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Terror Australis
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Message 1183697 - Posted: 8 Jan 2012, 7:01:18 UTC - in response to Message 1183685.

Inflation can't explain how a $1.00 can of Pringles now cost closer to $2.00 in just over 3 years. At 3% we don't see that and even with the increase in Diesel prices we still wouldn't get that increase. This is a conscious choice to bilk the general populous and not blame it on their own greed. Minimum wages, inflation(its been flat ask your senior citizens about their recent cost of living raises in Social Security)or fuel. They(business) has taken advantage of the general populous and its eagerness purchase and decided to charge more because they can.

But I thought the "Free Market" was supposed to prevent such bilking [/sarcasm]

T.A.

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Message 1183771 - Posted: 8 Jan 2012, 13:32:05 UTC - in response to Message 1183697.
Last modified: 21 Mar 2014, 1:56:13 UTC

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Profile Gary Charpentier
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Message 1183810 - Posted: 8 Jan 2012, 17:16:36 UTC - in response to Message 1183697.

Inflation can't explain how a $1.00 can of Pringles now cost closer to $2.00 in just over 3 years. At 3% we don't see that and even with the increase in Diesel prices we still wouldn't get that increase. This is a conscious choice to bilk the general populous and not blame it on their own greed. Minimum wages, inflation(its been flat ask your senior citizens about their recent cost of living raises in Social Security)or fuel. They(business) has taken advantage of the general populous and its eagerness purchase and decided to charge more because they can.

But I thought the "Free Market" was supposed to prevent such bilking [/sarcasm]

T.A.

Bilking? No. They just dumped their addictive substance on the market below the price point for a while. Now that they have the poor sots hooked they are just moving to a maximum profits price point. Think sin taxes and no matter how much they go up the government gets more revenue.

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Message 1183841 - Posted: 8 Jan 2012, 19:06:44 UTC

I believe part of the OWS movement reflects the concern that rather than move from a free market to a socialist state (the complaint of the libertarians and a sector of the Tea Party partisans) and rather than moving from a poorly government regulated state to a free market state (the complaint of the left), we are in fact moving from a surprisingly limited (and poorly at that) government regulated state to a corporate state at which point neither the government (theoretically of the people/by the people) nor individual consumers (free market) have much control -- it is all under the control of corporations -- and in particular, the select few who run the corporations -- world wide.

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Message 1183845 - Posted: 8 Jan 2012, 19:25:44 UTC
Last modified: 8 Jan 2012, 19:26:03 UTC

The worm is slowly turning ....

Bankers face jail

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Message 1184737 - Posted: 12 Jan 2012, 11:36:10 UTC

The Hitler/Stalin counter-strike against the OWS did not occur. This would have made martyrs of them and put them in our history books. Our police are far smarter than that. The OWS should have created a grass roots political movement to get people elected to office who support their ideals. I am embarrased that they did not. It is clear that criminals have gotten away with the highest crimes you can imagine. We need to remember the suffering caused to poor and working Americans is an open wound that continues to fester. George Bush the Elder saw to it that the criminals of the Savings & Loan scam went to prison and the economy was salvaged by higher taxes to pay for it even though it meant political suicide. I now respect the man.
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Message 1186104 - Posted: 18 Jan 2012, 6:17:23 UTC

Did they Occupy The Capital yesterday? I didn't notice. ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

If The 99% don't like The 1%, then Revolt.

Although, In Tunisia, Egypt, Libya, etc., The Rich are Still Rich and Still living La Vida Loca.

So Revolt USAers. REVOLT HARD. REVOLT LONG.

See what It Gets Ya.

LOL all The Way To The Bank. Close all The Banks Down. The $$$ is Still There. Floating in ElectronWorld.

Revolting(As in BLECH)Dullnando
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Message 1186161 - Posted: 18 Jan 2012, 15:06:57 UTC

The natives are restless ....

strikes

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Message 1186801 - Posted: 20 Jan 2012, 14:47:54 UTC - in response to Message 1183690.

Inflation can't explain how a $1.00 can of Pringles now cost closer to $2.00 in just over 3 years. At 3% we don't see that and even with the increase in Diesel prices we still wouldn't get that increase. This is a conscious choice to bilk the general populous and not blame it on their own greed. Minimum wages, inflation(its been flat ask your senior citizens about their recent cost of living raises in Social Security)or fuel. They(business) has taken advantage of the general populous and its eagerness purchase and decided to charge more because they can.


Skilldude,

There is a simple reason why your can of Pringles doubled in price in 3 years. 1 word: Ethanol.

As ethanol from corn production is ramped up, the price of corn goes up due to increased demand (about a 300% price increase over the last 10 years -- by comparison, the all goods CPI has gone up only about 27.5% over the same period). This increased price on corn causes farmers to re-purpose land from producing other agricultural goods (such as potatoes) to corn to 'cash in', so to speak. This causes relative shortages in the other goods, causing upward pressure on their prices.

Short version: BAD Government policy causes higher food prices.

Now then, undoubtedly there is some measure of price hikes on Pringles not due to this. Pringles, after all, is a major brand name of Proctor and Gamble. Lots of brand recognition and loyalty. Without a doubt, P&G raised some prices on their more successful stuff to help fund their... lesser successful product lines (what is a nice way to say sucky, unpopular stuff?).

But you can't put it down to 100% 'corporate greed'. Business doesn't work that way.





I'm not entirely sure how corn ethanol gets into "Potato" chips or Diesel fuel. Diesel can use Ethanol because it burns to easily. It would cause massive preignition.
Business doesn't run that way. Big Business certainly does. They are to big to fail. They own every facet of common foods we purchase in stores. We don't have much alternative so they are guaranteed to succeed. Basically, when 2-5 companies own all the major food processing plants in a country you can see how collusion and greed can easily manipulate prices.
Prime example... Orange Juice. Oh NOOOO the Orange crop was ruined. News from corporate headquarters state there'll be shortages. What we don't hear is that, in lieu of dumping excess crops from years past, corporations stockpiled the OJ for times that are lean. Now that times are lean they still have ample supplies and can talk about shortages all the while raising prices. Prices that will stay higher by 10% or more after the so called shortage has ended.

This really isn't that difficult to follow if you pay attention more than week to week as you head to the grocers.
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Message 1186897 - Posted: 20 Jan 2012, 22:22:09 UTC - in response to Message 1186801.

I'm not entirely sure how corn ethanol gets into "Potato" chips or Diesel fuel. Diesel can use Ethanol because it burns to easily. It would cause massive preignition.
Business doesn't run that way. Big Business certainly does. They are to big to fail. They own every facet of common foods we purchase in stores. We don't have much alternative so they are guaranteed to succeed. Basically, when 2-5 companies own all the major food processing plants in a country you can see how collusion and greed can easily manipulate prices.


you and I do not own or work at a place involved in the production of potato chips. nonetheless, rather than react as you did, I did this:

http://search.yahoo.com/search;_ylt=AiK_BmXMmNfzpWlUi4LHKi.bvZx4?p=ethanol+in+%22potato+chips%22&toggle=1&cop=mss&ei=UTF-8&fr=yfp-t-374

Lo and behold, more than one website mentioning there's ethanol in potato chips.
Veracity? I don't know.
But potato chips are obviously not just potatoes. Some are flavored to tatse like they have onion dip on them (when they do not), or barbeque sauce, and so o.

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Message 1186898 - Posted: 20 Jan 2012, 22:22:29 UTC

If corporations are people, at what point does people life begin for the corporation?

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Message 1186899 - Posted: 20 Jan 2012, 22:23:14 UTC

If corporations are people, were the bailouts pro-life?
Or, is it more like "end of life decisions. Probably doctors' violations of DNR orders"?

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Message 1186926 - Posted: 20 Jan 2012, 23:14:37 UTC - in response to Message 1186897.
Last modified: 20 Jan 2012, 23:23:55 UTC

I'm not entirely sure how corn ethanol gets into "Potato" chips or Diesel fuel. Diesel can use Ethanol because it burns to easily. It would cause massive preignition.
Business doesn't run that way. Big Business certainly does. They are to big to fail. They own every facet of common foods we purchase in stores. We don't have much alternative so they are guaranteed to succeed. Basically, when 2-5 companies own all the major food processing plants in a country you can see how collusion and greed can easily manipulate prices.


you and I do not own or work at a place involved in the production of potato chips. nonetheless, rather than react as you did, I did this:

http://search.yahoo.com/search;_ylt=AiK_BmXMmNfzpWlUi4LHKi.bvZx4?p=ethanol+in+%22potato+chips%22&toggle=1&cop=mss&ei=UTF-8&fr=yfp-t-374

Lo and behold, more than one website mentioning there's ethanol in potato chips.
Veracity? I don't know.
But potato chips are obviously not just potatoes. Some are flavored to tatse like they have onion dip on them (when they do not), or barbeque sauce, and so o.


Sarge,
Well, there likely is ethanol used in potato chip production, especially in the flavoring agents. Ever hear of things like vanilla extract? A lot of various flavors are a lot more soluble in ethanol than in water, so water/ethanol mix is used to extract these flavors for use in flavoring other foods...

But this is NOT what I meant, Skildude.

One more time...

The government decided to give ethanol production from corn a rather significant subsidy (for political reasons) in order to promote its use as an 'alternative' fuel. <-- The BAD policy, corn is not ideal for ethanol production, but the corn belt does have a lot of political pull.

1st wave effect:

To get in on the ethanol-from-corn gravy train, corn farmers sell increasing amounts of the corn crop to the ethanol producers. The corn supply available for other sectors of the economy drops causing a reduction in supply, relative to demand, in those other sectors with its consequent price increases. Anything other than ethanol that is produced from corn (such as beef cattle or corn meal) has rather significant increases in upwards pressure on prices.



2nd wave effect:

To further get in on the ethanol-from-corn gravy train, farmers increase the the amount of land they use for growing corn. There is a finite amount of land suitable for growing crops (including corn), so farmers must usually shift land from some other crop to corn to do this. This causes a drop in supply of the other crops (with the resulting upwards pressure on prices for those crops (and anything else that uses those other crops in their production)). Yes, the increased supply of corn *does* relieve some of the price increases on corn from the 1st wave, but the damage (in the form of higher food prices) from the 2nd wave is much more widespread.

3rd wave:
.
.
.

nth wave:



Once all the dust settles, so to speak, the end result is that the price of dang near everything sold at the grocery store (and a lot of other goods too) goes up, sometimes by a little, sometimes by a lot, depends on the good.

But, yeah... the result of a BAD government policy (ethanol from corn subsidy) is that your can of potato chips has a price increase. Its the market that works this way. It doesn't matter if you have 2 firms, or thousands.

And, as you have noted in other posts, it tends to not go away entirely once what caused it is fixed. This tends to be more pronounced when the number of firms is small... Perhaps this part is what you meant when you mentioned 2-5 firms.

If you will note, in my post you were responding to Skildude, I mentioned P&G probably was being a tad... greedy on its Pringles line...

However, this was not the only, nor even the initial reason behind the price increase you noted.

And yes, I DO pay attention to the prices at the grocery store on an ongoing basis, as well as the news. This is what clued me into the 'ethanol effect' on food prices to start with.

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Message 1186967 - Posted: 21 Jan 2012, 0:56:33 UTC - in response to Message 1186926.
Last modified: 21 Jan 2012, 1:00:34 UTC

Major, a good economic analysis. In a 200 level econ class you would get a good grade for your explanation.
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Message 1186969 - Posted: 21 Jan 2012, 1:19:08 UTC - in response to Message 1186967.

Major, a good economic analysis. In a 200 level econ class you would get a good grade for your explanation.


Been there, done that... Same with higher than 2nd year classes too...

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Message 1186990 - Posted: 21 Jan 2012, 1:59:03 UTC - in response to Message 1186926.

Well, there likely is ethanol used in potato chip production, especially in the flavoring agents.

Major, well, without even looking, I suggested it would be found in the additional flavoring. It sounds you're just telling me I guessed correctly?

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Message 1187045 - Posted: 21 Jan 2012, 4:14:04 UTC - in response to Message 1186990.

Well, there likely is ethanol used in potato chip production, especially in the flavoring agents.

Major, well, without even looking, I suggested it would be found in the additional flavoring. It sounds you're just telling me I guessed correctly?
Well, yes. It hadn't even occurred to me in that previous post that there might have been ethanol used in the production of the chips. But, that is not what I was considering in my initial post about the $2.00 can of chips.

I was discussing the effects of the Government's policy of ethanol-from-corn subsidies on food prices (making them higher). An increase of the supply of ethanol might even have the opposite effect and lower the cost of making the chips by some very tiny fraction of 1 cent...

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Message 1187063 - Posted: 21 Jan 2012, 5:40:18 UTC - in response to Message 1186969.

Major, a good economic analysis. In a 200 level econ class you would get a good grade for your explanation.


Been there, done that... Same with higher than 2nd year classes too...

All I remember from my econ class is some claptrap about the government should not pay back the people it borrows money from and should spend it elsewhere. Pure rubbish, obviously theft, sounded like some rob Peter to pay Paul junk or some Robin Hood fantasy. Can you imagine, not paying back the owners of Treasury Bonds. Why that would be bankruptcy of the USA. (oh, that is another thread)
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Message 1187112 - Posted: 21 Jan 2012, 11:44:45 UTC - in response to Message 1187063.

Major, a good economic analysis. In a 200 level econ class you would get a good grade for your explanation.


Been there, done that... Same with higher than 2nd year classes too...

All I remember from my econ class is some claptrap about the government should not pay back the people it borrows money from and should spend it elsewhere. Pure rubbish, obviously theft, sounded like some rob Peter to pay Paul junk or some Robin Hood fantasy. Can you imagine, not paying back the owners of Treasury Bonds. Why that would be bankruptcy of the USA. (oh, that is another thread)


Sounds like your econ prof was a Keynesian....

Most of the econ profs I had were not...


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Message 1187119 - Posted: 21 Jan 2012, 12:32:01 UTC
Last modified: 21 Mar 2014, 2:14:30 UTC

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