one does spring to mind.

This is where anti-monarchism hits a snag. Because if the people of Britain were free to vote for anyone to be their head of state, the candidate they'd choose would surely be… the Queen.

From the Telegraph

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Message 1196875 - Posted: 18 Feb 2012, 16:40:10 UTC - in response to Message 1196514.

Even the yanks could join in on this thread...they have New York, Boston, New England & their main language is English (Albeit Americanised)

AmericaniZed. +Zed for your post due to this error.


LOL....We're talking about England & we use an S to your Z
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Message 1196881 - Posted: 18 Feb 2012, 17:05:30 UTC - in response to Message 1196873.

the candidate they'd choose would surely be… the Queen.

From the Telegraph

Yes but what happens when Camilla becomes Queen :-/
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Message 1196892 - Posted: 18 Feb 2012, 17:25:13 UTC - in response to Message 1196881.

the candidate they'd choose would surely be… the Queen.

From the Telegraph

Yes but what happens when Camilla becomes Queen :-/

She won't be a problem because Charles will be the Monarch, who probably will not be on the throne very long.

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Message 1196933 - Posted: 18 Feb 2012, 19:14:11 UTC

Legality

Stated wishes

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Message 1197023 - Posted: 18 Feb 2012, 21:45:38 UTC - in response to Message 1196875.

Even the yanks could join in on this thread...they have New York, Boston, New England & their main language is English (Albeit Americanised)

AmericaniZed. +Zed for your post due to this error.


LOL....We're talking about England & we use an S to your Z


Seems the OED has a different opinion. There's a place for z's and a place for s's, though perhaps I'm over analysing whether "americanized" is correct.
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Message 1197031 - Posted: 18 Feb 2012, 22:03:08 UTC - in response to Message 1196933.

Legality

Stated wishes


Given the Queen and Duke of Edinburgh continue to have good health, I believe the Queen wants to better the time of Victoria's reign then go for a new record. This, I think, means Charles will never ascend the throne, and would accord with the general view of the UK population, and the second in line will take the reigns in the event of either the deaths of the Queen or, more likely, the Duke.
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Message 1197045 - Posted: 18 Feb 2012, 22:26:45 UTC

I have to say John that, with the greatest of respect, may I please disagree with you.

Yes, HM QEII will in all probability, surpass Queen Victoria's record as the longest reigning Monarch, and she has signalled that she intends to carry on until her demise. And I would suspect that she would do that, even after the death of the Duke. It is a measure of the woman that she is, in a life long service to her people.

But, I do believe that Prince Charles, whatever people may think of him, has earned the right to take his place as King, as the longest ever Heir apparent.

Now, the question is of course, will he want to rule until his own death, or will he decide to hand over to Prince William after a certain time. That is of course the unknown question.

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Message 1197048 - Posted: 18 Feb 2012, 22:33:08 UTC

Even BOINC does not allow you to choose "England" as a country; you have to settle for "United Kingdom".


That's correct but as a unionist this does not bother me too much.
Especially so as most of what the UK has achieved over many years,
past and present, was done so as a union and not as a single country
by the name of England where I was born and still reside today.


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