How does a Modern cruise ship hit a charted reef

Message boards : Science (non-SETI) : How does a Modern cruise ship hit a charted reef
Message board moderation

To post messages, you must log in.

Previous · 1 · 2 · 3 · Next

AuthorMessage
Profile William Rothamel
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 25 Oct 06
Posts: 3756
Credit: 1,999,735
RAC: 4
United States
Message 1186625 - Posted: 19 Jan 2012, 22:59:12 UTC - in response to Message 1186192.  

This time might have been at low tide and all bunkers full of fuel since he had just set out from port. The ship reportedly drew only 25 feet. That would suggest it would be top heavy and subject to a roll over.
ID: 1186625 · Report as offensive
Profile Dirk Villarreal Wittich
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 25 Apr 00
Posts: 2098
Credit: 434,834
RAC: 0
Holy See (Vatican City)
Message 1186627 - Posted: 19 Jan 2012, 23:02:24 UTC - in response to Message 1186625.  
Last modified: 19 Jan 2012, 23:08:22 UTC

This time might have been at low tide and all bunkers full of fuel since he had just set out from port. The ship reportedly drew only 25 feet. That would suggest it would be top heavy and subject to a roll over.

Very smart and interesting observation.
Congratulations.
It remembers me to an old chap named Archimedes of Syracuse!

ID: 1186627 · Report as offensive
Profile Bob DeWoody
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 9 May 10
Posts: 3387
Credit: 4,182,900
RAC: 10
United States
Message 1186716 - Posted: 20 Jan 2012, 5:50:06 UTC

I guess it doesn't matter how many nav aids a ship has if the chief nav aid (read captain) has a faulty cpu.
Bob DeWoody

My motto: Never do today what you can put off until tomorrow as it may not be required. This no longer applies in light of current events.
ID: 1186716 · Report as offensive
Profile tullio
Volunteer tester

Send message
Joined: 9 Apr 04
Posts: 8797
Credit: 2,930,782
RAC: 1
Italy
Message 1186792 - Posted: 20 Jan 2012, 14:00:33 UTC

Had he sailed straight on he would probably have passed clear of the rocks, as he had done before. But he turned the bow right and the stern went left, because of inertia, hitting the rocks on the left side of the ship.
Tullio
ID: 1186792 · Report as offensive
Profile Gary Charpentier Crowdfunding Project Donor*Special Project $75 donorSpecial Project $250 donor
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 25 Dec 00
Posts: 30608
Credit: 53,134,872
RAC: 32
United States
Message 1186942 - Posted: 20 Jan 2012, 23:35:41 UTC - in response to Message 1186870.  

However looking into it, I now discover that Carnival now own all of them, including Costa ...

Thought you knew that from my earlier post about Carnival running into things.

ID: 1186942 · Report as offensive
Profile tullio
Volunteer tester

Send message
Joined: 9 Apr 04
Posts: 8797
Credit: 2,930,782
RAC: 1
Italy
Message 1187078 - Posted: 21 Jan 2012, 8:11:13 UTC

Cruise shipping has become a carnival. The Captain and his officers must entertain their passengers. Seamanship is no longer required.
Tullio
ID: 1187078 · Report as offensive
Profile tullio
Volunteer tester

Send message
Joined: 9 Apr 04
Posts: 8797
Credit: 2,930,782
RAC: 1
Italy
Message 1187133 - Posted: 21 Jan 2012, 13:41:23 UTC - in response to Message 1187129.  

Yes. he was the Comandante in seconda, the senior officer after the Captain. My brother had that role on the Michelangelo liner.
Tullio
ID: 1187133 · Report as offensive
Profile Bruce

Send message
Joined: 21 Jul 99
Posts: 4
Credit: 2,257,656
RAC: 7
United States
Message 1216923 - Posted: 11 Apr 2012, 17:51:17 UTC - in response to Message 1185752.  


Do passenger ship designs include watertight compartments to protect against severe flooding?


All modern ships have watertight compartments, some are better than others. The Titanic had around 6 watertight doors (I don't remember the exact number).
ID: 1216923 · Report as offensive
Profile Bruce

Send message
Joined: 21 Jul 99
Posts: 4
Credit: 2,257,656
RAC: 7
United States
Message 1216924 - Posted: 11 Apr 2012, 17:54:25 UTC - in response to Message 1185562.  

A bigger question to ask is how much can she list and still operate her lifeboats? That was one of the issues with the Titanic so there is no excuse to not abandon ship before she reaches that point. It sounds like from some media reports some of the lifeboats did tip enough from scraping the sides to put people in the water.

The problems with the Titanic were many, there weren't enough lifeboats, there had been no lifeboat drill and no one knew what to do to abandon ship, and remember, the Titanic was "unsinkable".
ID: 1216924 · Report as offensive
Profile Gary Charpentier Crowdfunding Project Donor*Special Project $75 donorSpecial Project $250 donor
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 25 Dec 00
Posts: 30608
Credit: 53,134,872
RAC: 32
United States
Message 1216946 - Posted: 11 Apr 2012, 18:28:19 UTC - in response to Message 1216924.  

A bigger question to ask is how much can she list and still operate her lifeboats? That was one of the issues with the Titanic so there is no excuse to not abandon ship before she reaches that point. It sounds like from some media reports some of the lifeboats did tip enough from scraping the sides to put people in the water.

The problems with the Titanic were many, there weren't enough lifeboats, there had been no lifeboat drill and no one knew what to do to abandon ship, and remember, the Titanic was "unsinkable".

Every new generation or two they have to learn the lesson again from the school of hard knocks.

ID: 1216946 · Report as offensive
Nick
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 11 Oct 11
Posts: 4344
Credit: 3,313,107
RAC: 0
United Kingdom
Message 1216975 - Posted: 11 Apr 2012, 19:51:21 UTC - in response to Message 1185418.  

In this day and age how does a ship with every nav aid hit a reef leaving port?

...by not watching where there going!!


The Kite Fliers

--------------------
Kite fliers: An imaginary club of solo members, those who don't yet
belong to a formal team so "fly their own kites" - as the saying goes.
ID: 1216975 · Report as offensive
Profile Ronald R CODNEY
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 19 Nov 11
Posts: 87
Credit: 420,920
RAC: 0
United States
Message 1217024 - Posted: 11 Apr 2012, 21:37:48 UTC

His wheel watcher forgot which way was starboard.
ID: 1217024 · Report as offensive
Sirius B Project Donor
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 26 Dec 00
Posts: 24875
Credit: 3,081,182
RAC: 7
Ireland
Message 1217249 - Posted: 12 Apr 2012, 12:59:29 UTC - in response to Message 1216923.  
Last modified: 12 Apr 2012, 12:59:42 UTC


Do passenger ship designs include watertight compartments to protect against severe flooding?


All modern ships have watertight compartments, some are better than others. The Titanic had around 6 watertight doors (I don't remember the exact number).


Unfortunately, they were not completely watertight in that they did not reach from deck to bulkhead.

As the bow went down, the fullly flooded compartments tipped over into the next & so on.

Since then, all watertight doors must be deck to bulkhead.
ID: 1217249 · Report as offensive
Profile Gary Charpentier Crowdfunding Project Donor*Special Project $75 donorSpecial Project $250 donor
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 25 Dec 00
Posts: 30608
Credit: 53,134,872
RAC: 32
United States
Message 1217328 - Posted: 12 Apr 2012, 17:15:15 UTC - in response to Message 1217249.  


Do passenger ship designs include watertight compartments to protect against severe flooding?


All modern ships have watertight compartments, some are better than others. The Titanic had around 6 watertight doors (I don't remember the exact number).


Unfortunately, they were not completely watertight in that they did not reach from deck to bulkhead.

As the bow went down, the fullly flooded compartments tipped over into the next & so on.

Since then, all watertight doors must be deck to bulkhead.

IIRC recently there was discussion in the news about that. The engineer was on-board and knew before sinking that the berg had put a hole through enough separate compartments that she would sink. IIRC she could take four being flooded, the hole got six.
ID: 1217328 · Report as offensive
Profile john3760
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 9 Feb 11
Posts: 334
Credit: 3,400,979
RAC: 0
United Kingdom
Message 1217455 - Posted: 13 Apr 2012, 0:17:01 UTC

Unfortunately, they were not completely watertight in that they did not reach from deck to bulkhead.


But a bit more watertight than the car I have just bought,as I found out today
during torrential rain,in a sunroof/ water/wet arse scenario. :(

john3760
ID: 1217455 · Report as offensive
Profile tullio
Volunteer tester

Send message
Joined: 9 Apr 04
Posts: 8797
Credit: 2,930,782
RAC: 1
Italy
Message 1222982 - Posted: 25 Apr 2012, 1:01:22 UTC

Costa Concordia will be floated and righted by an American firm, then towed to a harbor and scrapped. A new Costa Crociere ship. Costa Fascinosa, will sail in May for its maiden voyage.
Tullio
ID: 1222982 · Report as offensive
Nick
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 11 Oct 11
Posts: 4344
Credit: 3,313,107
RAC: 0
United Kingdom
Message 1223329 - Posted: 25 Apr 2012, 23:23:28 UTC - in response to Message 1223318.  
Last modified: 25 Apr 2012, 23:23:54 UTC

Visits to the bridge are to be restricted and ships will have to carry more lifejackets under new cruise ship safety requirements agreed by the industry in the wake of the Costa Concordia disaster.

To be implemented with immediate effect, the measures also make it mandatory for all members of the bridge team to agree the ship’s course before the vessel sets sail. This was just a recommendation under current International Maritime Organisation rulings. The new requirement follows claims that Concordia’s Captain, Francesco Schettino deviated from the ship’s approved route to “salute” the residents on the island of Giglio.


New Safety

OK, parlour game time. Please rearrange the following words into a well known phrase or saying.

"Horse, door, bolted, the, shut, stable, after, has, the"


We've only been sailing ships for about 2 to 3 thousand years yet they still
can't get the rules, regulations or procedures right.
The Kite Fliers

--------------------
Kite fliers: An imaginary club of solo members, those who don't yet
belong to a formal team so "fly their own kites" - as the saying goes.
ID: 1223329 · Report as offensive
Profile tullio
Volunteer tester

Send message
Joined: 9 Apr 04
Posts: 8797
Credit: 2,930,782
RAC: 1
Italy
Message 1223459 - Posted: 26 Apr 2012, 4:32:30 UTC

The Italian Government has established that ships bigger ha 500 tons must stay away 2 km from isles and small harbors. The Liguria shopkeepers are protesting that in the deep Tyrrhenian Sea ships cannot drop anchors at that distance from the shore and send passengers ashore to spend their money by motorboats, while ships could anchor in the shallower Adriatic Sea. A compromise is likely to follow.
Tullio
ID: 1223459 · Report as offensive
Profile ML1
Volunteer moderator
Volunteer tester

Send message
Joined: 25 Nov 01
Posts: 20140
Credit: 7,508,002
RAC: 20
United Kingdom
Message 1223648 - Posted: 26 Apr 2012, 18:18:39 UTC
Last modified: 26 Apr 2012, 18:19:01 UTC

What hasn't been mentioned is why the ship was so vulnerable to a hole in it's hull... Has nothing been learnt for ship design since the Titanic or Herald of Free Enterprise disasters?

Well... Car ferry design has been modified in a minor way to reduce the possibility of a very rapid capsize due to water sloshing across a car deck.

But what of passenger ships? How does the safety there compare to the extreme lengths taken to make airliners safe?


Two solutions come to mind that would have kept the Italian cruise ship afloat and upright despite huge holes below the waterline:

1: Watertight longitudinal bulkheads along with the more normal transverse bulkheads;

2: Gas powered rapid-set expanding foam to flood a water flooded area with buoyant foam that could also seal up any hole. There must also be two layers of mesh loosely fitted on the inner side of the hull that would stretch during the collision but act to hold the foam in place. The foam system could be made as part of the existing water fire suppression system pipework.


Worth patenting so that I can make my millions? ;-)

Cheers,
Martin
See new freedom: Mageia Linux
Take a look for yourself: Linux Format
The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3)
ID: 1223648 · Report as offensive
Profile tullio
Volunteer tester

Send message
Joined: 9 Apr 04
Posts: 8797
Credit: 2,930,782
RAC: 1
Italy
Message 1223889 - Posted: 27 Apr 2012, 8:28:05 UTC

I think ship design is very conservative, compared to aircraft design. The best solution is to stay away from rocky coasts, as my brother has done in his 40 year career as a seaman and captain.
Tullio
ID: 1223889 · Report as offensive
Previous · 1 · 2 · 3 · Next

Message boards : Science (non-SETI) : How does a Modern cruise ship hit a charted reef


 
©2024 University of California
 
SETI@home and Astropulse are funded by grants from the National Science Foundation, NASA, and donations from SETI@home volunteers. AstroPulse is funded in part by the NSF through grant AST-0307956.