Parents role in Education ?


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bobby
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Message 1333387 - Posted: 1 Feb 2013, 2:09:59 UTC - in response to Message 1322586.

Most kids now are either created after Saturday night down the pub, or deliberately as a meal ticket to get more social money. Parents drag 'em up until 5 then hand them over to the state education system, and then effectively wash their hands of them.


Chris, I don't know what it is you have seen that leads you to make these sweeping statements about current parenting, though it's not been my experience. If this is merely opinion stated as fact, fine, otherwise please provide data to back them up.
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I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that ...

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Message 1337382 - Posted: 12 Feb 2013, 8:25:26 UTC

Another article explaining the "race to the bottom" of today's education policies, this one in the USA and the effects of "No Child Left Behind".

A warning to college profs from a high school teacher

A good insight into the problems facing school teachers, even if you disagree with my view point.

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Message 1343733 - Posted: 7 Mar 2013, 14:30:05 UTC

http://www.youtube.com/embed/Pwghabw4N80?rel=0
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Message 1343968 - Posted: 8 Mar 2013, 5:07:30 UTC

when i was younger i worked for a computer store.

this store install a 4 year learning program written by McGraw-Hill

in a junior high.

the slowest kid in the school went though the entire 4 years of material

in 9 months.

now these kids were allowed to do this program as much as they wanted

instead of the limited time a day that it was designed for.
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Message 1345193 - Posted: 11 Mar 2013, 4:50:07 UTC

If you care about education then you must read this,

‘I have had enough’ – veteran teacher tells school board

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Message 1345238 - Posted: 11 Mar 2013, 8:53:15 UTC

Please, sit down with the CLASSROOM teachers and work with them. But above all, GO TO A CLASSROOM! Don’t choose a “favored, high scoring” school. Go to a struggling school and observe a classroom. Better yet, since you are supposed to be people of “service”, substitute in a classroom. Your eyes will be opened to how difficult it is to do this job on a daily basis.

I would agree with that as a once off, not on a regular basis. A lot of you would have read ES99's experiences as a UK teacher, not a lot different. The main problem is the 5 to 16 year old age group for many reasons. Further education (FE) does not have the same problem. One of the reasons that ES99 now teaches adults.

That is why I titled my thread the way I did, because in my view it is the lack of parental interest and responsibility for their child's education that is a major cause of the problems we face today. I really feel for that parish teacher, even in my brief sojourn in the profession, I can empathise and sympathise with her.

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Message 1345270 - Posted: 11 Mar 2013, 12:02:06 UTC

by route learning is hard on both student and teacher, but computers in this role

have infinite patients and can be geared to see patterns in the child's learning,

and individualize the material presentation to each child, freeing the teacher to

help children with the problems they still do not get.
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Message 1345275 - Posted: 11 Mar 2013, 12:20:05 UTC

Hi dancer, I have corrected a couple of typos for you.

"by rote learning" and "have infinite patience"

Computers in the classroom are simply audio visual teaching aids. It is far more effective to employ group learning and pairing with the buddy system, to deal with differentiation. At least that is what the teacher training course PGCE advocates.

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Message 1345282 - Posted: 11 Mar 2013, 12:37:04 UTC - in response to Message 1345275.
Last modified: 11 Mar 2013, 12:37:59 UTC

Hi dancer, I have corrected a couple of typos for you.

"by rote learning" and "have infinite patience"

Computers in the classroom are simply audio visual teaching aids. It is far more effective to employ group learning and pairing with the buddy system, to deal with differentiation. At least that is what the teacher training course PGCE advocates.


i apologize for the dyslexia

each student is a mix of auditory, visual, and textural learning, for each child

this mix is different, to teach to a group is at best to teach to the low middle

of the group.

to use buddy's that are poorly matched is worse that no help at all.

with today's computers it is easy to customize the presentation to best support each child.

the teachers are still there to teach, the computers will simply take over the

most tedious portion of this task.

p.s. thanks for the correction.
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Message 1345286 - Posted: 11 Mar 2013, 12:42:06 UTC - in response to Message 1345270.
Last modified: 11 Mar 2013, 12:58:40 UTC

I was under the impression that learning by rote was frowned upon these days. That kids these days do not learn the multiplication tables by endless repition, or history by a list of dates etc. etc.

How much time should teaching staff spend on underperforming students? and if they do spend time on these students are they not ignoring the best students by not having the time to push them to higher levels.

I ask this because a lot of school education resources were spent on one of my sons, to no effect. And the other was ignored because he is intelligent and didn't need help to meet the schools targets of exam passes.
The son where they spent lots of time and money on is Autistic, and is still effectively an eleven year old. The other son went to good universities, now MSc, but if he had been given an extra push should probably have gone to Oxbridge.

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Message 1345291 - Posted: 11 Mar 2013, 12:49:25 UTC

to use buddy's that are poorly matched is worse that no help at all.

Unless you have undergone a formal Teacher Training course at Post Graduate level, which I have done (PGCE), you will not know the techniques that are employed.

Pairing

@Es99 - help ..... :-)

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Message 1345483 - Posted: 11 Mar 2013, 19:10:12 UTC

when allowed to progress at their own pace the junior high i mentioned earlier

had the slowest student there go though 4 years of material in 9 months

the fastest were done in 3.

it is possible with computer aided learning to push all the kids all the time.

and to push then in a manner that is best suited to get results for each child.

teaching to the group slows down everybody not just the bright ones.


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Message 1345547 - Posted: 11 Mar 2013, 21:13:32 UTC
Last modified: 11 Mar 2013, 21:15:11 UTC

teaching to the group slows down everybody not just the bright ones.

Sorry Dancer you are quite wrong.

Firstly, a trained teacher will deal with the differentiation by planning in advance of the lesson. They will often pair the brightest pupils with the ones that are struggling. The clever ones will feel valued in the teacher allowing them to help their classmates, and the struggling ones can often learn better by a peer showing them, rather than a formal instruction by the teacher.

Secondly, all teachers will have prepared extra work before hand, and often at a higher level than the average of the class. So the brightest can be stretched when they complete the easier tasks.

Computer aided learning, or self tuition sometimes has it's place, but usually in FE. For example, when I took the ECDL the College I was at had self learning, you worked your way through the course work at your own pace asking for help when necessary. It works with adults, probably not with 10 year olds. Go and talk to a fully trained teacher and ask them how they deal with a class of different abilities.

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Message 1345715 - Posted: 12 Mar 2013, 5:28:39 UTC - in response to Message 1345547.

teaching to the group slows down everybody not just the bright ones.

Sorry Dancer you are quite wrong.

Firstly, a trained teacher will deal with the differentiation by planning in advance of the lesson. They will often pair the brightest pupils with the ones that are struggling. The clever ones will feel valued in the teacher allowing them to help their classmates, and the struggling ones can often learn better by a peer showing them, rather than a formal instruction by the teacher.

Secondly, all teachers will have prepared extra work before hand, and often at a higher level than the average of the class. So the brightest can be stretched when they complete the easier tasks.

Computer aided learning, or self tuition sometimes has it's place, but usually in FE. For example, when I took the ECDL the College I was at had self learning, you worked your way through the course work at your own pace asking for help when necessary. It works with adults, probably not with 10 year olds. Go and talk to a fully trained teacher and ask them how they deal with a class of different abilities.



this is dancers room mate

i went to the normal classes in the Norman Oklahoma public school system. i had

many teachers tell me that i was beyond their class but they couldn't do

anything about it because of bureaucracy. i spent my class room time (except for

the 15 minutes to actually do the homework) reading fictional books. i got so

board with school that i ended up hitchhiking around the country when i should

have been graduating.


i have many times in both my school days and my adult life talked to teachers

in the public school system. over 90% of those I've talked to have told me

that they cannot give the bright students the time they need because there are

to many students in their classes and their standing is degraded if they don't

get everyone to pass.
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Message 1345716 - Posted: 12 Mar 2013, 5:39:39 UTC

i had the same thing happen 15 years before with the caveat that the excuse of

bureaucracy and testing were not valid.

and being paired badly with several bad students i was driven to conniptions

trying to explain the simplest things to slower student wasting much of my time to

little effect.

and while i had a few good teachers they were handicapped by class size and could

only do so much.
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Message 1345835 - Posted: 12 Mar 2013, 14:47:39 UTC - in response to Message 1345547.

teaching to the group slows down everybody not just the bright ones.

Sorry Dancer you are quite wrong.

I think I've seen you post about tracks in the UK schools. There are no tracks in USA schools. The morons sit in the same class as the gifted. The class is taught with the aim of getting the most passing scores on the standardized test. Better the pass rate the more $ for the school.

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Message 1345844 - Posted: 12 Mar 2013, 15:34:42 UTC
Last modified: 12 Mar 2013, 15:35:21 UTC

Better the pass rate the more $ for the school.

You are basically correct Gary. Schools in the UK are now run as businesses, NOT educational establishments. Every year various educational requirements are published by the Department for Education, which include so may thousand places for Baccalaureates, A levels, HNC, HND course etc. All Schools and Colleges undergo a 3 year inspection by OFSTED, where they get graded 1 (Outstanding), 2 (Good), 3 (Satisfactory) and 4 (Inadequate).

Only those in grades 1 & 2 usually get awarded funding to put on courses, which is based upon their pass rate.

Ofsted has been criticised as 'not fit for purpose' by the House of Commons Education Select Committee. The committee also highlighted their concern about "the complex set of objectives and sectors that Ofsted now spans and its capacity to fulfil its core mission". Other criticism has come from the Association of Teachers and Lecturers (ATL) which said "Ofsted is over-reliant on number crunching, using test data which are fundamentally unsound" and added that the organisation was "ripe for overhaul".


High time for a change!

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Message 1345960 - Posted: 13 Mar 2013, 0:03:40 UTC - in response to Message 1345835.

teaching to the group slows down everybody not just the bright ones.

Sorry Dancer you are quite wrong.

I think I've seen you post about tracks in the UK schools. There are no tracks in USA schools. The morons sit in the same class as the gifted. The class is taught with the aim of getting the most passing scores on the standardized test. Better the pass rate the more $ for the school.


====================================================
my schools were tracked
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Message 1345965 - Posted: 13 Mar 2013, 0:18:30 UTC - in response to Message 1345960.

teaching to the group slows down everybody not just the bright ones.

Sorry Dancer you are quite wrong.

I think I've seen you post about tracks in the UK schools. There are no tracks in USA schools. The morons sit in the same class as the gifted. The class is taught with the aim of getting the most passing scores on the standardized test. Better the pass rate the more $ for the school.


====================================================
my schools were tracked


We are of a different generation.

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Message 1346072 - Posted: 13 Mar 2013, 8:28:46 UTC

We are of a different generation.

I think that is a fair comment. You do find that only the top state schools and private ones seem to fast track their best pupils these days. The norm is to concentrate on overall pass rates to maintain funding, to stay in business.

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