Color of law?


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Profile hiamps
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Message 1161504 - Posted: 12 Oct 2011, 14:39:27 UTC

Just curious since we seem to have a lot of smart people here...
Recently an incident happened on my property when my step daughter and her ex while exchanging kids. It got a bit ugly and the cops had to come. During the incidence my step son grabbed the keys of his ex (my Store Manager)and supposedly threatened the other father with a baseball bat. He put the truck back and after both men were arrested and things were winding down a police officer came to my store where Managers truck was parked and said he was impounding the vehicle. I got my Manager and we tried to explain to the cop that it was not his truck to take and that he could search the truck with her permission. He didn't want to hear anything and threatened us with Obstruction. Then his buddy called me aside and Made me stand there and listen to his lecture. Since the Police were being LETTER of the law I decided I would hold them to their own standards. Didn't know where of how to complain so I called the Police Cheif, but got his assistant. While I was telling him what happened he threatened me with SLANDER which promptly had me backing out of that call. The poplice officer who detained me for the lecture has since told the girls at my coffee stand about the incidence which blows my mind. I had complained about that and told the assintant cheif her name, ne never asked her but this morning a couple windows were broken out of her truck...I am pretty sure it is a coincidence but am writing it here in case more things happen to her. I feel screwed, and will now go to the City Council meeting trying to push for a fair way to report Police Abuse...
Am I wrong for the way I feel. BTW...My manager and I had nothing to do with the incident or the Police until they came to my store to take her truck. The only relationship between the batboy and her are 2 kids.
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Message 1161514 - Posted: 12 Oct 2011, 15:05:36 UTC

You are not wrong in the way you feel, as long as you kept your cool while dealing with the officers. A few dollars for a lawyer might be a good idea at this point if you want to go farther with the issue but bullies depend on the fact that most people don't want to get involved. Bad officers are often in place for a long time because nobody stands up to them and the management looks the other way. In the end you have to decide if you want to spend the time and money to correct the problem.
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Message 1161533 - Posted: 12 Oct 2011, 16:14:33 UTC
Last modified: 12 Oct 2011, 16:15:05 UTC

It would also be a good idea to keep a strict, and accurate, record of any contacts by tape recording and, if possible, videoing the disuccion and incidents.

Nobody can argue with film, and the police will not be within their rights to stop you recording as long as they know you are.
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Message 1161536 - Posted: 12 Oct 2011, 16:20:24 UTC - in response to Message 1161533.

It would also be a good idea to keep a strict, and accurate, record of any contacts by tape recording and, if possible, videoing the disuccion and incidents.

Nobody can argue with film, and the police will not be within their rights to stop you recording as long as they know you are.


That all depends on the laws. Over here, one cannot record or attach any recording devices to a telephone( the way companies get around this is to inform all callers that calls may be monitored/recorded for training purposes). However, what can be done & legally accepted in a court of law is a telephone recording obtained by other means... i.e., by internal CCTV (best to have phone on speakerphone) & as long as the property is clearly marked as having CCTV, there is no need to inform the visitors.
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Message 1161547 - Posted: 12 Oct 2011, 17:01:19 UTC

A call to the local ACLU is in order. So is a call to the local field office of the FBI.

As to the truck, it was present at a crime, they can haul it off as evidence, take it apart as they please causing any damage they please and not put it back together. Because it is 3rd party owned they can't sell it at auction to fund their department. Street cops never seem to understand this, but the lawyers who have to file in court get it. Don't forget many small departments depend on asset forfeiture to make their budget. Cops are lectured to seize everything.

If you wanted to complain, you should have asked for internal affairs.

FYI: Any complaint should simply be a statement of facts not your perception of the law. Leave the law to lawyers.

As to the accusation of slander, if that was made to dissuade you from filing an official complaint, that would be a violation of Federal Law.

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Message 1161551 - Posted: 12 Oct 2011, 17:08:43 UTC

@John & Sirius B
In the USA you can't record voice unless the persons you are recording know it is happening and agree to it, or they have no expectation of privacy. Cops here are arguing that they have an expectation of privacy in public where an ordinary joe wouldn't because they are supposed to be in control of crime scenes. Many departments who get it are insisting on dashcams and mikes on the cop and turning them off is a firing offense.
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Message 1161641 - Posted: 12 Oct 2011, 21:29:23 UTC

That means the police are recording the incident. So, can Joe public involved in it request a copy of the video and sound recording, or is down to your lawyer?
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Message 1161646 - Posted: 12 Oct 2011, 21:48:52 UTC - in response to Message 1161551.

@John & Sirius B
In the USA you can't record voice unless the persons you are recording know it is happening and agree to it, or they have no expectation of privacy. Cops here are arguing that they have an expectation of privacy in public where an ordinary joe wouldn't because they are supposed to be in control of crime scenes. Many departments who get it are insisting on dashcams and mikes on the cop and turning them off is a firing offense.

That is a generalization and each state has it's own laws about recording of private conversations. Federal law only applies of a call is made across state lines.
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Profile Gary Charpentier
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Message 1161718 - Posted: 13 Oct 2011, 1:33:24 UTC - in response to Message 1161646.

@John & Sirius B
In the USA you can't record voice unless the persons you are recording know it is happening and agree to it, or they have no expectation of privacy. Cops here are arguing that they have an expectation of privacy in public where an ordinary joe wouldn't because they are supposed to be in control of crime scenes. Many departments who get it are insisting on dashcams and mikes on the cop and turning them off is a firing offense.

That is a generalization and each state has it's own laws about recording of private conversations. Federal law only applies of a call is made across state lines.

I wasn't only talking about phone calls. You can't use a laser bouncing off glass to record a conversation inside a building nor can a surveillance camera record sound. There are laws on eavesdropping. True, they aren't the same in every state.

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Message 1161719 - Posted: 13 Oct 2011, 1:35:10 UTC - in response to Message 1161641.

That means the police are recording the incident. So, can Joe public involved in it request a copy of the video and sound recording, or is down to your lawyer?

First there has to be a case in front of a judge. Then you may have to convince the judge it is relevant.

Or have your friendly reporter file a freedom of information request ...

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Message 1161764 - Posted: 13 Oct 2011, 3:56:39 UTC - in response to Message 1161504.

...
Am I wrong for the way I feel. BTW...My manager and I had nothing to do with the incident or the Police until they came to my store to take her truck. The only relationship between the batboy and her are 2 kids.


You may be family but you are not a party to the matter. It is between the people who were involved and the police. If there was a baseball bat involved the police could have prevented murder. Don't get in the way of people trying to do their job.

They did not invent "impound the truck" just to piss someone off. They did it because that is what they always do in these situations. Like other people they do not do unnecessary work.

Were I to guess the charge should be assault with a deadly weapon. It is certainly reasonable for the police to verify the bat really existed, that it was a real bat and do anything else necessary to get ahead of a good defense lawyer.

"Where is the truck?" is a reasonable question which a reasonable person would answer. I do not think that rises to obstruction but the police can arrest and hold you for arraignment and you can hire an attorney. It will likely be dismissed with you out of pocket at least $1000 or it may stick and it could cost you another $1000 to pay for $10,000 bail.

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Message 1161781 - Posted: 13 Oct 2011, 4:23:34 UTC - in response to Message 1161504.

...I had complained about that and told the assintant cheif her name, ne never asked her but this morning a couple windows were broken out of her truck...I am pretty sure it is a coincidence but am writing it here in case more things happen to her. I feel screwed, and will now go to the City Council meeting trying to push for a fair way to report Police Abuse...


That is documented by filing an insurance claim and a police report. Writing it here ain't worth jack.

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Message 1161849 - Posted: 13 Oct 2011, 12:24:35 UTC - in response to Message 1161781.

I don't understand the impound. The vehicle was on private property and not used in a crime. Qhy didn't they impound all the vehicles in the lot. I'd think its time to hire a lawyer to straighten out the police.

Like you said they are free to search the vehicle with permission of the owner or if they file charges and have a search warrant. You'll want a very good explanation from them none the less
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Message 1161866 - Posted: 13 Oct 2011, 14:02:52 UTC - in response to Message 1161849.

I don't understand the impound. The vehicle was on private property and not used in a crime. Qhy didn't they impound all the vehicles in the lot. I'd think its time to hire a lawyer to straighten out the police.

Like you said they are free to search the vehicle with permission of the owner or if they file charges and have a search warrant. You'll want a very good explanation from them none the less

OP Said truck was removed from the crime scene. Police can choose where they want to do the search, which could be the impound lot. And as I understand it the truck brought one of the persons to the crime scene which means it was used in the crime.



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Message 1162008 - Posted: 13 Oct 2011, 22:48:01 UTC - in response to Message 1161849.

I don't understand the impound. The vehicle was on private property and not used in a crime. Qhy didn't they impound all the vehicles in the lot. I'd think its time to hire a lawyer to straighten out the police.

Like you said they are free to search the vehicle with permission of the owner or if they file charges and have a search warrant. You'll want a very good explanation from them none the less


The bat was in the truck. It was used by the perp. The bat is evidence. The truck is part of the chain of custody of the evidence.


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