Some thoughts about the possible fate of the universe.


log in

Advanced search

Message boards : Science (non-SETI) : Some thoughts about the possible fate of the universe.

Author Message
Profile Bob DeWoody
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 9 May 10
Posts: 1364
Credit: 547,225
RAC: 272
United States
Message 1187074 - Posted: 21 Jan 2012, 6:34:19 UTC

Even though I feel it's somewhat pointless to ponder the fate of the universe I've been wondering about one possible scenario in contrast to the most widely accepted current theory that the cosmos will continue expanding till it evaporates into nothingness. My thoughts are leaning toward a fate where the black holes at the centers of the biggest galaxies start to grow exponentially until they start eating each other and all the smaller galaxies until at the end some critical mass is reached and then the next bang. This is sort of like the old expansion and contraction repeating cycles with a slightly different twist in the form of a single cosmic black hole forming right at the end of the cycle.
____________
Bob DeWoody

My motto: Never do today what you can put off until tomorrow as it may not be required.

Profile Chris S
Volunteer tester
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 19 Nov 00
Posts: 31100
Credit: 11,268,674
RAC: 19,689
United Kingdom
Message 1187534 - Posted: 22 Jan 2012, 22:34:55 UTC

You are part of the way towards the theory I have been long proposing.

The universe is infinite i.e. it goes on and on in every direction for ever, it always has done and always will do. But scattered within it are various super massive black holes. In time these devour so much mass that they simply cannot retain it, and explode in a big bang.

What we are seeing now is the result of our local big bang in our particular part of the universe. Elsewhere there are other big bangs happening. In time the remnants of our big bang will expand sufficiently to get swallowed up by another super massive black hole, and another big bang will happen somewhere else.

Think of the universe as a pan of bubbling soup, where the big bangs are the bubbles. The thing is where does the energy come from to keep the soup bubbling.... Dark matter? we do not yet know.

Profile john3760
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 9 Feb 11
Posts: 334
Credit: 3,400,979
RAC: 0
United Kingdom
Message 1187559 - Posted: 23 Jan 2012, 0:27:36 UTC - in response to Message 1187534.

Multiverses anyone??

john3760
____________

Profile Cheng Fan Soon
Send message
Joined: 3 Oct 05
Posts: 66
Credit: 652,644
RAC: 80
Malaysia
Message 1187576 - Posted: 23 Jan 2012, 2:14:13 UTC
Last modified: 23 Jan 2012, 2:14:51 UTC

Scientific America Oct 2008: Forget the Big Bang now it's the Big Bounce

Profile Bob DeWoody
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 9 May 10
Posts: 1364
Credit: 547,225
RAC: 272
United States
Message 1187584 - Posted: 23 Jan 2012, 3:44:07 UTC

It's encouraging to me to see that there are others that don't buy the concept that the universe will just keep expanding until everything just evaporates to nothing.
____________
Bob DeWoody

My motto: Never do today what you can put off until tomorrow as it may not be required.

Profile Gary Charpentier
Volunteer tester
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 25 Dec 00
Posts: 12116
Credit: 6,403,849
RAC: 8,150
United States
Message 1187585 - Posted: 23 Jan 2012, 3:51:42 UTC - in response to Message 1187584.

It's encouraging to me to see that there are others that don't buy the concept that the universe will just keep expanding until everything just evaporates to nothing.

Of course it will, if Mr. Hawking is right about black holes evaporating.

____________

Profile William Rothamel
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 25 Oct 06
Posts: 2462
Credit: 1,171,859
RAC: 109
United States
Message 1187590 - Posted: 23 Jan 2012, 4:02:23 UTC - in response to Message 1187585.

in 10 to the 100th power years the universe will be a cold, dead place.

Profile Bob DeWoody
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 9 May 10
Posts: 1364
Credit: 547,225
RAC: 272
United States
Message 1187608 - Posted: 23 Jan 2012, 6:21:27 UTC - in response to Message 1187590.

in 10 to the 100th power years the universe will be a cold, dead place.

That's the theory that I don't buy. Not that it will ever to me.
____________
Bob DeWoody

My motto: Never do today what you can put off until tomorrow as it may not be required.

Profile Bob DeWoody
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 9 May 10
Posts: 1364
Credit: 547,225
RAC: 272
United States
Message 1187963 - Posted: 24 Jan 2012, 8:20:14 UTC

I left out the word matter, so my last statement should read "not that it will ever matter to me"
____________
Bob DeWoody

My motto: Never do today what you can put off until tomorrow as it may not be required.

Profile john3760
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 9 Feb 11
Posts: 334
Credit: 3,400,979
RAC: 0
United Kingdom
Message 1188241 - Posted: 25 Jan 2012, 10:08:49 UTC - in response to Message 1187963.

You can't leave out matter (or it's effects)
when you are contemplating the fate of the universe ;)

john3760
____________

Profile SciManStev
Volunteer tester
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 20 Jun 99
Posts: 4792
Credit: 79,667,341
RAC: 33,664
United States
Message 1188264 - Posted: 25 Jan 2012, 12:05:07 UTC

Two things are relatively certain.

1. All the stars will eventually run out of fuel, whether it is hydrogen, helium, oxygen, carbon, and dead ending at iron. Newly born stars will also share that fate.

2. Everything is flying apart, and the speed of that is increasing.

Steve
____________
Warning, addicted to SETI crunching!
Crunching as a member of GPU Users Group.
GPUUG Website

Profile Lint trap
Send message
Joined: 30 May 03
Posts: 858
Credit: 25,793,957
RAC: 12,608
United States
Message 1188740 - Posted: 27 Jan 2012, 4:12:45 UTC
Last modified: 27 Jan 2012, 4:17:46 UTC

Jill Tarter's analogy for 50 years of SETI searching compared to the vast volume of space being like a glass of water dipped out of the ocean could also apply, IMO, to what we know about the Universe so far.

Our ancestors might have thought there was no point in sailing too far from land because they could only see or imagine more ocean out there, which they 'knew' had to end somewhere.... Our vantage point from Earth and its vicinity is just as limited as theirs was compared to the scale of what we can see from here.

We just don't know yet. And there's no way to estimate how much we don't know.

Lt

edited...

Profile SciManStev
Volunteer tester
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 20 Jun 99
Posts: 4792
Credit: 79,667,341
RAC: 33,664
United States
Message 1188826 - Posted: 27 Jan 2012, 11:06:14 UTC
Last modified: 27 Jan 2012, 11:07:16 UTC

What I have been seeing on TV, and please correct me if I'm wrong, but the galaxies are flying away from each other faster and faster. What I haven't seen is anything saying the galaxies are overcoming gravity, and expanding. This meaning the distance between stars is not increasing, only the distance between galaxies.

I have seen a show where they theorize that there is another universe outside of the bounds of our own, as some galactic clusters do seem to be traveling in a direction not due to expanding away from a central point. If another universe was there, then perhaps its gravity could be the dark energy blaimed for our own increasing speed.

Perhaps dark energy is nothing more than gravity coming from something very massive outside our range to detect it. This is just random speculation, and I have nothing to back it up with.

Steve
____________
Warning, addicted to SETI crunching!
Crunching as a member of GPU Users Group.
GPUUG Website

Profile William Rothamel
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 25 Oct 06
Posts: 2462
Credit: 1,171,859
RAC: 109
United States
Message 1188871 - Posted: 27 Jan 2012, 15:37:24 UTC - in response to Message 1188826.

It could be that the vacuum contains an energy and that if the Universe is expanding then more vacuum and more energy is being created. Since this involves creating something from nothing I find it more appealing to theorize that the universe is spinning and therefore flinging it's masses outward.

What and where is the axis of spin ?? Perhaps in another dimension.

Gravity from another large universe would also seem like an explanation.

Can either of these theories be tested and How ??

Profile john3760
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 9 Feb 11
Posts: 334
Credit: 3,400,979
RAC: 0
United Kingdom
Message 1189090 - Posted: 28 Jan 2012, 2:49:34 UTC - in response to Message 1188871.

I mentioned in a previous thread that our universe has to
be billions of times bigger than we can persieve it
(due to the limitations of the speed of light).
Gravitational effects of the actual universe as it
exists could also be billions of times larger.
We know there should be more mass in the universe,
but we can only persieve the visible universe.
Gravity or it's effects aren't bound by the speed of light,
so possibly "dark matter" doesn't exist and our
perception that there should be more mass is just the
gravitational effects of a much larger (invisible to us)
universe.??
____________

Message boards : Science (non-SETI) : Some thoughts about the possible fate of the universe.

Copyright © 2014 University of California