Occupy Wall Street

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Profile Hev
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Message 1171963 - Posted: 18 Nov 2011, 18:23:55 UTC

This 84 year old woman being interviewed also represents the Occupy movement. She was pepper sprayed by the Seattle police and is one of those "punk kids" out on the street.

I remember Goebbels
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Message 1171964 - Posted: 18 Nov 2011, 18:27:27 UTC - in response to Message 1171852.  

True enough, especially if these are two strikes folks, long term unemployed (there are a LOT of them now), plus unwilling to work minimum wage in order to maximize corporate profit.

I do find it interesting the number of folks in flat out dismissive mode regarding the issues OWS has tried to bring to the table. It is a level of denial that suggests thinking similar to the 18th century royalty of France.




You think it's going to help them get a job if they sit in a park for 2 months holding signs, shooting up, murdering, raping, and generally being pricks? Probably not.

Terry

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Message 1171965 - Posted: 18 Nov 2011, 18:29:24 UTC - in response to Message 1171918.  

True if they would be trying to get employed by one of the large wealthy, offshore employing corporations. That's probably a, shall we say, foreclosed choice for most of OWS folks.

I suspect you know that, but might be having a Dullish moment. <smile>



HR: Why do you have an arrest and conviction?

OWS: Because I was protesting against you ...

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Message 1172132 - Posted: 19 Nov 2011, 7:38:46 UTC - in response to Message 1171964.  

True enough, especially if these are two strikes folks, long term unemployed (there are a LOT of them now), plus unwilling to work minimum wage in order to maximize corporate profit.

I do find it interesting the number of folks in flat out dismissive mode regarding the issues OWS has tried to bring to the table. It is a level of denial that suggests thinking similar to the 18th century royalty of France.



I certainly see the same attitude that you see...and can't help thinking how badly it ended for them.

I wonder if the American public will show as little tolerance for it as the citizen's of France did.
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Message 1172182 - Posted: 19 Nov 2011, 14:27:28 UTC - in response to Message 1171964.  

I have no issue saying that some of the reasoning OWS has to protest is legitimate. I've said that since it started. It's the way they have went about it that is actually not correct. You don't set up tent cities in public places. If the government had them do that it would be called a Concentration Camp. The health issues, crime rate, things such as that have hurt their own cause. I'll never believe that the rich should pay the poor's way. Doing so would finish this country off. Of course then I suppose Mr. President would be happy....

Wall St. is full of corruption, it always has been, I'll not say any differently. It is a real reason to go out and protest. However... So is the government in general. If they wanted to effect real change they would have been protesting in the beginning in Washington, DC. I honestly believe Wall St should be closely monitored, however that being said, the amount of regulation actually kills SMALL businesses. Those businesses are the backbone of the entire country. The majority of all jobs in the US are at small businesses. All the regulation has people not willing to start one anymore, and those that have one would rather shut it down than keep losing money.

There is a better, safer way to protest than how they have went at this. It hasn't been organized enough. I've never seen a protest in all my life that actually need to police it's own people to this extent. However it isn't the worst.. Someone should have driven a CAR through the Westboro Baptist Church protests at some point. I've seen some call OWS the most hateful bunch of protesters in US history.

Now I'm not supporting how they've went about doing the OWS protests, they've clouded their own purpose by how they've done it. However Westboro are the biggest bunch of idiots we've ever had protest, besides maybe KKK/racist protests in general (yes this includes the Black Panthers, two groups of idiots don't make a right..).

In closing, whether I believe it to be right or wrong (in it's entirety..), OWS has a legitimate reason to protest, but not all of their reasons (or what they want) are correct. Some of them are Anarchists, lazy as hell, drug users, or just don't know why they are there. They are however correct about Wall St. being crooked. This won't change the minds of any die-hard supporters of it, and it wasn't meant to. Thanks for your time. :D

Terry
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Message 1173337 - Posted: 23 Nov 2011, 21:54:59 UTC

Love The Octopus Movements New Motto: We are NOT anti-capitalist, just anti-crapitalist

CRAPitalist. You Gots To Love It. Still, when one is in Their Camp, what The Heck is That Smell?

Occupy targets retailers on Black Friday

crapDullist

May we All have a METAMORPHOSIS. REASON. GOoD JUDGEMENT and LOVE and ORDER!!!!!
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Message 1173340 - Posted: 23 Nov 2011, 22:01:40 UTC - in response to Message 1173337.  

Heck Dull, an epithet tosser such as yourself, I would expect you would love this sort of linguistic manipulation.


Love The Octopus Movements New Motto: We are NOT anti-capitalist, just anti-crapitalist


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Message 1175921 - Posted: 5 Dec 2011, 19:46:14 UTC

If you can't beat them, join them!

http://gma.yahoo.com/blogs/abc-blogs/occupier-gets-wall-street-job-165758406.html
Tracy Postert no longer has to answer to cries of “Get a job!” from people who passed by the Occupy Wall Street protest.

I used to say, “I’m trying!” she told ABCNews.com. Postert doesn’t have to try any longer.

The New York City woman, who split her time between Occupy Wall Street and having her “nose in the computer looking for work,” now has a job, thanks to a little marketing savvy and an executive who happened to pass by at just the right time.

Armed with 800 copies of her resume, Postert held a sign that read: “Ph.D. Biomedical Scientist Seeking Full Time Employment.”

Although Postert was looking for work in academia, she had all but given up.

Her sign caught the eye of Wayne Kaufman, the chief market analyst for John Thomas Financial Brokerage — a firm with a prime Wall Street address.

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Message 1175993 - Posted: 6 Dec 2011, 2:35:24 UTC - in response to Message 1175921.  

Indeed, all Wall Street has to do is hire 8 Million more at Wall Street wages -- it's a start.

If you can't beat them, join them!

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Message 1177574 - Posted: 12 Dec 2011, 20:09:05 UTC

Occupy The Ports.

Who are The Dock Racketeers now?

Dull

May we All have a METAMORPHOSIS. REASON. GOoD JUDGEMENT and LOVE and ORDER!!!!!
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Message 1177585 - Posted: 12 Dec 2011, 21:09:26 UTC - in response to Message 1177574.  

Dull, you should have figured this out by now, they are a bunch of really angry people.
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Message 1182633 - Posted: 3 Jan 2012, 19:53:27 UTC

What living on $7 an hour actually means.
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Message 1182825 - Posted: 4 Jan 2012, 21:18:28 UTC
Last modified: 4 Jan 2012, 21:25:45 UTC

USA gasoline price per litre is about 54p in UK money, we pay £1.34 here.
Of this £1.34, £1.07 is paid in tax to the government. Lets all go electric
vehicle in the UK and hence pay no fuel tax. No, in time the government
would have to recap this lost tax so a vehicle tax disc would have to rise
to about a £1300 per car.
The Kite Fliers

--------------------
Kite fliers: An imaginary club of solo members, those who don't yet
belong to a formal team so "fly their own kites" - as the saying goes.
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Message 1182875 - Posted: 4 Jan 2012, 23:42:51 UTC - in response to Message 1182825.  

Actually, I've read that UK government revenues have taken a hit due to lower fuei consumption, lower cigarette consumption and at least marginally lower alcohol consumption.

Perhaps the UK will lead the way (although the US might be first) in taxing age. Anyone over 70 pays a tax increasing every year simply for being old. A great budget balancer that.

Lets all go electric vehicle in the UK and hence pay no fuel tax.

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Message 1182942 - Posted: 5 Jan 2012, 8:27:10 UTC - in response to Message 1182740.  

$7 is equal to £4.47 at todays' exchange rate. The UK minimum wage for an adult is £6.08 equal to $9.51. It is not a fair comparison because I don't know how the USA cost of living index compares to ours. However on the face of it, it would appear that the USA is worse off in this respect.

I have no problem with the OWS movement in principle, I think it is indeed high time that the 1% corporate greed boys got, a taste of real life. I Just can't agree with them using soft targets like St. Pauls as the Occupy London group are doing, to get their message across. A decision on their future is being heard on 11th January.

There are different levels of NMW, depending on your age and whether you are an apprentice. The current rates (from 1 October 2011) are:

£6.08 - the main rate for workers aged 21 and over
£4.98 - the 18-20 rate
£3.68 - the 16-17 rate for workers above school leaving age but under 18
£2.60 - the apprentice rate, for apprentices under 19 or 19 or over and in the first year of their apprenticeship


Hi Chris S,

Well, to answer your statement about cost of living in the USA, there really isn't a single cost... It varies a LOT depending on where you live.

That said, we can get an average picture of things by refering to the Federal Poverty Level. For a family of 4 (husband, wife, and 2 kids) in 2011, the poverty level was a gross income of $22,350.00. Factoring in the Federal Minimum Wage of $7.25 / hour, that comes out to a few minutes less than 60 hours of work per week. Since it is pretty much a given these days here in the USA that both parents will work, either both working at least 30 hours per week at minimum wage or one working 40 hours and one working 20 hours will put them over the poverty line. And most all of the jobs I know of right now that are hiring pay more than minimum wage. About the only people I know that work jobs that get paid ONLY minimum wage are a few of the illegals (we have lots of them in this area from Mexico and places further south). And even then, MOST of them get over minimum wage.

That said, the Federal Poverty level is an average of all the 'lower 48 states and Washington D.C.'. As I said, the cost of living varies greatly here in the USA depending on just exactly where you are. For instance, in rural areas in Texas, a family of 4 can make it on 60 hours of minimum wage a week *IF* they are frugal and careful. In other parts of the USA, namely New York City and a good part of urban California, that family of 4 has no prayer of making it on that level of income. Just rent on a very small, modest apartment in a run down area of town is a lot more than $22,000... So, it all depends on where you are in the USA if it is doable.

As to the '1%'... MOST of the 1% are not 'corporate greed boys' (I take that phrase to mean people like management level stock brokers and investment bankers). Its not that hard to get into the '1%' if both husband and wife are professionals (doctors, lawyers, etc.). A lot of owners of small businesses are 1%'ers. Even a lot of professional athletes. I am not sure of the current salary structure, but pre-strike the NBA (national basketball association) players were automatically 1%'ers. The absolute minimum salary an NBA player could make under the old structure was somewhere around $100,000.00 / year more than needed to qualify for the 1%.

There are about 160,000,000 households in the USA (over 300,000,000 people total). The top 1% comes out to about 1,600,000 households. And there are only 5,000 to 10,000 'corporate greed boys' in the USA. Lets call it 10,000. OWS are not complaining about the actions of the top 1%, but instead the actions of only the top 0.00625%. But they paint the picture that the entire 1% (heck, the entire top 50% that pays the taxes) is responsible.

Its not even the 'corporate greed boys' that are responsible. OWS is protesting in the wrong place. They need to go Occupy the steps of the US Capital building and protest Congress. It is the fault of Congress (that passes the laws), the Executive branch (that signs them into law and implements regulations), and the Judicial branch (that lets the first two get away with it).

All the 'corporate greed boys' want to do is to make a profit, the same as ANY other businessman. But the tighter that Congress and the Executive Branch turn the legal and regulatory screws, the more 'creative' that the 'corporate greed boys' have to get to have a chance at a decent profit. Too creative and the slightest misstep causes the whole house of cards to crash down.

So, again, OWS should be OUSCBS (occupy the US Capital Building Steps) because it is the US Congress that is the cause. Protesting outside banks and brokers on Wall Street is gonna accomplish dickey-bird. But, I have seen the power of protest in Washington D.C. When I was much younger, images of thousands of people standing outside the White House fence screaming 'Hey Hey LBJ!... How many kids did you kill today?' were all over the Walter Cronkite newscasts. After a period of time, public opinion turned rather sour on the Vietnam War, and it cost LBJ his 2nd term (cue Nixon again... state right).

A few thousand unwashed hippies chanting outside the White House not only led to us getting out of the Vietnam war but also inflicted Tricky Dick on us again... Nope... OWS ain't doing it right...
https://youtu.be/iY57ErBkFFE

#Texit

Don't blame me, I voted for Johnson(L) in 2016.

Truth is dangerous... especially when it challenges those in power.
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Message 1183006 - Posted: 5 Jan 2012, 18:43:19 UTC - in response to Message 1182954.  

It isn't that Obama is acting more and more like a dictator (that sounds so much like Faux news drivel to me), but rather, in the absence of a legislative inclination to governance, he is doing what he can within the existing framework to get some things done. Since the Senate requires 60 votes to do squat, and since the inclination to do nothing is so great, recess appointments are one of the limited available options (note even, dare I say it, *Republican* presidents have done this in the past).




And with our president acting more and more like the dictator we all want, his new head of the NLRB will be able to promote raising the minimum wage again and raising the minimum wage faster.


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Message 1183017 - Posted: 5 Jan 2012, 19:24:08 UTC - in response to Message 1182954.  
Last modified: 5 Jan 2012, 19:33:04 UTC

Which leads me to a thought provoking question to present to the thinkers in these forums. What does raising the minimum wage do in the short-term and what does raising the minimum wage do in the long-term? eh? Now don't say I haven't covered this. I have in previous posts.


Australia's minimum wage is $15.51 per hour or $589.30 per week adjusted annually by The Fair Work Commission taking into account inflation and productivity. As in the US the standard of living of those on the minimum wage varies by location.

Some prices in Oz are higher than the US, some are lower. In general, businesses big and small make a profit, although retailing is not very profitable at this time as discretionary spending by the population is at a low point due to the world's economic instability. Inflation is stable at around 2.5%. Our tax rates are roughly equivalent to those in the US.

IMO increasing the US minimum wage would, in the short term, cause a spike in inflation as employers covered the increased wage costs but in the long term it would level out because the bottom 50% would have more disposable income therefore would buy more goods and services. This increased spending would cover the cost to employers so after a period of time the relationship between prices and wages would stabilise with the working poor better off and businesses having an increased turnover. On top of that those on the minimum wage would be able to pay income tax thus easing the burden on the the rest (one of the favourite hobby horses around here).

Despite the claims to the contrary by our conservative party, who for some strange reason are called the "Liberal" party the Australian economy is doing very nicely thankyou. This is in spite of having all those things that caused such a rucus in the US such as universal health care and a decent welfare system.

Please Sir, may I go now?

T.A.

EDIT: Quote added for clarity
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Message 1183029 - Posted: 5 Jan 2012, 20:16:11 UTC - in response to Message 1183006.  

It isn't that Obama is acting more and more like a dictator (that sounds so much like Faux news drivel to me), but rather, in the absence of a legislative inclination to governance, he is doing what he can within the existing framework to get some things done. Since the Senate requires 60 votes to do squat, and since the inclination to do nothing is so great, recess appointments are one of the limited available options (note even, dare I say it, *Republican* presidents have done this in the past).

Yes, but what Obama did hasn't been done since FDR and his court packing days.

Past presidents, except FDR, had the sense to realize that a recess wasn't a 10 minute bathroom break. If you remember your constitution, there is a nice clause in there requiring either the house or the senate if it wants to recess for more than three days to get permission of the other body. Obama chose to ignore that. Since he can't convince the people who put 40 Senators in office that he is doing the right thing, perhaps that is what he should work on. After all if that many think what he is doing shouldn't be done that is an issue. Occupy says it should be everyone.

"Democracy, is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch.
Freedom, is a well armed lamb contesting that vote."
~Benjamin Franklin 1759
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Message 1183030 - Posted: 5 Jan 2012, 20:22:05 UTC - in response to Message 1183029.  

you do understand that recess appointees are not in permanent positions.

Also the Republican senate is calling the senate to order and business by having 1 member there and recessing after 30 seconds. The Dems did it to the Republicans during the Bush years and nobody said dittly squat about the Single member sessions being held. I'd say it's probably worthy of a federal case and let the Supreme court decide if having 1 member of the Senate present is constitutionally a quorum to do Senate business with. I bet it wouldn't pass muster.


In a rich man's house there is no place to spit but his face.
Diogenes Of Sinope
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