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Is England trying to stir the pot over the Falkland Islands?
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bobby Send message Joined: 22 Mar 02 Posts: 2866 Credit: 17,789,109 RAC: 3 |
The USA ia a very large island come to that. I could've sworn we had land borders with other nations. Will have to check my atlas ;-). I'll excuse the grammar as it's late at night. Apologies for the mangled English, composing posts from an tablet is not my usual method. If I try it again I'll be sure to be more careful. @Gary & Bobby - Look guys if you're gonna join forces to have a pop at yours truly, you're gonna have to do a bit better than this. OK old boy? :-) Apologies, the post was meant to be humorous, hence the elaborate painting a picture. Though you have a point, a few smilies wouldn't have gone amiss. I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that ... |
Gary Charpentier Send message Joined: 25 Dec 00 Posts: 30651 Credit: 53,134,872 RAC: 32 |
You can remind me of anything you like if you wish. The USA ia a very large island come to that. Thought you boys learned something in 1812, that while you can take over parts it is vary hard to hold onto if the enemy has the ability to make weapons and you have a long supply line. The serious part is that if both of you went at is all out, I don't think England could do a defensive hold on them, they would have to go offensive on the Argentinian mainland. The islands are just a bit too close to Argentina for the English to keep resupplied. Of course under the Monroe Doctrine, the FalkMalLandsVinas are the USA's anyway. :) I honestly don't think there are enough resources there for an all out over them and both sides know it. Negotiate something. Chris, did you actually say to machine gun paratroopers? Thought there was something in Geneva about that. |
skildude Send message Joined: 4 Oct 00 Posts: 9541 Credit: 50,759,529 RAC: 60 |
Monroe doctrine considered the Americas as the US's sphere of influence. Technically, we should be telling the Argentinians to back down. You can't shoot the paratroopers but you can shoot their equipment. Like their helmets and webgear and rifles and their parachutes. If they are dumb enough to have those items then they may get shot in the act of destroying personal war equipment In a rich man's house there is no place to spit but his face. Diogenes Of Sinope |
Sirius B Send message Joined: 26 Dec 00 Posts: 24879 Credit: 3,081,182 RAC: 7 |
Until warfare becomes a true technological affair without the need of manpower, to end/win a battle/war, boots will be needed on the ground. I cannot see the EU or the US aid Britain should the Falklands kick off again & without that aid, Britain, this time around, cannot provide sufficient resources to attack, let alone retake the Falklands. However, if the potential oilfield/s is large enough, then maybe the US will provide aid (basing this on the "Iraq Affair"). |
Gary Charpentier Send message Joined: 25 Dec 00 Posts: 30651 Credit: 53,134,872 RAC: 32 |
There are three points here, firstly it would be that much more difficult to defend territory in the South Atlantic than it was in 1982. Secondly we were not expecting Argentina to take Georgia then invade the islands. Thirdly and conversely, military technologies have improved in the last 30 years, so we wouldn't need to send up helicopters to drop chaff to confuse missiles etc. Chris, missile tech has also advanced 30 years. Second how many spy satellites does England launch? While I'm sure the USA is happy to give data when there is free time on our birds, with the situation in the world today our birds aren't looking at Argentina. If you haven't turned them into Midway island I doubt you can slow down the invasion long enough to project enough force to prevent it. Once taken projecting sufficient force to retake is going to be next to impossible as Argentina will turn them into Midway. The USA has a little experience in island warfare and it is very very nasty. |
Gary Charpentier Send message Joined: 25 Dec 00 Posts: 30651 Credit: 53,134,872 RAC: 32 |
Type 45 destroyer: Windows for Warships. During its first major warfare sea exercise aboard HMS Daring the ship's Combat Management System crashed while under simulated air attack due to a power failure. The ship lost use of its combat management system, i.e. PAAMS. The ship's crew reverted to use of binoculars to spot incoming airborne threats until the CMS had been restarted. |
Nick Send message Joined: 11 Oct 11 Posts: 4344 Credit: 3,313,107 RAC: 0 |
Britain ceded control of the Falklands to the Spanish in the 1700's. During this time Spain controlled Argentina and gave Argentina the responsibility of managing this island. When Spain gave Argentina it's independence Argentina took possession of the Falkland Isles. Britain did not like this so kicked the Argentinians off the Island. So it boils down to what was in the written agreement at the time, in the 1700's, between Britain and Spain. Did Britain just give the Spanish control over the Falklands or did Britain actually give the Island to them lock-stock and barrel. If the agreement was just to give Spain the control over the Falklands then when Argentina gained their independence this did not give Argentina the right to claim the Falkland Island. Only if Britain ceded ownership of the Falklands to the Spanish during the 1700's could Argentina possibly now have a claim for this Island. My suspicions are that Britain only gave Spain control of the Falklands and not ownership because as soon as Argentina gained it's independence from Spain, in about 1816, Britain quickly went over to the Falklands and turfed off the Argentinians. Why, for as far as Britain was concerned it still owned the Island and the controlling agreement over the Island was between Britain and Spain but not with Argentina. What's America's stance on this situation, all depends on who the president is. Perhaps this Falklands issue will get discussed between Obama and Cameron when Cameron flies over very shortly. Obviously the two are meeting up to discuss the Syria issue and hence a joint operation together to bomb that country. The Kite Fliers -------------------- Kite fliers: An imaginary club of solo members, those who don't yet belong to a formal team so "fly their own kites" - as the saying goes. |
John Clark Send message Joined: 29 Sep 99 Posts: 16515 Credit: 4,418,829 RAC: 0 |
Obviously the two are meeting up I hope not, as Western intervention will not have any benefits to our interests, and will bring in Iran which will widen the issue. Indirect intervention by Britain should be the way, as Syria is much more complex than Libya. That was not taken in to account, nor history, when we got involved in Afghanistan. Nick A good summary, and our involvement with the Falkland islands goes back many more years than the 1700s when our people landed there which was more than Argintina did.. It's good to be back amongst friends and colleagues |
Nick Send message Joined: 11 Oct 11 Posts: 4344 Credit: 3,313,107 RAC: 0 |
Looks like the French had a hand in it all as well at one point ... ....and the Dutch too, for they were the first to place this Island on the map of the world. You could say that Both Holland, France, Spain and the UK have legitimate claims to the Falkland Island but certainly not Argentina. There is suspicion that Argentina did land on the Falklands around about the late medieval period but they did not lay a claim to it. Well it was 250 miles off from their coast line and one must assume that they did not think much of this Island. Well this was their big mistake and the reason why they are so sore about the UK having the sense later to claim it as their own. Still, Argentina never officially laid claim to the Falklands until around the late 1800's and no one took their claim seriously. Why H. Clinton wishes to support the Argentinians claim today beats me other than she's out looking desperately to make friends around the place...she must be a pretty lonely girl...that or no one outside the Americas actually see's her as a serious or worthy politician and this is playing on her mind. Perhaps she feels she's still potential president material, unfortunately girl the American population don't actually think this of you. The Kite Fliers -------------------- Kite fliers: An imaginary club of solo members, those who don't yet belong to a formal team so "fly their own kites" - as the saying goes. |
bobby Send message Joined: 22 Mar 02 Posts: 2866 Credit: 17,789,109 RAC: 3 |
Perhaps she feels she's still potential president material, unfortunately girl the American population don't actually think this of you. Somebody really ought to let the Americans know this is how they feel: A national poll conducted for TIME on Oct. 9 and 10 [2011] found that if Clinton were the Democratic nominee for President in 2012, she would best Mitt Romney 55% to 38%, Rick Perry 58% to 32% and Herman Cain 56% to 34% among likely voters in a general election. The same poll found that President Obama would edge Romney by just 46% to 43%, Perry by 50% to 38% and Cain by 49% to 37% among likely voters. Source NEW YORK , N.Y. - November 15, 2011 - As President Obama struggles to raise his own job approval numbers, he is not alone in being in negative territory. With two exceptions, other leaders in Washington are also viewed more negatively than positively. One exception is Secretary of State Hillary Clinton. A majority of Americans (52%) give positive ratings to the overall job she is doing while three in ten (31%) give her negative marks. This is, however, lower than the last time this question was asked in May when three in five (61%) gave her positive marks and one-quarter (26%) gave her negative ratings. Source I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that ... |
BarryAZ Send message Joined: 1 Apr 01 Posts: 2580 Credit: 16,982,517 RAC: 0 |
Indeed and the UK needs them for that reason, defend the world from German commerce raiders for sure. Don't forget that that apart from there possibly being oil down there, the islands have generally been seen as being of strategic military significance due to their location. The British navy used that ability to help clear the South Atlantic of German warships during WWII. |
Nick Send message Joined: 11 Oct 11 Posts: 4344 Credit: 3,313,107 RAC: 0 |
Indeed and the UK needs them for that reason, defend the world from German commerce raiders for sure. By the way Barry, WWII is now over, it ended some 60 odd years ago. The Germans abilities in commerce are much admired by us British, It's just a shame that the French don't see the Germans in the same good light here as we do. The Kite Fliers -------------------- Kite fliers: An imaginary club of solo members, those who don't yet belong to a formal team so "fly their own kites" - as the saying goes. |
Sirius B Send message Joined: 26 Dec 00 Posts: 24879 Credit: 3,081,182 RAC: 7 |
Argentinan UN Appeal From the BBC link above.... "She asked UK Prime Minister David Cameron "to give peace a chance"." From the Virgin News link.... "this militarisation of the South Atlantic" because it was a region where "peace reigns". So the events of 1982 did not happen then? Peace reigned back then? So 904 military personnel didn't die? Objecting over Prince William's military service? What would their reply had been if Prince Andrew's helicopter had been shot down? |
skildude Send message Joined: 4 Oct 00 Posts: 9541 Credit: 50,759,529 RAC: 60 |
I liked how they would have preferred him in civies. I bet you would. I don't see the threat. If the Argentinians aren't being aggressive about the Falklands then they have nothing to worry about with a warship coming there. As if 1 warship were a national threat to anyone. In a rich man's house there is no place to spit but his face. Diogenes Of Sinope |
Nick Send message Joined: 11 Oct 11 Posts: 4344 Credit: 3,313,107 RAC: 0 |
As it stands, Argentina will get no where with their continual claims of ownership of the Falklands. Yet Kirchner will end up starving the Argentinian's of hundreds of million of dollars from the revenue to be gained if they became the major processor of the oil around the Falklands. Some other country will get that money. So when the job of processing the oil comes up for grabs see Argentina loose some of it's support from it's neighbours, Chile most probably or possibly Brazil. The Kite Fliers -------------------- Kite fliers: An imaginary club of solo members, those who don't yet belong to a formal team so "fly their own kites" - as the saying goes. |
Sirius B Send message Joined: 26 Dec 00 Posts: 24879 Credit: 3,081,182 RAC: 7 |
Naw, as the Jocks want independance, send in "Jockey" Wilson. He'll keep hitting "Bulleyes" so there'll be no need of the British Army to mobilise. |
Sirius B Send message Joined: 26 Dec 00 Posts: 24879 Credit: 3,081,182 RAC: 7 |
"Mr Timerman showed slides of the region which pinpointed the UK naval bases, saying: "Great Britain is the largest military presence in the South Atlantic, controlling access to the Pacific and Indian Oceans." You sure of that Mr Timerman? I'm pretty certain that the US Navy can dispute that statement! |
Gary Charpentier Send message Joined: 25 Dec 00 Posts: 30651 Credit: 53,134,872 RAC: 32 |
"Mr Timerman showed slides of the region which pinpointed the UK naval bases, saying: "Great Britain is the largest military presence in the South Atlantic, controlling access to the Pacific and Indian Oceans." Mr Timerman meant that statement for the hour he said it. Once one of the US Indian Ocean task forces heads back into their Atlantic port ... |
Nick Send message Joined: 11 Oct 11 Posts: 4344 Credit: 3,313,107 RAC: 0 |
Our reporter says there is a fair bit of sympathy at the UN headquarters for Argentina's position that the Falklands are a British colonial holdover. The UN would not see it this way had it been America and not the UK in dispute over the Falklands. How long then before they tell Guernsey that it now belongs to France again irrespective of how the Guernsey people feel about it. How about handing Australia back to it's original inhabitants namely the Aborigines and New Zealand back to the Maoris all taken as part and parcel of British Colonialism. All in all then it's pretty clear that the strongest argument Argentina can come up with is, "A colonial holdover" and the best the UN can come up with is a sympathetic nod knowing full well that the UK does actually hold full legal rights to the Falklands. And as for Mun-ki Moon time he got himself a proper job of work to do. The Kite Fliers -------------------- Kite fliers: An imaginary club of solo members, those who don't yet belong to a formal team so "fly their own kites" - as the saying goes. |
Sirius B Send message Joined: 26 Dec 00 Posts: 24879 Credit: 3,081,182 RAC: 7 |
Jeebers, what planet do the Argies think their on? Demanding their enemy tells them what weapons they have? sheeesh..... Nuclear Accusations Dismissed |
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