Parents role in Education ?

Message boards : Politics : Parents role in Education ?
Message board moderation

To post messages, you must log in.

Previous · 1 . . . 11 · 12 · 13 · 14 · 15 · 16 · 17 . . . 19 · Next

AuthorMessage
Profile John Clark
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 29 Sep 99
Posts: 16515
Credit: 4,418,829
RAC: 0
United Kingdom
Message 1314712 - Posted: 13 Dec 2012, 17:27:04 UTC

True Chris

Literacy and innumeracy was reported at 5% of the adult population by the end of the 1960s. I saw it had risen to close on 23% now, all due to better more effective teaching??
It's good to be back amongst friends and colleagues



ID: 1314712 · Report as offensive
Profile Gary Charpentier Crowdfunding Project Donor*Special Project $75 donorSpecial Project $250 donor
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 25 Dec 00
Posts: 30608
Credit: 53,134,872
RAC: 32
United States
Message 1319659 - Posted: 24 Dec 2012, 17:35:18 UTC

http://english.pravda.ru/opinion/columnists/21-12-2012/123261-americans_children-0/
Why Americans cannot discipline their children

The ultimate reason that Americans are unable to discipline their children is that they have no authority over them. The American state, together with private industry, especially the "helping professions," have usurped their authority in loco parentis, thus empowering physicians, psychologists, judges, social workers, dentists and other health workers by, in effect, reducing people to parental incompetence.


ID: 1319659 · Report as offensive
Profile Es99
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 23 Aug 05
Posts: 10874
Credit: 350,402
RAC: 0
Canada
Message 1319666 - Posted: 24 Dec 2012, 17:49:26 UTC - in response to Message 1311823.  

Let’s pay each teacher what they’re worth

Dangerous idea, unless it is a move to cut the education budget.
Based on the performance as published by the government a large percentage of the teachers would get a pay cut.

But as most teachers have to do as they are told, by the government, and not do their best to teach the subject, maybe the best place to start with "paying what they are worth" should start at the top.

...and actually letting the teacher's get on with what they are trained to do.

You are right, the problem is from the top. Too much emphasis on exam results and league tables means teacher's can't focus on what education is actually for.
Reality Internet Personality
ID: 1319666 · Report as offensive
Profile dancer42
Volunteer tester

Send message
Joined: 2 Jun 02
Posts: 455
Credit: 2,422,890
RAC: 1
United States
Message 1322554 - Posted: 31 Dec 2012, 10:22:21 UTC

I find it ironic that no one has yet pointed out that while schools

provide education that no child need be limited to this education.

If my child was to enter school today the first thing I would do

would be to barrow my child's books after home work on the first day

and read them.

seeing the horrible state that education is in, I would help my child

with the required work and then see to it that he or she got enough more

to be able to learn independently of school so they could learn what interested

them.

The best teaching method is 1 teacher and 1 student

this is called the Socratic method, the schools do not have time for this

so the parent frequently is the only candidate for the first child at least.
ID: 1322554 · Report as offensive
rob smith Crowdfunding Project Donor*Special Project $75 donorSpecial Project $250 donor
Volunteer moderator
Volunteer tester

Send message
Joined: 7 Mar 03
Posts: 22158
Credit: 416,307,556
RAC: 380
United Kingdom
Message 1322597 - Posted: 31 Dec 2012, 12:32:18 UTC

Today's x-box generation of children are, in the main, the product of the preceding tv-box generation. they were taught by being planted on the floor in front of s screen with garish moving pictures, and shouted words by inane so called "children's presenters". The progress to the x-box (generic term) is even less educational with even more inane blobs that make noises, shoot, splat...
Parents, indeed family and society as a whole have a "duty of care" to ensure that children are taught, not only the "3-Rs", but also essential life skills, such as how to interact with other humans of all ages. Most of today's adults all too often see children as a "necessary inconvenience", not as our future.
Bob Smith
Member of Seti PIPPS (Pluto is a Planet Protest Society)
Somewhere in the (un)known Universe?
ID: 1322597 · Report as offensive
Profile Scary Capitalist
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 21 May 01
Posts: 7404
Credit: 97,085
RAC: 0
United States
Message 1332206 - Posted: 28 Jan 2013, 11:43:06 UTC - in response to Message 1322554.  

How dare you!!!!!

What gives you the right to assume responsibility over your own child. Your offspring are members of society and should be governed accordingly. They don't exist for their own happiness. The greatest moral life for them consists of serving others and consequently the state. How SELFISH!
Founder of BOINC team Objectivists. Oh the humanity! Rational people crunching data!
I did NOT authorize this belly writing!

ID: 1332206 · Report as offensive
W-K 666 Project Donor
Volunteer tester

Send message
Joined: 18 May 99
Posts: 19012
Credit: 40,757,560
RAC: 67
United Kingdom
Message 1332218 - Posted: 28 Jan 2013, 13:23:43 UTC

Scary, thanks for bringing this back to the top, thought I was going to have to go hunting for this thread.

The Chief Inspector of Schools In England, Sir Michael Wilshaw, has said in the Telegraph, Brightest pupils failed by state schools

Sir Michael Wilshaw has ordered an urgent “rapid response survey” of how state schools teach the most able children. It will be the most extensive investigation of gifted and talented provision undertaken by the watchdog.

The “landmark” report, to be published in the spring, will address fears that children who get top marks in primary school are being let down by some secondary school teachers who leave them to coast rather than stretch them to achieve the best exam results.


Also in the Guardians Teacher Blog, Secret Teacher: A levels do need fixing, but not how Michael Gove suggests
____________________________________________________________________________

One of the subjects often brought up is Maths, and those that decide what is taught in Maths. Somehow the area's covered has changed and for science and engineering what is taught in schools is no longer fit for purpose. This is brought home in The Engineering Council - Measuring the Mathematics Problem (pdf)

The findings are on page iii.

This led me to a comparison of 13 and 14 year olds for the years 1976 and 2008in Algrebra, ratio's and fractions, and decimals. Secondary students' Understanding of Mathematics 30 years on (pdf)

What is surprising is that even though things have changed there is very little difference over the years.

Which again led my on to Using maths to estimate the exam grade values


As a worked example, what is a GCSE grade A* today worth in 1993 terms? We use maths as the comparison subject, and note in GCSE today 5.5% of candidates get an A*. Being in the top 5.5% in 2012 corresponds to being in the top 15.5% in 1993, which would be a middle B grade. So today's A* GCSE is worth a middle B grade in 1993. Equally today's A grade GCSE would be a C grade in 1993 GCSE, or in old money an A grade in GCSE is a "pass" in O level maths. For context, in 1977 around 20% of girls and 40% of boys got an O level pass or equivalent; today around 16% of students get the equivalent (A or A* GCSE) reflecting the very gradual decline in overall standards over the period.

Similarly an A* in A level today corresponds to the top 17% of that cohort, which would be equivalent to top 27% in 1993, a "B" grade. An A* A-level today is worth a B grade as recently as 20 years ago.


Of course I did have to check what my two "B"s and a "C" at A level that I got in 1964 would be in today's exams. http://www.compare-exams.com/
ID: 1332218 · Report as offensive
W-K 666 Project Donor
Volunteer tester

Send message
Joined: 18 May 99
Posts: 19012
Credit: 40,757,560
RAC: 67
United Kingdom
Message 1333236 - Posted: 31 Jan 2013, 18:33:51 UTC

They are at it again.

Four US states considering laws that challenge teaching of evolution

Critics charge 'academic freedom' legislation in Colorado, Missouri, Montana and Oklahoma is just creationism in disguise

Four US states are considering new legislation about teaching science in schools, allowing pupils to to be taught religious versions of how life on earth developed in what critics say would establish a backdoor way of questioning the theory of evolution.

Fresh legislation has been put forward in Colorado, Missouri and Montana. In Oklahoma, there are two bills before the state legislature that include potentially creationist language.
ID: 1333236 · Report as offensive
bobby
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 22 Mar 02
Posts: 2866
Credit: 17,789,109
RAC: 3
United States
Message 1333387 - Posted: 1 Feb 2013, 2:09:59 UTC - in response to Message 1322586.  

Most kids now are either created after Saturday night down the pub, or deliberately as a meal ticket to get more social money. Parents drag 'em up until 5 then hand them over to the state education system, and then effectively wash their hands of them.


Chris, I don't know what it is you have seen that leads you to make these sweeping statements about current parenting, though it's not been my experience. If this is merely opinion stated as fact, fine, otherwise please provide data to back them up.
I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that ...

ID: 1333387 · Report as offensive
W-K 666 Project Donor
Volunteer tester

Send message
Joined: 18 May 99
Posts: 19012
Credit: 40,757,560
RAC: 67
United Kingdom
Message 1337382 - Posted: 12 Feb 2013, 8:25:26 UTC

Another article explaining the "race to the bottom" of today's education policies, this one in the USA and the effects of "No Child Left Behind".

A warning to college profs from a high school teacher

A good insight into the problems facing school teachers, even if you disagree with my view point.
ID: 1337382 · Report as offensive
Profile Gary Charpentier Crowdfunding Project Donor*Special Project $75 donorSpecial Project $250 donor
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 25 Dec 00
Posts: 30608
Credit: 53,134,872
RAC: 32
United States
Message 1343733 - Posted: 7 Mar 2013, 14:30:05 UTC

ID: 1343733 · Report as offensive
Profile dancer42
Volunteer tester

Send message
Joined: 2 Jun 02
Posts: 455
Credit: 2,422,890
RAC: 1
United States
Message 1343968 - Posted: 8 Mar 2013, 5:07:30 UTC

when i was younger i worked for a computer store.

this store install a 4 year learning program written by McGraw-Hill

in a junior high.

the slowest kid in the school went though the entire 4 years of material

in 9 months.

now these kids were allowed to do this program as much as they wanted

instead of the limited time a day that it was designed for.
ID: 1343968 · Report as offensive
W-K 666 Project Donor
Volunteer tester

Send message
Joined: 18 May 99
Posts: 19012
Credit: 40,757,560
RAC: 67
United Kingdom
Message 1345193 - Posted: 11 Mar 2013, 4:50:07 UTC

If you care about education then you must read this,

‘I have had enough’ – veteran teacher tells school board
ID: 1345193 · Report as offensive
Profile dancer42
Volunteer tester

Send message
Joined: 2 Jun 02
Posts: 455
Credit: 2,422,890
RAC: 1
United States
Message 1345270 - Posted: 11 Mar 2013, 12:02:06 UTC

by route learning is hard on both student and teacher, but computers in this role

have infinite patients and can be geared to see patterns in the child's learning,

and individualize the material presentation to each child, freeing the teacher to

help children with the problems they still do not get.
ID: 1345270 · Report as offensive
Profile dancer42
Volunteer tester

Send message
Joined: 2 Jun 02
Posts: 455
Credit: 2,422,890
RAC: 1
United States
Message 1345282 - Posted: 11 Mar 2013, 12:37:04 UTC - in response to Message 1345275.  
Last modified: 11 Mar 2013, 12:37:59 UTC

Hi dancer, I have corrected a couple of typos for you.

"by rote learning" and "have infinite patience"

Computers in the classroom are simply audio visual teaching aids. It is far more effective to employ group learning and pairing with the buddy system, to deal with differentiation. At least that is what the teacher training course PGCE advocates.


i apologize for the dyslexia

each student is a mix of auditory, visual, and textural learning, for each child

this mix is different, to teach to a group is at best to teach to the low middle

of the group.

to use buddy's that are poorly matched is worse that no help at all.

with today's computers it is easy to customize the presentation to best support each child.

the teachers are still there to teach, the computers will simply take over the

most tedious portion of this task.

p.s. thanks for the correction.
ID: 1345282 · Report as offensive
W-K 666 Project Donor
Volunteer tester

Send message
Joined: 18 May 99
Posts: 19012
Credit: 40,757,560
RAC: 67
United Kingdom
Message 1345286 - Posted: 11 Mar 2013, 12:42:06 UTC - in response to Message 1345270.  
Last modified: 11 Mar 2013, 12:58:40 UTC

I was under the impression that learning by rote was frowned upon these days. That kids these days do not learn the multiplication tables by endless repition, or history by a list of dates etc. etc.

How much time should teaching staff spend on underperforming students? and if they do spend time on these students are they not ignoring the best students by not having the time to push them to higher levels.

I ask this because a lot of school education resources were spent on one of my sons, to no effect. And the other was ignored because he is intelligent and didn't need help to meet the schools targets of exam passes.
The son where they spent lots of time and money on is Autistic, and is still effectively an eleven year old. The other son went to good universities, now MSc, but if he had been given an extra push should probably have gone to Oxbridge.
ID: 1345286 · Report as offensive
Profile dancer42
Volunteer tester

Send message
Joined: 2 Jun 02
Posts: 455
Credit: 2,422,890
RAC: 1
United States
Message 1345483 - Posted: 11 Mar 2013, 19:10:12 UTC

when allowed to progress at their own pace the junior high i mentioned earlier

had the slowest student there go though 4 years of material in 9 months

the fastest were done in 3.

it is possible with computer aided learning to push all the kids all the time.

and to push then in a manner that is best suited to get results for each child.

teaching to the group slows down everybody not just the bright ones.


ID: 1345483 · Report as offensive
Profile dancer42
Volunteer tester

Send message
Joined: 2 Jun 02
Posts: 455
Credit: 2,422,890
RAC: 1
United States
Message 1345715 - Posted: 12 Mar 2013, 5:28:39 UTC - in response to Message 1345547.  

teaching to the group slows down everybody not just the bright ones.

Sorry Dancer you are quite wrong.

Firstly, a trained teacher will deal with the differentiation by planning in advance of the lesson. They will often pair the brightest pupils with the ones that are struggling. The clever ones will feel valued in the teacher allowing them to help their classmates, and the struggling ones can often learn better by a peer showing them, rather than a formal instruction by the teacher.

Secondly, all teachers will have prepared extra work before hand, and often at a higher level than the average of the class. So the brightest can be stretched when they complete the easier tasks.

Computer aided learning, or self tuition sometimes has it's place, but usually in FE. For example, when I took the ECDL the College I was at had self learning, you worked your way through the course work at your own pace asking for help when necessary. It works with adults, probably not with 10 year olds. Go and talk to a fully trained teacher and ask them how they deal with a class of different abilities.



this is dancers room mate

i went to the normal classes in the Norman Oklahoma public school system. i had

many teachers tell me that i was beyond their class but they couldn't do

anything about it because of bureaucracy. i spent my class room time (except for

the 15 minutes to actually do the homework) reading fictional books. i got so

board with school that i ended up hitchhiking around the country when i should

have been graduating.


i have many times in both my school days and my adult life talked to teachers

in the public school system. over 90% of those I've talked to have told me

that they cannot give the bright students the time they need because there are

to many students in their classes and their standing is degraded if they don't

get everyone to pass.
ID: 1345715 · Report as offensive
Profile dancer42
Volunteer tester

Send message
Joined: 2 Jun 02
Posts: 455
Credit: 2,422,890
RAC: 1
United States
Message 1345716 - Posted: 12 Mar 2013, 5:39:39 UTC

i had the same thing happen 15 years before with the caveat that the excuse of

bureaucracy and testing were not valid.

and being paired badly with several bad students i was driven to conniptions

trying to explain the simplest things to slower student wasting much of my time to

little effect.

and while i had a few good teachers they were handicapped by class size and could

only do so much.
ID: 1345716 · Report as offensive
Profile Gary Charpentier Crowdfunding Project Donor*Special Project $75 donorSpecial Project $250 donor
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 25 Dec 00
Posts: 30608
Credit: 53,134,872
RAC: 32
United States
Message 1345835 - Posted: 12 Mar 2013, 14:47:39 UTC - in response to Message 1345547.  

teaching to the group slows down everybody not just the bright ones.

Sorry Dancer you are quite wrong.

I think I've seen you post about tracks in the UK schools. There are no tracks in USA schools. The morons sit in the same class as the gifted. The class is taught with the aim of getting the most passing scores on the standardized test. Better the pass rate the more $ for the school.

ID: 1345835 · Report as offensive
Previous · 1 . . . 11 · 12 · 13 · 14 · 15 · 16 · 17 . . . 19 · Next

Message boards : Politics : Parents role in Education ?


 
©2024 University of California
 
SETI@home and Astropulse are funded by grants from the National Science Foundation, NASA, and donations from SETI@home volunteers. AstroPulse is funded in part by the NSF through grant AST-0307956.