Parents role in Education ?


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WinterKnight
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Message 1346102 - Posted: 13 Mar 2013, 10:18:20 UTC - in response to Message 1346072.

We are of a different generation.

I think that is a fair comment. You do find that only the top state schools and private ones seem to fast track their best pupils these days. The norm is to concentrate on overall pass rates to maintain funding, to stay in business.

They do fast track in some schools, but in a way that is good for the school and not for the pupil.
If a pupil is capable of passing a subject with a "C" or higher grade early, they get that pupil to take the exam early, but usually with no extra teaching in that subject. This means that some sudents get a "B" or "C" early but if they waited would easily get an "A" which would mean a lot more.

Then they the get the student to take extra exams in the next year, that they normally wouldn't have had time to study, do homework for etc, so that school can say "we" got more exam passes than expected.

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Message 1346104 - Posted: 13 Mar 2013, 10:25:46 UTC
Last modified: 13 Mar 2013, 10:26:59 UTC

I broadly agree WK. The main problem as I see it is that education in the UK is trying to be run as a business when it isn't! All Schools and Collages should be centrally funded to the extent that they need to be, to provide the best education possible for all people, young or old. This situation of having to fiddle the figures, to compete in a tender process to get further funding to basically survive, is part of the reason so many kids are falling out of school unemployable, not just unemployed.

I have already stated my opposition to OFSTED and the way that it works, and the sooner it is got rid of and replaced with something more fit for purpose the better off our kids will be.

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Message 1346124 - Posted: 13 Mar 2013, 12:02:16 UTC

if education worked the way it should, then each and every student would get the

most education possible for that student, which would be different for each that

should be the goal.
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Message 1346132 - Posted: 13 Mar 2013, 12:16:10 UTC

In a perfect world that of course should be the overall aim. But we have to be pragmatic and accept it how it is. However, we can, and should, do much better.

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Message 1362704 - Posted: 29 Apr 2013, 21:17:24 UTC

A bit late in the day, but if they start now, they might just be able to turn things around.....

Parents must teach the difference between right & wrong says watchdog
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Message 1362854 - Posted: 30 Apr 2013, 10:05:08 UTC

Oh my good golly gosh .....

Deep breaths (yeth and I'm only 16 ...)

I have to agree +1, 100%. I have been saying exactly this for over 10 years!!!

they might just be able to turn things around.....

We will see. Too many kids are born as a meal ticket to get social security payments, it's seen by many as better than working. Therefore the parents aren't interested in teaching their kids, they are just a means to an end. The kids grow up without any control, until the police inevitably have to get involved. They in turn do the same as their parents, it's a vicious circle. Make it more profitable to get a job than have kids to pay your way and it might work. Until then all we are doing is highlighting the problem and picking up the pieces.

Never to late to try to make a new start, we will see if this new Welfare system does that. Universal credit Although I hear what Sirius says about peed off druggies and alkies. Better to try something than nothing.

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Message 1366625 - Posted: 11 May 2013, 3:27:12 UTC

This one should probably called "teachers role in education".

'You gotta take this job seriously, this is the future of this nation': US high school student ranting about education caught on film

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Message 1366627 - Posted: 11 May 2013, 3:45:20 UTC - in response to Message 1362854.

Oh my good golly gosh .....

Deep breaths (yeth and I'm only 16 ...)

I have to agree +1, 100%. I have been saying exactly this for over 10 years!!!

they might just be able to turn things around.....

We will see. Too many kids are born as a meal ticket to get social security payments, it's seen by many as better than working. Therefore the parents aren't interested in teaching their kids, they are just a means to an end. The kids grow up without any control, until the police inevitably have to get involved. They in turn do the same as their parents, it's a vicious circle. Make it more profitable to get a job than have kids to pay your way and it might work. Until then all we are doing is highlighting the problem and picking up the pieces.

Never to late to try to make a new start, we will see if this new Welfare system does that. Universal credit Although I hear what Sirius says about peed off druggies and alkies. Better to try something than nothing.



Over here in oz we had a problem with this and it didn't help with the gov giving people a 7 grand bonus just for having a kid to push the birth rate back up so now single parents will have to find jobs once the child starts going to school and there are a whole range of other things they have brought in to stop single mothers just having a kid to get more money of social security and the same will apply for married couples getting social security and it seems to be working .
Common cents idea without penalising those that do the right thing or saying let's just get rid of the welfare system , hope they have done the same over in England
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Message 1366795 - Posted: 11 May 2013, 16:43:17 UTC - in response to Message 1366625.

This one should probably called "teachers role in education".

'You gotta take this job seriously, this is the future of this nation': US high school student ranting about education caught on film


& to add to the above: -

From innocent curiosity to Illegal activities
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Message 1377914 - Posted: 7 Jun 2013, 9:15:17 UTC

In two minds about this one. There was a similar scheme on Demob in the late 40's after WWII, but they were never seen as "proper" teachers by their colleagues.

Ex army teachers

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Message 1377976 - Posted: 7 Jun 2013, 11:18:26 UTC - in response to Message 1377914.

In two minds about this one. There was a similar scheme on Demob in the late 40's after WWII, but they were never seen as "proper" teachers by their colleagues.

Ex army teachers


Reading between the lines.

A DfE spokesman stressed that top military specialists often have relevant experience, particularly in science and technology which could help redress the shortage of teachers in some subjects.

Many military personnel also have experience of "teaching, instructing, mentoring and coaching" which would count as credits towards the degree, says the government.


I suspect this actually means there is only 100 or probably a lot less per year that would fit into this category. There are a few senior NCO's and Warrant Officers that actually get awarded a degree on completion of a course. In my day it was an HNC if you were selected to do an extra 8 weeks.

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Message 1379784 - Posted: 11 Jun 2013, 9:08:25 UTC

Don't agree with everything M. Gove's is trying to do, and not sure where this is going. They say it is like the old GCE exam, but then English was split into two exam's English and English Literature. With the requirement to read a Shakespeare play and a 19th century book it seems more like the lit exam rather than the English exam.

GCSEs: New-look tougher exams revealed

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Message 1379812 - Posted: 11 Jun 2013, 10:12:13 UTC
Last modified: 11 Jun 2013, 10:14:01 UTC

As I have noted earlier in the thread --there are no parents in many of the inner city schools. With 80% born out of wedlock many have no father and an absentee mother who works or is otherwise not in the home. Children are often raised by others. So what happens is that many children have never experienced discipline of any kind and hence will wreck a classroom for any kids that want to learn.

The term "in loco parentis" --in place of parents-- is applied to the responsibilities of the educational system. Giving the child a good whack on the fanny with a paddle or removing them from the classroom is apparently no longer an option --hence the doom of public education in the inner city. It is a condition that won't be fixed in light of our current social mores.

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Message 1379826 - Posted: 11 Jun 2013, 10:45:18 UTC

First we had GCE's (O levels and A levels) then we had GCSE's, then we had CSE's, and finally SATS. And all the time the educational standards dropped, reflecting the declining ability of the pupils, and marks were massaged so that the pass rates were maintained, to ensure continued funding. An O level gained 50 years ago is probably the equivalent of an A level today. The problem was that unlike their parents, there became a whole section of pupils that simply couldn't (or wouldn't) cope with the stress of a formal 2 or 3 hour exam, yet in the classroom could perfom adequately to the standard required. Therefore they brought in a system of in-course assessment using assignments at exam level.

The problem was that the assessments and assignments were internally marked, and the final exam which was externally marked only counted part way towards the qualification. The net result was that it was far easier for a lot of pupils to scrape through by the skin of their teeth, when under the old system they wouldn't have passed. Eeryone liked it because it got more pupils a certificate, and kept pass rates high. But the employers Federations began to complain that the state schooling system was not turning out people that they wanted to employ, either because of too narrow an education, or because of simply not being at a reasonable academic level.

What Gove is trying to do is to raise academic standards by making the exams more traditional and increasing the pass mark required. Key changes from autumn 2015


  • Changes will initially be for nine core GCSE subjects
  • Grading by numbers 8-1 rather than by the current letters A*-G
  • No more modular courses, instead full exams taken at the end of two years
  • Controlled assessments (coursework done under exam conditions) will be scrapped
  • Exams to be based on a more stretching, essay-based system
  • Pass mark to be pushed higher

On paper it looks OK, but I bet it won't be long, before pupils complain it is too taxing, teachers will complain that their pass rates are dropping, and Schools will complain that it affects their funding. I'm not sure that this latest re-hash will work. And going back to the title of this thread, if more parents took an active role in their childrens education, the schooling system might have more of a fighting chance to get somewhere. At the moment the average teacher is just fighting soggy puddings from above and below. No wonder so many are leaving the profession, and the government have to consider drafting in fast tracked ex servicemen to fill the gaps.

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Message 1379829 - Posted: 11 Jun 2013, 10:54:54 UTC

As I have noted earlier in the thread --there are no parents in many of the inner city schools. With 80% born out of wedlock many have no father and an absentee mother who works or is otherwise not in the home. Children are often raised by others. So what happens is that many children have never experienced discipline of any kind and hence will wreck a classroom for any kids that want to learn.

The term "in loco parentis" --in place of parents-- is applied to the responsibilities of the educational system. Giving the child a good whack on the fanny with a paddle or removing them from the classroom is apparently no longer an option --hence the doom of public education in the inner city. It is a condition that won't be fixed in light of our current social mores.

100% spot on William, and a viewpoint I have been maintaining for over 5 years. Inner cities are a particular problem, as evidenced by ES99's recollections and experiences. Because of the general decline in societies standards, with kids being used as meal tickets, the whole shooting match is a vicius circle, and a downward spiral.


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Message 1379845 - Posted: 11 Jun 2013, 11:52:31 UTC - in response to Message 1379826.

I don't know why they do grading. Could you spot the difference between two pupils if one got 49% (D) and the other got 50% (C). Or 89 and 90 if 90 is the grade boundary.

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Message 1379881 - Posted: 11 Jun 2013, 13:47:27 UTC

No of course you couldn't but there necessarily have to be grading boundaries set. In my day the engineering exams that I took were graded

40% pass
65% Credit
85% Distinction

I got mostly credits and 1 distinction :-)


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Message 1380538 - Posted: 13 Jun 2013, 6:15:17 UTC

Another report that indicates the one size fits all use of comprehensive schools in the UK is a failure.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2013/jun/13/state-schools-pupils-ofsted-chief

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-22873257

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/10116938/Brightest-pupils-failed-by-state-comprehensives-Ofsted.html

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Message 1380607 - Posted: 13 Jun 2013, 9:43:49 UTC
Last modified: 13 Jun 2013, 9:50:41 UTC

One of the reasons that the Comprehensives were introduced in 1965, was because it was thought that the 11+ exam split pupils up, not only academically, but culturally as well, by them going to physically different schools. Kids were losing their best friends made over many years, and it knocked some back educationally for at least a year and sometimes more. They planned to have average and higher grade streams in the same building to counteract that, where the brightest got the stronger work and the social side would continue. Also one large school was cheaper to run than two smaller ones.

The outcome was that everyone got the same mediocre education. It's no good OFSTED moaning about it, if they had done their job properly in the first place, and monitored it, we wouldn't be in this mess. If you ask the average teacher what they think of OFSTED, and specifically their 3 year inspections, you had better be wearing your ear muffs, because the reply would make a Navy stoker blush! They are not fit for purpose and should be scrapped.

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Message 1384763 - Posted: 26 Jun 2013, 8:40:06 UTC

This seems to bear out what I have been saying for the last 3 years, that youngsters are leaving school to become not just unemployed but unemployable. Its all very well for the CBI to say they want more control, they had that with the T2G initiative but it wasn't working too well, so a large chunk of funding was removed. T2G

Almost half of those surveyed (45%) reported that many applicants with the right technical skills did not have the right attitude for work, while 39% said they often lacked any general work experience. Skill shortages are particularly acute in the engineering, hi-tech, computing and science sectors.

Businesses also expressed dissatisfaction with the current skills of their workforce, with 62% worried about poor computing skills, 55% about literacy and 51% about numeracy. About a third of employers said school leavers lacked basic literacy and numeracy, and a third that they lacked technical skills.

CBI report

So the employers aren't happy, and now it appears the teachers are increasingly fed up as well.

Almost two thirds (65%) had considered leaving their job in the past year, while more than half (54%) had considered leaving teaching entirely, the survey claims. It found that teachers' top four concerns about their jobs were workload (chosen by 78%), followed by government changes to pensions (51%), pay (45%) and school inspections (41%).

Teachers

So we have kids that can't read and write properly, employers frustrated, teachers considering leaving, and parents that aren't interested. Add to that, the brighter ones that do get to University are coming out with degrees in esoteric subjects that no one wants. All a recipe for further disaster, which no government seems to be able to turn around.

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