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Message 1177685 - Posted: 13 Dec 2011, 7:27:55 UTC
Last modified: 13 Dec 2011, 7:30:01 UTC

In an earlier message in another topic, bill said,

"S@H should implement a high speed line for the heavy users.
Then charge for usage."

Of course, I commented sarcastically. Cynically. Caustically. No, not "at" Bill but just about the sorry state of affairs worldwide.

...buutttt, the more I think about it, this idea actually has merit. No, really. You can't "charge" to join the project, but that doesn't mean you can't implement the idea.

We burn-up what? $5-8k per month in connectivity money for the project? Pick a number, any number will do.

Have you guys ever seen the charitable appeals that go this way, "For your tax deductible donation of $50, we'll send you, absolutely free, this keepsake faux diamond necklace coated with 'real glycerine vibraphone'. For a donation of $100, along with your faux diamond necklace, we'll send a VHS-C copy of '101 More Things to do in Zero Gravity.'"

(apologies to both Monty Python and Douglas Adams)

If that can be done, then certainly it should be doable to say, "For your contribution of only $250/year, not only will you get this neat keepsake certificate bearing your user ID and a count of your trillions of floating point calculations (that you print yourself), but you also get a preferred route to our servers."

Now, I have ZERO idea of how that would be done, but think for a second ----

If 1,000 crunchers did that, it would net the project 250,000 smackeroos. That's some dough, bread, wampum, and a big ol' stack of dollar bills.

There would be incentive to donate. That would more than cover the cost of getting the $80k line pulled up or down the hill so the project could use all the bandwidth it pays for, and those who don't want to donate, or can't, would be no worse off than they are now. EDIT - In fact, they'd be better-off, too since the donors would not be fighting with them for a connection.

Yes, you'd have to limit it somehow so that someone didn't donate expecting a preferred connection only to find-out that everyone else had donated and the other 900Mbps is as crowded as the original 100Mbps.

So it would have to be... oh, "The first 2,000 respondents will receive..." That's half a Mil. If we didn't use the full $500k on communications; well... BONUS! Mark gets lunch at Wendy's as a new perk... or the guys get to go to Waterbar on us once a month or something.

The "opportunity" to contribute more work to the project would have no monetary value to the donors, so it isn't like they would "receive value" and cause a tax problem, would it?

Does that sound doable, or am I just spitting in the wind?

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Message 1177688 - Posted: 13 Dec 2011, 8:10:30 UTC - in response to Message 1177685.

I was thinking along the lines of a toll road
or high speed lane. X amount of money would let
you use a server with secure login for Y amount
of work units. 2X would get you 2Y. But how ever
it works monetarily you would get high speed,
no back offs, no retries, no bs messages,
pure, unadulterated, throughput.

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Message 1177689 - Posted: 13 Dec 2011, 8:18:36 UTC - in response to Message 1177688.

I was thinking along the lines of a toll road
or high speed lane. X amount of money would let
you use a server with secure login for Y amount
of work units. 2X would get you 2Y. But how ever
it works monetarily you would get high speed,
no back offs, no retries, no bs messages,
pure, unadulterated, throughput.



I like it from so many angles, I hope someone will think about it.

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Message 1177714 - Posted: 13 Dec 2011, 10:06:22 UTC - in response to Message 1177698.
Last modified: 13 Dec 2011, 10:13:10 UTC

Full access should be available to all.....
No matter their RAC or donation status.

That's just the way Boinc is supposed to be.

Now, having said that, there are times when I have wished I could buy a fast track to more WUs.


We've been trying that whole "fair thing."

"Thousand points of light..."

"From each according to his ability. to each according to his work unit limitation."

To paraphrase; The problem is you eventually run out of other people's bandwidth.

Forget the "privileged" angle. If the privileged can pay a little and do more work, and that keeps the underprivileged in work and helps them see their favorite project make progress; who is actually privileged?

There would be no shame in subsidizing everyone else and getting a little "appreciation" in return.

EDIT - We're already doing that. I don't contribute like the corporate sponsors and I don't feel the least bit guilty or inferior. I understand that if I called the lab I'd get put on hold indefinitely and the corporate sponsors would get a "Yes sir!" immediately. Anyone who thinks it should be otherwise is suffering from some form of disease where their utopian lobe is pushing the rest of their brain out of the way.

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Message 1177721 - Posted: 13 Dec 2011, 10:24:59 UTC - in response to Message 1177718.


I might agree only if it were certain that allowing some participants to buy a 'stairway to heaven' would not further hinder those who do not wish to or cannot afford to pay the ferryman. And with the way the scheduler and feeder are currently functioning, I cannot see that being the case.


Aye!

That's why I made the point of limiting the number so that the whole bandwidth cannot be chewed-up. We'd be off-loading the big rigs that want the work, so the "average cruncher" would not be competing with those who opted for the fast access. They'd have the current access all to themselves.

I'm no tyrant or kill-joy.

But more to the point; will we all be equally disappointed when this thing starts coughing-up blood?

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Message 1177783 - Posted: 13 Dec 2011, 16:14:53 UTC - in response to Message 1177685.

...but you also get a preferred route to our servers."

Now, I have ZERO idea of how that would be done, but think for a second ----

If 1,000 crunchers did that, it would net the project 250,000 smackeroos. That's some dough, bread, wampum, and a big ol' stack of dollar bills.

There would be incentive to donate. That would more than cover the cost of getting the $80k line pulled up or down the hill so the project could use all the bandwidth it pays for, and those who don't want to donate, or can't, would be no worse off than they are now. EDIT - In fact, they'd be better-off, too since the donors would not be fighting with them for a connection.

Yes, you'd have to limit it somehow so that someone didn't donate expecting a preferred connection only to find-out that everyone else had donated and the other 900Mbps is as crowded as the original 100Mbps.
...

And if there are only 25 donations of $250? Not enough money for the new line...
Joe

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Message 1177790 - Posted: 13 Dec 2011, 16:30:45 UTC

I like the idea. We would only need 320 @ $250 to like the idea enough to reach the $80K goal.

Maybe a new GPUUG fund drive idea?
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Message 1177859 - Posted: 13 Dec 2011, 23:36:08 UTC - in response to Message 1177783.
Last modified: 13 Dec 2011, 23:40:48 UTC

...but you also get a preferred route to our servers."

Now, I have ZERO idea of how that would be done, but think for a second ----

If 1,000 crunchers did that, it would net the project 250,000 smackeroos. That's some dough, bread, wampum, and a big ol' stack of dollar bills.

There would be incentive to donate. That would more than cover the cost of getting the $80k line pulled up or down the hill so the project could use all the bandwidth it pays for, and those who don't want to donate, or can't, would be no worse off than they are now. EDIT - In fact, they'd be better-off, too since the donors would not be fighting with them for a connection.

Yes, you'd have to limit it somehow so that someone didn't donate expecting a preferred connection only to find-out that everyone else had donated and the other 900Mbps is as crowded as the original 100Mbps.
...

And if there are only 25 donations of $250? Not enough money for the new line...
Joe


You make a very good point. For some period of time we would be in "transition."

I was thinking that the money would come long before the new line, not that the new line would be the "goal" of the money. I would hope that the project would use the money for the communications side, though. But then... you hand any group of people money and competing interests argue and the politics starts.

It was just a continued comment on bills thought - a way to improve the transfer speeds and raise the money to do it at the same time.

EDIT - You know with the "millions" of crunchers that are constantly touted as being out there (we know it's a fraction of that), if 0.5%, particularly the top crunchers with thousands invested in rigs to crunch mightily, participated I just have to believe some significant money would flow into the project even if it was nowhere close to $250k.

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Message 1177868 - Posted: 13 Dec 2011, 23:50:53 UTC - in response to Message 1177790.

I like the idea. We would only need 320 @ $250 to like the idea enough to reach the $80K goal.

Maybe a new GPUUG fund drive idea?


This is one of those things that would have to come from the lab itself, I would imagine.

Since everything our project does has to be okay-ed by higher-ups, even if the project or a donor raises the money, and since this is a Berkeley thing (the line), I'm thinking the only way Eric, Matt, et al, could promise anyone anything (or even dangle a carrot) would be if the project was able to get pre-approval.

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Message 1177870 - Posted: 13 Dec 2011, 23:53:34 UTC - in response to Message 1177859.

...snipped........
EDIT - You know with the "millions" of crunchers that are constantly touted as being out there (we know it's a fraction of that), if 0.5%, particularly the top crunchers with thousands invested in rigs to crunch mightily, participated I just have to believe some significant money would flow into the project even if it was nowhere close to $250k.

Actually the current numbers are, <150,000 active users and just over 220,000 active hosts, so nowhere even close to a million let alone millions. ;)

Cheers.
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Message 1177873 - Posted: 13 Dec 2011, 23:57:32 UTC

I think, the crunchers are already paying enough.
Time to get uploads and downloads working(manually), the electricity used, the hardware purchased.
Get the money from the military, as they are supposed to fund seti now, to listen to Kepler 22A.

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Message 1177877 - Posted: 14 Dec 2011, 0:00:55 UTC - in response to Message 1177873.

I think, the crunchers are already paying enough.
Time to get uploads and downloads working(manually), the electricity used, the hardware purchased.
Get the money from the military, as they are supposed to fund seti now, to listen to Kepler 22A.

You are confusing the SETI Institute with SETI@home there. ;)

Cheers.
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Message 1177878 - Posted: 14 Dec 2011, 0:02:12 UTC - in response to Message 1177724.


Transfusions are on the way........
And at a pretty good pace too.

I shall once again ask all who are able to donate toward the GPUUG fund drive.
It is being targeted to hardware only. And closely coordinated with the Seti staff to meet their desired needs.


Apparently you and others know stuff that isn't being shared with the whole community. I guess there's a limit to the democratization after-all.

The public understanding is that we are bandwidth constrained. There has been no explanation I've seen on how proving a bigger, faster, reservoir of work on one end of the pipe is going to solve the bandwidth issue.

Are we saying that bandwidth isn't the issue and that a light-speed RAID array is going to fix the problems?

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Message 1177879 - Posted: 14 Dec 2011, 0:03:53 UTC

What I see being said for some of us (I am on a very LOW FIXED BUDGET.)...Is that we can't pony up with a large "Donation" should be fed the Leftovers?
Bull Puckey!!!
I happen to Love this Volunteer Citizen/"Setizen" Science Project.
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Message 1177883 - Posted: 14 Dec 2011, 0:11:52 UTC - in response to Message 1177685.

"For your contribution of only $25/year...you get a preferred route to our servers."


That is so a$$-backwards, it just might work !!

Now you've got me all freaked out.

I want that bandwidth. I NEED that bandwidth. And I'm willing to pay for it !!

Alls they gots to do it throw in a separate Interwebs line with a router on a
different IP address than is resolved now.
When you've paid your annual fee, you become a "preferred bandwidth cruncher"
and they can send an update to BOINC to the new IP address.

They can work out the details. But it's do-able, and I bet there's a whole
pack of salivating dudes out there who'd make an annual donation to buy in.

It would also take the load off the regular Interwebs connection, thus freeing
up bandwidth to the non-preferred crunchers.

It's a WIN - WIN situation !!!!1!!!!!!


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Message 1177884 - Posted: 14 Dec 2011, 0:14:43 UTC - in response to Message 1177870.

...snipped........
EDIT - You know with the "millions" of crunchers that are constantly touted as being out there (we know it's a fraction of that), if 0.5%, particularly the top crunchers with thousands invested in rigs to crunch mightily, participated I just have to believe some significant money would flow into the project even if it was nowhere close to $250k.

Actually the current numbers are, <150,000 active users and just over 220,000 active hosts, so nowhere even close to a million let alone millions. ;)

Cheers.


I'm glad I'm not the only one who knows this.

I get fatigued by the comments that SETI@Home is used by "millions worldwide" and that somehow it has to serve millions worldwide as some sort of universal "we are the world" hand-holding / international relations / psycho-babble counseling service.

Personally (and nobody has to join me in this), I'm interested in knowing if there is any noise out there that indicates that we aren't (or at least "weren't at one time") alone. I could not care less about how good we all feel about ourselves if that gets in the way of progress in our investigation.

The reason we aren't being eaten by parasites and predators is because we made progress. The instrument of the poorest of our planet's population's advancement is progress made where advancement was made possible. It's time to advance some more, not be all squishy and feel-good.

In my opinion.

So 200 pony-up $250/year. That's better than a poke in the eye with a sharp stick.

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Message 1177885 - Posted: 14 Dec 2011, 0:18:29 UTC - in response to Message 1177879.

What I see being said for some of us (I am on a very LOW FIXED BUDGET.)...Is that we can't pony up with a large "Donation" should be fed the Leftovers?
Bull Puckey!!!
I happen to Love this Volunteer Citizen/"Setizen" Science Project.


Yeah Jim, that is a stupid idea. I pay hundreds of dollars each year in electricity bills (in Europe electricity costs) just to run my computers for SETI. That is my donation to SETI, and that donation is delivered as results into the system. That donation is worth exactly dollar by dollar as much as the dollars others donate directly to SETI.

So, I already donate hundreds of dollars to SETI. Is it now going to be some other stupid scheme for those who can, to pay for fast access to the work units?

Geeze, that was a moronic idea, one that we've heard over the years before, put in other words...

And now I will fall off my chair in disbelief....
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