Unusual pulsing signal on 14.320 MHz


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Message 1200500 - Posted: 28 Feb 2012, 0:14:25 UTC
Last modified: 28 Feb 2012, 0:16:17 UTC

37 is a prime number, and one way of enhancing the strength of a signal is to merge the incoming signal with an internally generated waveform of the same frequency. (I’ve forgotten the details of all this which I remember from my college days!) Could using a signal with a prime number of repeats on each frequency be a way of improving the signal to noise ratio for long distance reception? ... The short pulse could be for sychronisaton?

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Message 1200602 - Posted: 28 Feb 2012, 12:05:51 UTC

http://setiathome.berkeley.edu/forum_thread.php?id=59189&filter=false#978133

image ^^ signal :)

14.199 MHz possible pulsing

:)


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Message 1200642 - Posted: 28 Feb 2012, 13:44:33 UTC - in response to Message 1200602.

no, yours is most likely RFI which was clearly stated and I see not understood by you
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Message 1200755 - Posted: 29 Feb 2012, 0:13:08 UTC
Last modified: 29 Feb 2012, 0:35:42 UTC

Signal heard again at around 17:20 Universal Time today. Unfortunately I had to go out almost immediately, and couldn't attend to it. By the time I returned and listened again at about 19:20, the signal was gone. From what little I heard of it, the signal seemed stronger than yesterday. Michael

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Message 1200781 - Posted: 29 Feb 2012, 1:08:40 UTC - in response to Message 1200500.

37 is a prime number, and one way of enhancing the strength of a signal is to merge the incoming signal with an internally generated waveform of the same frequency. (I’ve forgotten the details of all this which I remember from my college days!) Could using a signal with a prime number of repeats on each frequency be a way of improving the signal to noise ratio for long distance reception? ... The short pulse could be for sychronisaton?
What you describe sounds similar to a product detector. A local oscillator in the receiver interacts with the incoming signal to make it intelligible. I often use my product detector on the 14.320 MHz signal. Although it is already audio modulated, it is easier to hear when an additional audio tone is produced, in relation to the signal, especially when the signal is weak. Michael

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Message 1200785 - Posted: 29 Feb 2012, 1:20:47 UTC - in response to Message 1200602.

http://setiathome.berkeley.edu/forum_thread.php?id=59189&filter=false#978133

image ^^ signal :)

14.199 MHz possible pulsing

:)

I don't guess that anything picked up by Arecibo is strong enough to produce an image signal of up to S. 9 intensity on a modest high frequency receiver. Many kinds of signals pulse in some way. The details of just how it pulses is what marks the 14.320 MHz signal out as unusual. Michael

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Message 1201233 - Posted: 1 Mar 2012, 2:24:51 UTC

Signal heard today, 18:28 to around 19:10 Universal Time. Reasonably strong at times. Tried listening at harmonically related frequencies of 28.640, 7.160, 4.773, and 3.850 MHz. Nothing appearing to be related to the signal was heard. Also tried to do some rough direction finding work, and experimented with different antenna orientations. Did not discern an azimuthal bearing for the signal. I *did* find that the signal seemed stronger with a vertical antenna than a horizontal one, even when the two were at approximately the same average height. Michael

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Message 1201445 - Posted: 1 Mar 2012, 19:45:51 UTC
Last modified: 1 Mar 2012, 20:44:51 UTC

The signal heard intermittently since 17:30 UT today. It is quite strong as I type this at 19:38. Has been as strong as S. 9 (4 bars) at times. Compared known audio tones to the signal. My best estimate is that the tones are about 550 and 850 Hz. Even when strong, the tones have an odd quality about them that makes such comparisons difficult. Something unusual about the sound envelope, or included harmonics, perhaps. These were not obvious when I looked at the impulses on the oscilloscope. Listened to an online receiver in Reston, Virginia, while the signal was audible here. The signal was not heard through this remote receiver. Michael

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Message 1201502 - Posted: 1 Mar 2012, 22:33:19 UTC

and at any time we cant record all the data for further re-examinations ?
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Message 1201545 - Posted: 2 Mar 2012, 0:44:54 UTC - in response to Message 1201539.
Last modified: 2 Mar 2012, 0:45:56 UTC

Huh? What are you talking about?
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Message 1201549 - Posted: 2 Mar 2012, 1:02:24 UTC

Okay, guess I'll spill the beans and see if folks think I'm off my rocker on

this one (which means I'll make a complete idiot of myself and folks will

just chastise me on any future posts I make on any subject), or believe I've

made a somewhat educated guess that right or wrong, was not to bad for less

than amature sleuthing on this one.
I suspect this signal on 14.320Mhz is coming from a Chinese ZY-1 satellite

launched on dec 22 2011 which is in a polar orbit with a 98.5 degree

inclination and orbital period of 100.3 minutes which puts this in low earth

orbit. with a Perigee of 779.9km and an Apogee of 782.1 km. I'm throwing this

out there now (which is probably to early really) because based on my

tracking of the satellite and the GMT times folks are hearing it in the US,

they seem to match up. Additionally, a bit deeper analysis of the payloads on

board this satellite indicate that the CCD imaging camera uses the 20-meter

band, though it doesn't say what precisely is being sent or received in the

20-meter band beyond what is termed as "positional data".
Tracking of this satellite can be observed at http://www.n2yo.com/?s=38038

and additional information that may or may not relate to this "specific"

satellite can be seen at http://www.n2yo.com/satellite/?s=38038 and

http://www.globalsecurity.org/space/world/china/zy-1.htm
So.... should I have kept quite and left people wondering about my ignorance?

Or have I removed all doubt?

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Message 1201739 - Posted: 2 Mar 2012, 15:49:00 UTC

Have considered and discarded a number of explanations for the 14.320 MHz signal. Some of these were my own, some were offered by others. All suggestions were welcome and interesting, as was yours. The fact that a given explanation does not prove out does not reflect discredit on the one suggesting it. We still learn a good deal by ruling out what the signal is not. Such suggestions may also spark other ideas that may be useful. &&& Upon looking into the matter, I find that the ZY-1 satellite (also known as CBERS-1) was launched in 1999 and ceased to operate in 2003. The radio link it used was in the S band (2 to 4 GHz). The only mention I find of 20 meters speaks of the resolution of one of the CCD cameras. This means that it can distinguish object on Earth as small as 20 meters in diameter. This has no connection to the wavelength of radio waves, such as when we speak of the 20 meter radio band. Michael

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Message 1201740 - Posted: 2 Mar 2012, 15:50:50 UTC - in response to Message 1201545.

Huh? What are you talking about?

He's the seti resident stalker and non sequitur specialist. His posts are generally self absorbed nonsense that only a person with a similar affliction might understand
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Message 1202405 - Posted: 4 Mar 2012, 17:35:41 UTC - in response to Message 1201739.

THanks for that explanation Michael, about my interpretation of the reference to 20 meters on the CCD Camera. But there was another one launched on Dec 22, 2011 (just for reference). Details at http://www.n2yo.com/database/?m=12&d=22&y=2011 even though it has no relation to the 14.320Mhz signal. The timing of it's orbit and when it was heard did match up pretty well though.

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Message 1202486 - Posted: 4 Mar 2012, 22:14:47 UTC

^^
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Message 1202659 - Posted: 5 Mar 2012, 16:07:34 UTC
Last modified: 5 Mar 2012, 16:13:13 UTC

Curiouser and Curiouser -- Have continued to hear the pulsing signal each day. It can be heard as I write this. In addition, have heard other unexpected signals on this same frequency. These transmissions clearly belong on other frequencies. I have heard talk and music that apparently originates at one or more ordinary broadcasting stations, as well as the distinctive sounds of the WWV system of time signal stations, which is run by the U.S. government. One might surmise that these broadcasts are being intercepted and retransmitted on 14.320 Mhz. Like the pulsing signal, there is no obvious reason for the existence of such transmissions. Michael

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Message 1204153 - Posted: 9 Mar 2012, 15:06:12 UTC - in response to Message 1202659.

I have read the entire post. The only way to lock down the correct position of a radio signal is to use triangulation. This is an old police and military technique in which you use 3 positions, 2 stationary and one mobile. The mobile
"Radio bus" is setup so it can receive the signal that one wishes to find. Each position listens in on the signal, the stronger it is the closer you are.

Before we do anything else, we should ask some very simple questions which have very complex answers and methodologies for answering those questions.

1. Is the signal mobile?
2. If it is mobile, single point mobile triangulation will work, it it is not mobile, none mobile fixed antena triangulation will work. The more points on the triangle trying to find the same signal the more accurate the location. Does anyone want to help?
3. Is the signal on the ground, in the air, or a NEO (Near Earth Object)?
4. Created by machine alone, or is the signal man operated and created?

I think if we start there we have a good chance at determining the what, where, who, whens and whys.

Signed,
The Holy Roller

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Message 1204292 - Posted: 9 Mar 2012, 20:56:33 UTC - in response to Message 1204153.

I have read the entire post. The only way to lock down the correct position of a radio signal is to use triangulation. This is an old police and military technique in which you use 3 positions, 2 stationary and one mobile. The mobile
"Radio bus" is setup so it can receive the signal that one wishes to find. Each position listens in on the signal, the stronger it is the closer you are.

Before we do anything else, we should ask some very simple questions which have very complex answers and methodologies for answering those questions.

1. Is the signal mobile?
2. If it is mobile, single point mobile triangulation will work, it it is not mobile, none mobile fixed antena triangulation will work. The more points on the triangle trying to find the same signal the more accurate the location. Does anyone want to help?
3. Is the signal on the ground, in the air, or a NEO (Near Earth Object)?
4. Created by machine alone, or is the signal man operated and created?

I think if we start there we have a good chance at determining the what, where, who, whens and whys.

Signed,
The Holy Roller
Thanks for your response. I see that this is your first post. Welcome to the message boards, and to this thread. &&& I know about radio direction finding through triangulation. This can be difficult at 20 meters, both because of ionospheric refraction, which causes the signal to fade in and out, and because directional antennas at this frequency are fairly large; on the order of 30 feet across, and must be rotated atop a tall mast. I had a couple of people with the appropriate equipment, or knowing people who did, offer to pursue this signal, but never heard back from them. They may have been deterred by the fact that the signal is only sporadically heard. Listening for it a few times and not hearing it may have discouraged them. At present, the signal hasn't been heard for three days, after being heard frequently every day for nine days. And before that, it was absent for twelve days. &&& I have no idea if the signal is fixed or mobile. As it has sometimes been heard for hours at a time, a conventional aeronautical source or a satellite in a low orbit can probably be ruled out. &&& I judge that the signal is so regular that it is very probably machine-sent. Since I can not find any known technology that produces this particular sort of signal, I can not even say what sort of machine it would be. Michael

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Message 1204950 - Posted: 11 Mar 2012, 18:42:20 UTC

Possibles

Boat watch net

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Message 1205161 - Posted: 12 Mar 2012, 14:20:16 UTC

Thanks for the links, Chris. I've investigated the explanations for the 14.320 MHz signal which these sites cover. There is an amateur radio maritime net on this frequency, based in Perth, Australia, and serving portions of the Indian Ocean, but the times it is on the air do not match the times the signal has been heard. In any case, the content of this net would be verbal weather reports and exchanges of messages, not audio modulated pulses in an unidentified transmission mode. &&& An amateur radio beacon on this frequency has been ruled out. These are found on 14.100 MHz, and are part of a coordinated, worldwide system. In any case, a beacon would identify itself frequently in Morse code, as required by law. The pulsing signal has never been heard to offer an identification, despite many, many hours of listening to it. Michael

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