Speed of light broken again as scientists test neutrino result

Message boards : Science (non-SETI) : Speed of light broken again as scientists test neutrino result

Author	Message
Jason Safoutin Volunteer tester Send message Joined: 8 Sep 05 Posts: 1386 Credit: 200,389 RAC: 0	Message 1172277 - Posted: 19 Nov 2011, 19:29:00 UTC Last modified: 19 Nov 2011, 19:31:43 UTC
	I think I started a previous thread on this matter, but can't find it so I am starting a new one because of new developments. Speed of light broken again as scientists test neutrino result The speed of light appears to have been broken again after scientists carried out a new set of experiments to test measurements that could require the laws of physics to be rewritten. The researchers behind the experiments, which involved sending neutrino particles 450 miles through the ground from the CERN facility in Geneva to the Gran Sasso laboratory in Italy, have now attempted to rule out one possible source of error. By tweaking the experiment in an attempt to address a potential flaw in their original experiment, they again showed that the neutrons arrived at the Italian site some 60 billionths of a second faster than if they had been travelling at the speed of light. Scientists have posted new results that confirm measurements made in September that a beam of subatomic particles had travelled faster than the speed of light. The initial result caused widespread debate as it appeared to break one of the most fundamental laws of physics – that nothing can travel faster than the speed of light. The findings have proved troubling for scientists as it goes against Albert Einstein's law of special relativity and opens up the possibility of being able to send information back in time. This really does amaze me. Even if there was an error in the first test (which so far they have yet to find evidence of), this test yielded the same results...TWICE! This is incredible for science. The amount of things we could do if we were able to harness such power in small spaces at a constant, would be near endless. This could very well be a new era of science we never thought possible. ____________ "By faith we understand that the universe was formed at God's command, so that what is seen was not made out of what was visible". Hebrews 11.3
	ID: 1172277 ·

skildude Send message Joined: 4 Oct 00 Posts: 8944 Credit: 36,826,422 RAC: 61,146	Message 1172318 - Posted: 19 Nov 2011, 21:38:34 UTC - in response to Message 1172277.
	read this thread ____________ Proud member of TSWB. End terrorism by building a school
	ID: 1172318 ·

ML1 Volunteer tester Send message Joined: 25 Nov 01 Posts: 7141 Credit: 3,687,310 RAC: 965	Message 1172341 - Posted: 19 Nov 2011, 23:55:23 UTC - in response to Message 1172277. Last modified: 19 Nov 2011, 23:56:20 UTC
	... the same results...TWICE! This is incredible for science. The amount of things we could do ... The repeat of the results is reassuring in that Gran Sasso are consistent for their measurements. That still leaves working through some further checks for them to be sure of what exactly they are measuring... See some of my guesses in the other thread. There's a long way to go yet before suggesting anything 'faster than light'. Meanwhile, even at mere normal light speed, their apparatus could make for a nicely fast internet connection through to the opposite side of the Earth! ;-) Keep searchin', Martin ____________ Mandriva Linux A user friendly OS! See new freedom Mageia2 The Future is what We make IT (GPLv3)
	ID: 1172341 ·

tullio Send message Joined: 9 Apr 04 Posts: 2919 Credit: 260,393 RAC: 314	Message 1172482 - Posted: 20 Nov 2011, 14:23:46 UTC
	They detected 16000 neutrinos out of billions in the first run and 20 in the second run. Even if a neutrino can carry a bit, this is not enough to transmit a signal. Tullio ____________
	ID: 1172482 ·

Cheng Fan Soon Send message Joined: 3 Oct 05 Posts: 61 Credit: 337,047 RAC: 1,950	Message 1172582 - Posted: 20 Nov 2011, 22:00:42 UTC Last modified: 20 Nov 2011, 22:08:09 UTC
	But than why jets of matter from Quasar only able to move close to the speed of light, not exceed the speed of light? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quasar#Properties http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blazar#Relativistic_beaming
	ID: 1172582 ·

tullio Send message Joined: 9 Apr 04 Posts: 2919 Credit: 260,393 RAC: 314	Message 1172770 - Posted: 21 Nov 2011, 19:26:02 UTC Last modified: 21 Nov 2011, 19:26:59 UTC
	The neutrinos coming from the 1987A supernova arrived almost simultaneously with the photons, allowing for the time needed to the photons to escape the gravitational field of the supernova. This is still the biggest argument against the OPERA result. Tullio ____________
	ID: 1172770 ·

tullio Send message Joined: 9 Apr 04 Posts: 2919 Credit: 260,393 RAC: 314	Message 1172942 - Posted: 22 Nov 2011, 6:07:36 UTC - in response to Message 1172782.
	General relativity includes a theory of gravitational fields. Unified field theory, also by Einstein, tried to unify gravitation and electromagnetism. He did not consider the nuclear interactions, described by quantum field theories. They include both nuclear interactions and electromagnetism, but not gravitation. A Grand Unified Theory, also called a Theory of Everything, is still missing. Tullio ____________
	ID: 1172942 ·

tullio Send message Joined: 9 Apr 04 Posts: 2919 Credit: 260,393 RAC: 314	Message 1172960 - Posted: 22 Nov 2011, 8:49:40 UTC
	A post in theregister.co.uk says that another group of Italian physicists, ICARUS, puts into doubt the results of the OPERA cooperation with the same argument already used by Cohen and Glashow: superluminal neutrinos should generate photons and particle/antiparticle couples, like in the Cherenkov effect, which are not seen.The subject is open. Tullio ____________
	ID: 1172960 ·

Gary Charpentier Volunteer tester Send message Joined: 25 Dec 00 Posts: 10333 Credit: 5,111,470 RAC: 6,720	Message 1173019 - Posted: 22 Nov 2011, 14:54:53 UTC - in response to Message 1172960.
	A post in theregister.co.uk says that another group of Italian physicists, ICARUS, puts into doubt the results of the OPERA cooperation with the same argument already used by Cohen and Glashow: superluminal neutrinos should generate photons and particle/antiparticle couples, like in the Cherenkov effect, which are not seen.The subject is open. Tullio Love those circular arguments. The standard theory says it has do to ... but it doesn't so it can't. ____________
	ID: 1173019 ·

Duane Send message Joined: 23 Jun 08 Posts: 101 Credit: 1,131,111 RAC: 0	Message 1173067 - Posted: 22 Nov 2011, 21:49:09 UTC - in response to Message 1172770. Last modified: 22 Nov 2011, 21:56:03 UTC
	The neutrinos coming from the 1987A supernova arrived almost simultaneously with the photons, allowing for the time needed to the photons to escape the gravitational field of the supernova. This is still the biggest argument against the OPERA result. Tullio We still don't fully understand supernovas, though. Besides, the neutrinos were detected 3 hours before the visible light. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SN_1987A#Neutrino_emissions
	ID: 1173067 ·

tullio Send message Joined: 9 Apr 04 Posts: 2919 Credit: 260,393 RAC: 314	Message 1173157 - Posted: 23 Nov 2011, 5:40:17 UTC - in response to Message 1173067.
	We still don't fully understand supernovas, though. Besides, the neutrinos were detected 3 hours before the visible light. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SN_1987A#Neutrino_emissions Yes, that was the first detection by the Mont Blanc group which happened at 2:56 hours U.T. on February 23 1987.A second burst was detected at 7:35 hours at Kamiokande, IMB and Baksan, All this is described in an article by P.Galeotti, G.V.Pallottino and G.Pizzella "SN1987A; Revisiting the data and the correlation between neutrinos and gravitational detectors". I have a hard copy but I no longer remember the link. The article is dated 21 October 2008. Tullio ____________
	ID: 1173157 ·

Message boards : Science (non-SETI) : Speed of light broken again as scientists test neutrino result