But Nick, I do pay my taxes -- all of them. Now for two months back in 1979 I did collect unemployment.

Baz, whilst you'r a source of government tax revenue then at least you'll know
that "your government needs you"...it's nice to feel wonted.

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The Kite Fliers

--------------------
Kite fliers: An imaginary club of solo members, those who don't yet
belong to a formal team so "fly their own kites" - as the saying goes.

Good point, but to make that reparations - -make it retroactive to say about 2002.

You forgot this one...

5) Enforce Tax collection

I hope your right on that because should the US get involved, our muppets will end up supporting you.

Not that i'm against that, but using our troops as allies while at the same time cutting their manpower, equipment etc.......

...but they're not the ones being hit by I.E.D.'s....

..also, where's the money going to come from?

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I hope your right on that because should the US get involved, our muppets will end up supporting you.

Not that i'm against that, but using our troops as allies while at the same time cutting their manpower, equipment etc.......

...but they're not the ones being hit by I.E.D.'s....

..also, where's the money going to come from?

That's similarly what occurred running up to WW2, cutting manpower and equipment.
As long as it doesn't become our war then we, just like the Americans, can
make some money out of it for once.

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The Kite Fliers

--------------------
Kite fliers: An imaginary club of solo members, those who don't yet
belong to a formal team so "fly their own kites" - as the saying goes.

A flashback to Europe's past....


"During this same period, Churchill was instrumental in defeating a proposal in the Cabinet, by Foreign Secretary Austen Chamberlain for a defense pact with France based upon maintaining the Versailles treaty and guaranteeing Britain would come to France's aid if attacked by Germany. Churchill was opposed to helping France until she backed off the oppressive terms of Versailles and agreed to a "real peace" with Germany, one which involved a "substantial rectification" of Germany's frontier with Poland. As Churchill had earlier told the French President, Doumergue, he "was personally convinced that [Germany] would never acquiesce permanently in the condition of her eastern frontier." Without such a revision, Churchill presciently told the Committee of Imperial Defense, a new war loomed on the horizon over Poland:

"This war which has occurred between France and Germany several times has broken up the world. What guarantee have we got while things are going as they are that we shall not have another war. In fact, it seems as if we were moving towards it, although it may not be for twenty years, certainly not until Germany has been able to acquire some methods of waging war, chemically or otherwise."

In March, the senior Cabinet ministers assembled, in Austen Chamberlain's absence in Paris, and endorsed Churchill's view that no defense pact with France would be concluded unless it included an arrangement with Germany as well."


source: Winston Churchill Biography

Not much in politics has changed in 87 years then......

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Do the math. 100,000 worker bees get what $100.00 each or the boss gets $10,000,000.00.

So you're voting for the staus quo to stay as it is then.....Not a white collar worker are you?

Do the math!

People are screaming as if each of them is going to get a winning lotto ticket if management didn't pay itself what the shareholders say they are worth. BTW who is the big shareholder?

No need to do the math..... Can you justify this?

"The pay row threatens to escalate over this year's bonus season as more bumper payouts are awarded, including to American Bob Diamond, head of Barclays, who caused waves last year by saying the time for banker remorse was over.

Diamond was awarded a £6,500,000 bonus in 2011. The average British household income is 26,000 pounds after tax".

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certainly not until Germany has been able to acquire some methods of waging war, chemically or otherwise."

The only way I see Germany ever getting involved in another war would be to
protect it's own borders. Still, a lot of water yet to flow under the bridge,
and where there's strife there's bound to be found a war monger around.
At least here we are on our toes regarding the potential of conflict. So lets
hope our governments too are on their toes hence take all necessary actions to
mitigate any potential conflicts within Europe. To this end the safest thing
to do regarding Greece is to kick it out of the Euro, let it devalue and
start to become competitive again. It's pretty clear to me that if this chap
gets in here in Greece who intends to rip up the austerity package then
they will just spend and spend at the rest of the ECM's cost. Some big boys
in finance institutions are going to loose millions and millions of dollars
and to recover their losses will promote war to their governments, via lobbying, as one
option in recovering those losses.
For not only will the finance institution be loosing money so will many
governments too. Where will these institutions place their remaining money?
in vehicles that finance this war.

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The Kite Fliers

--------------------
Kite fliers: An imaginary club of solo members, those who don't yet
belong to a formal team so "fly their own kites" - as the saying goes.

Yes, & that's why this crisis has to resolved sooner rather than later. It's only going to take one leader with the full backing of their country to lock things down, which will then escalate to others....

..while at the top, hands will be rubbed with glee at the money returning.

As for "no war"... Just what are the Americans & Nato forces doing in Iraq & Afghanistan?

We have Egypt, Libya, Syria & possibly others in a renewed Arab Spring, so that's the Middle East up in flames, Europe dithering...it's only going to take one....

...IMV, China will be watching matters very very closely indeed.

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Diamond was awarded a £6,500,000 bonus in 2011. The average British household income is 26,000 pounds after tax".

You have to laugh, Sirius; banks have never had it so easy when it comes
to producing profits. Loan off the government at 0.5% loan it out to the
public at between 5 and 8%, finance the credit card side of the business
and earn returns of 19% and in the process pay the boss £6.5 million on top
of his salary. These finance institution bosses are not miracle makers,
most were found to be kings without any clothes on. I suspect that once this
depression has finally run it's course then most institutions will tell their
heads, "Make a profit or else your sacked", here your salary, take it or leave
it.

---

The Kite Fliers

--------------------
Kite fliers: An imaginary club of solo members, those who don't yet
belong to a formal team so "fly their own kites" - as the saying goes.

No need to do the math..... Can you justify this?

"The pay row threatens to escalate over this year's bonus season as more bumper payouts are awarded, including to American Bob Diamond, head of Barclays, who caused waves last year by saying the time for banker remorse was over.

Diamond was awarded a £6,500,000 bonus in 2011. The average British household income is 26,000 pounds after tax".

Were that a true statement. Fact check. Bonus was £2,700,000. Total compensation was less at £6,300,000!
http://reports.barclays.com/ar11/servicepages/downloads/files/entire_barclays_ar2011.pdf <page 31>
The press likes to lie to spice things up a bit.

Total income for Barclays was <page 4> £32,292,000,000. That means his bonus was only 0.008% of income.

I'm telling you do your own math. It is more telling of just how little real education is needed to yell and scream in print. Or you are intentionally being lied to by socialists with an agenda. Take your pick.

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You're missing the point. No individual is worth £2.7 mill or £6.5 mill. The bonuses are out of all porportion in respect of salaried positions.

It's exactly that reasoning of yours that the world economies are in the mess they're in!

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You're missing the point. No individual is worth £2.7 mill or £6.5 mill. The bonuses are out of all porportion in respect of salaried positions.

It's exactly that reasoning of yours that the world economies are in the mess they're in!

I get it, you miss it. I asked what a reasonable % was up the thread. Sales people get 2% to 10% of the sale. What you are saying is that no business should be allowed to be over about a ten million in sales.

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Gary, I think what Sirius and others are getting at is that the proposition advanced setting forth executive compensation as a percentage of sales or profits is something of a straw man argument. Executives are employees as well.

Gary, I think what Sirius and others are getting at is that the proposition advanced setting forth executive compensation as a percentage of sales or profits is something of a straw man argument. Executives are employees as well.

He is arguing against commissions or performance based compensation. Essentially he is arguing against capitalism and for get the job, grab the check, sit on fat a**, everyone only do minimum required work.

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Gary, not quite, he is arguing against commissions based compensation for administrative executives (which is what most top management at major corporations are). That isn't an argument against capitalism. If you will it is suggesting that 'piece rate' compensation doesn't apply to top executives.

There is a difference here.

Frankly, I don't see much evil in limiting compensation at the top end to something in the high 7 figures with VERY few exceptions. Then again, the idea of a professional sports player making $25M a year strikes is as a bit over the top as well.

Arguing against these over the top compensation packages can be seen as arguing for capitalism by reducing one of its most trouble excesses.

All this is happening because we are approaching an economics top in the
world. Once the lid has blown off most of these guys will be out of a job
so fair market rules will come back into play. Ten's of them chasing one
job and not one of them daring to raise the issue of bonuses at the interview.
The mention of bonus will become a swear word unless of course your a salesman.

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The Kite Fliers

--------------------
Kite fliers: An imaginary club of solo members, those who don't yet
belong to a formal team so "fly their own kites" - as the saying goes.

An example, which currency dosen't matter as numbers are numbers.

A company gives a 3% payrise across the board.

An employee on 12,000 per annum gets an increase of 360

The head man on 400,000 gets an increase of 12,000

Economy goes down, company has to introduce cost cutting, employee on 12,360 laid off. Head man gets another 3% rise for protecting the company - how much extra has it cost the company?

answer... Zero

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No need for that. Just return to the old way of having fixed payrise brackets. It's the % game that is causing all the problems.

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