Parents role in Education ?

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Profile dancer42
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Message 1345960 - Posted: 13 Mar 2013, 0:03:40 UTC - in response to Message 1345835.  

teaching to the group slows down everybody not just the bright ones.

Sorry Dancer you are quite wrong.

I think I've seen you post about tracks in the UK schools. There are no tracks in USA schools. The morons sit in the same class as the gifted. The class is taught with the aim of getting the most passing scores on the standardized test. Better the pass rate the more $ for the school.


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my schools were tracked
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Message 1345965 - Posted: 13 Mar 2013, 0:18:30 UTC - in response to Message 1345960.  

teaching to the group slows down everybody not just the bright ones.

Sorry Dancer you are quite wrong.

I think I've seen you post about tracks in the UK schools. There are no tracks in USA schools. The morons sit in the same class as the gifted. The class is taught with the aim of getting the most passing scores on the standardized test. Better the pass rate the more $ for the school.


====================================================
my schools were tracked


We are of a different generation.
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Message 1346102 - Posted: 13 Mar 2013, 10:18:20 UTC - in response to Message 1346072.  

We are of a different generation.

I think that is a fair comment. You do find that only the top state schools and private ones seem to fast track their best pupils these days. The norm is to concentrate on overall pass rates to maintain funding, to stay in business.

They do fast track in some schools, but in a way that is good for the school and not for the pupil.
If a pupil is capable of passing a subject with a "C" or higher grade early, they get that pupil to take the exam early, but usually with no extra teaching in that subject. This means that some sudents get a "B" or "C" early but if they waited would easily get an "A" which would mean a lot more.

Then they the get the student to take extra exams in the next year, that they normally wouldn't have had time to study, do homework for etc, so that school can say "we" got more exam passes than expected.
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Message 1346124 - Posted: 13 Mar 2013, 12:02:16 UTC

if education worked the way it should, then each and every student would get the

most education possible for that student, which would be different for each that

should be the goal.
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Message 1362704 - Posted: 29 Apr 2013, 21:17:24 UTC

A bit late in the day, but if they start now, they might just be able to turn things around.....

Parents must teach the difference between right & wrong says watchdog
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Message 1366625 - Posted: 11 May 2013, 3:27:12 UTC

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Message 1366627 - Posted: 11 May 2013, 3:45:20 UTC - in response to Message 1362854.  

Oh my good golly gosh .....

Deep breaths (yeth and I'm only 16 ...)

I have to agree +1, 100%. I have been saying exactly this for over 10 years!!!

they might just be able to turn things around.....

We will see. Too many kids are born as a meal ticket to get social security payments, it's seen by many as better than working. Therefore the parents aren't interested in teaching their kids, they are just a means to an end. The kids grow up without any control, until the police inevitably have to get involved. They in turn do the same as their parents, it's a vicious circle. Make it more profitable to get a job than have kids to pay your way and it might work. Until then all we are doing is highlighting the problem and picking up the pieces.

Never to late to try to make a new start, we will see if this new Welfare system does that. Universal credit Although I hear what Sirius says about peed off druggies and alkies. Better to try something than nothing.



Over here in oz we had a problem with this and it didn't help with the gov giving people a 7 grand bonus just for having a kid to push the birth rate back up so now single parents will have to find jobs once the child starts going to school and there are a whole range of other things they have brought in to stop single mothers just having a kid to get more money of social security and the same will apply for married couples getting social security and it seems to be working .
Common cents idea without penalising those that do the right thing or saying let's just get rid of the welfare system , hope they have done the same over in England
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Message 1366795 - Posted: 11 May 2013, 16:43:17 UTC - in response to Message 1366625.  

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Message 1377976 - Posted: 7 Jun 2013, 11:18:26 UTC - in response to Message 1377914.  

In two minds about this one. There was a similar scheme on Demob in the late 40's after WWII, but they were never seen as "proper" teachers by their colleagues.

Ex army teachers


Reading between the lines.

A DfE spokesman stressed that top military specialists often have relevant experience, particularly in science and technology which could help redress the shortage of teachers in some subjects.

Many military personnel also have experience of "teaching, instructing, mentoring and coaching" which would count as credits towards the degree, says the government.


I suspect this actually means there is only 100 or probably a lot less per year that would fit into this category. There are a few senior NCO's and Warrant Officers that actually get awarded a degree on completion of a course. In my day it was an HNC if you were selected to do an extra 8 weeks.
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Message 1379784 - Posted: 11 Jun 2013, 9:08:25 UTC

Don't agree with everything M. Gove's is trying to do, and not sure where this is going. They say it is like the old GCE exam, but then English was split into two exam's English and English Literature. With the requirement to read a Shakespeare play and a 19th century book it seems more like the lit exam rather than the English exam.

GCSEs: New-look tougher exams revealed
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Message 1379812 - Posted: 11 Jun 2013, 10:12:13 UTC
Last modified: 11 Jun 2013, 10:14:01 UTC

As I have noted earlier in the thread --there are no parents in many of the inner city schools. With 80% born out of wedlock many have no father and an absentee mother who works or is otherwise not in the home. Children are often raised by others. So what happens is that many children have never experienced discipline of any kind and hence will wreck a classroom for any kids that want to learn.

The term "in loco parentis" --in place of parents-- is applied to the responsibilities of the educational system. Giving the child a good whack on the fanny with a paddle or removing them from the classroom is apparently no longer an option --hence the doom of public education in the inner city. It is a condition that won't be fixed in light of our current social mores.
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Message 1379845 - Posted: 11 Jun 2013, 11:52:31 UTC - in response to Message 1379826.  

I don't know why they do grading. Could you spot the difference between two pupils if one got 49% (D) and the other got 50% (C). Or 89 and 90 if 90 is the grade boundary.
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Message 1380538 - Posted: 13 Jun 2013, 6:15:17 UTC

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Message 1385060 - Posted: 27 Jun 2013, 8:11:21 UTC
Last modified: 27 Jun 2013, 8:11:56 UTC

I suspect you are going to like this.

A close friend has 3 daughters her eldest 2 both have good jobs and have turned out well. Her youngest (14) has had a few problems at school and to cut a long story short, Social Services have become involved, despite providing a stable home and having 2 daughters with no problems my friend is seen as at fault.

One thing the social worker said was that she must allow her daughter to use "street speak" otherwise she will feel isolated. My friend is furious and hates hearing her daughter "sound so uneducated"!

Hopefully her daughter will realise not to use it when she eventually applies for a job!!
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Message 1385262 - Posted: 28 Jun 2013, 0:35:06 UTC - in response to Message 1385067.  

Yes I do like it! Isn't it nice to hear about a responsible parent for a change? But I would like to comment further, and I'll be very careful as I do. You don't say whether your friend is a single parent family or not, if she is, then she deserves even more credit for bringing up 2 girls that have turned out well, and being concerned about the younger one. I do have some knowledge of Social Services from my time as an FE teacher, as it is not unusual to have colleagues whose wives are also primary or secondary school teachers. Schools don't usually get the SS involved unless they have exhausted their own disciplinary procedures first, so it does sound as if she has been a real concern.

When SS got involved they would have had a school report on the problems, and if a single parent, it would likely have ticked a box on a form. Yes I agree that is unfair discrimination, of course it is, but the majority of cases they deal with do come from that background that is a fact, and they tend to approach things with pre-conceived views. I would have thought that further investigation in this case, would have quite clearly shown that the girl does have a stable background, has two role models in the case of her sisters, and a sensible mother trying to behave responsibly.

But, it has to be said, that Social Services in the UK seems to be a job that people drift into rather than through choice, and I think it is not particularly well paid at the lower levels. Although we hear regularly in the media of local SS managers on inflated salaries making stupid decisions that cost childrens lives. I personally don't have very much confidence in them to recognise a true case of neglect against one that just needs a clip around the ear. I don't think your friend should feel "at fault" and if that is how they have made her feel then that is wrong. Yes, she is legally responsible for the childs behaviour until the age of 16, that is a slightly different matter.

This business of "street speak" would have angered me as well I have to say, and my first reaction would probably have been to tell the Social worker to go take a running jump. But, in their defence, were they being offhand or just being realistic? If all her social circle do speak like that and she gets encouraged to speak "better" will that ostracise her from her friends, "oooh little Miss la-di-dah!", you know what kids can be like. I would urge your friend to encourage her daughter to gradually change her group of friends, perhaps her sisters could invite her out with their friends who don't feel the need to maintain "street cred". And yes, going for a job interview with that level of response, isn't going to achieve very much is it. But at her age it's probably "am I bovvered?". When she's stacking shelves in supermarkets at age 18, it's a bit late to wake up to the reality. Your friend seems a really nice person and I genuinely wish her well.


Alternatively there is a well established complaints system for decisions of Children's Services.

I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that ...

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Message 1385267 - Posted: 28 Jun 2013, 1:47:51 UTC - in response to Message 1187645.  
Last modified: 28 Jun 2013, 1:50:59 UTC

Major, you folks in Texas have a handle on it with the increasing size of the public school classes.
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Message 1385287 - Posted: 28 Jun 2013, 4:40:23 UTC - in response to Message 1385060.  

One thing the social worker said was that she must allow her daughter to use "street speak" otherwise she will feel isolated. My friend is furious and hates hearing her daughter "sound so uneducated"!

Hopefully her daughter will realise not to use it when she eventually applies for a job!!

I didn't know your government was doing such a fine job of keeping the people shackled to a welfare system. Of course I expect that out of the American Union teacher system.

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Message 1391948 - Posted: 18 Jul 2013, 11:19:07 UTC - in response to Message 1391902.  

So nothing has changed. The recruit soon finds out that if they are to advance they have to get educated or remain as cannon fodder for as long as they remain in the Army, or on the reserve.

Army website Training and Education.

Regarding your last para, I would disagree, the Army Education system is not that bad. Probably better than schools, and the pupils must obey, no bad behaviour allowed, it is a punishable offence, loss of pay etc. By law they are not allowed to serve outside UK, so there is a period of up to 2 years to train and educate these people.

Then there are the Apprenticeships they run, when I joined it was done by education and IQ tests. To be an Electronics apprentice the min IQ level was 120.
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Message 1397482 - Posted: 1 Aug 2013, 8:38:51 UTC
Last modified: 1 Aug 2013, 8:39:34 UTC

I see the schools are at it again, because the exams are too easy, a lot of students are taking the exams twice. The excuse being that at their second attempt it is to boost the students rating, but in actual fact it is to get more passes on the score sheet for the schools and therefore improve the schools rating.

Students should not be studying for the same exam twice they should be pushed into reaching the next level.

Schools ask pupils to sit maths exams twice to boost their league table scores

More pupils taking GCSEs earlier, says Ofqual

And a push from the CBI (Confederation of British Industry) to get back to traditional higher education.

Traditional degrees will not fill skills gap, says CBI
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Message 1411003 - Posted: 3 Sep 2013, 9:36:33 UTC - in response to Message 1410990.  

I'm not sure poverty is the main reason for this, I still think it is that far too many parents "just can't be bothered" across the board. Hence the title of this thread.
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God forbid parents should have to educate their own children!

Both myself and my sister could read, write, do basic maths, use full sentences etc long before starting school. That's because my mother took the time to teach us these vital skills.
I would say anything else is tantamount to child neglect, or even abuse.

This line also caught my eye as interesting:
An unnamed head teacher told researchers that the label of special educational needs might be "often used as an excuse for low expectations and under-preparation on the part of parents".

Definitely has a point. I have no doubt that dyslexia (and all the other dys...s) do exist, but they should be a rare exception, not a convenient tag.
Many teachers must find extremely irritating such parental excuses as 'oh it's not his fault, he's got ADD'. No he hasn't, he's just naughty because you never made him toe the line.

Deep breaths Simon!

This line also grabbed my attention.
It says, for example, that only 26% of white boys on free school meals achieve five good GCSEs compared with 40% of black boys on free school meals.

At my school 0% of white boys got free school meals, and i achieved 6 A*s and 4 As at GCSE, then three As and two Bs at A level. Free school meals, who needs 'em.
Also black boys only appeared on Oxfam posters, but that's northern country life for you.
Life on earth is the global equivalent of not storing things in the fridge.
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