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bobby Send message Joined: 22 Mar 02 Posts: 2866 Credit: 17,789,109 RAC: 3 |
99% is well ... Not sure about the last century, though the link to the WNYC broadcast I posted here does provide some details about what has happened over the last 30 or so years. It certainly seems that money has not trickled down over this period; over the same period the percentage at which the highest earners are taxed has decreased. Gary, I've seen you comment on fiduciary duty a few times, and am wondering what it is about this duty that is blameworthy? I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that ... |
Gary Charpentier Send message Joined: 25 Dec 00 Posts: 30593 Credit: 53,134,872 RAC: 32 |
Gary, I've seen you comment on fiduciary duty a few times, and am wondering what it is about this duty that is blameworthy? This wiki article is really short. There are a considerable number of people who seem to think corporations have some blame in what they see as some sort of fairness duty to a country or mankind. Public corporations are nothing but a fiduciary duty to the shareholders. The duty owed to the shareholder is above any duty the director/officer may owe his country or fellow man. Repeat this until it fully sinks in! So when the the choice comes up of having new jobs in the USA or cheapest labor market on the planet, the duty owed the shareholders is the over riding duty. The jobs must be shipped offshore. No matter how the directors/officers feel about the matter. If they don't they are breaking the duty which means they are breaking the law. There are some ways to change this if this is how you want fair to come down. One way is to change the tax code so those offshore cheap labor cesspools become more expensive than USA labor. That likely won't work as corporations will simply buy from independent companies in those cesspools and not hire via a subsidiary. Another way is the get the shareholders to change the bylaws to remove the things you don't believe are fair from the duty. As most every public corporation is owned by other public corporations that isn't going to fly due to a vicious circle. The last way is to change the law on the duty and place being a good citizen of the USA above the duty to make every penny possible. If that is done expect some companies to move offshore lock stock and barrel, but that is why we have trade tariffs. I'm not saying I agree or disagree with what many people think fair should be. I know if what I understand their concept of fair was to be attempted, it would be considered protectionist and likely get the USA in deep hot water with the WTO. Personally I think if your piece of paper wants access to American capital and the American Legal system then it may have to settle for being a bit of an American citizen, especially as SCOTUS says that piece of paper is a people. Now as to trickle up/down you really should look this up over the time span indicated, inflation adjusted. Then look at that wealth one, two and three generations down the line. Makes for something to ponder. |
John Neale Send message Joined: 16 Mar 00 Posts: 634 Credit: 7,246,513 RAC: 9 |
Gary, I've also seen your reference to fiduciary duty and the laws of the United States, but I've searched quite extensively and not been able to find any evidence to support your definition of fiduciary duty. Which law or laws in the US are you referring to? |
soft^spirit Send message Joined: 18 May 99 Posts: 6497 Credit: 34,134,168 RAC: 0 |
Gary, Fudiciary duty is not the problem. That is a fair and reasonable expectation. The problem is that corporate fat cats have decided to reward themselves by creating short term "profits" by destroying people, lives, the companies reputation in order to line their own pockets at the expense of shareholders. There is nothing to indicate that the financial well being of a company can ONLY be measured by this quarters statements. The name recognition, values shown, world consciousness, reputation, are all significant values to each corporation. When ever companies are dismantled for their basic values(and there are many games to CAUSE this) there is a loss of jobs, loss of esteem, and loss of compassion. This also reflects to the customers and often results in loss of sales and income as well. However, those at the top reward themselves richly if things go well, and richly "to retain talent" when things go badly. If someone is shuffled out, their low friends in high places make sure they have another place to go. The 1% take very good care of themselves at the expense of everyone else. To call this "Fudiciary Duty" is disingenuous at best. Janice |
Gary Charpentier Send message Joined: 25 Dec 00 Posts: 30593 Credit: 53,134,872 RAC: 32 |
Gary, Fudiciary duty is not the problem. That is a fair and reasonable expectation. Then everything is perfect with public corporations today. The problem is that corporate fat cats have decided to reward themselves by creating short term "profits" by destroying people, lives, the companies reputation in order to line their own pockets at the expense of shareholders. Do you not understand that every year the shareholders vote to give this compensation to the board? It can not be at the expense of the shareholders. It is was they they would be violating their fiduciary duty to the shareholders. There is nothing to indicate that the financial well being of a company can ONLY be measured by this quarters statements. The name recognition, values shown, world consciousness, reputation, are all significant values to each corporation. The share price is the value to the shareholder, if the company isn't making a growing profit that drops. As the SEC requires quarterly measures ... something tells me you don't understand the basic things that are involved in investing your money. The duty owed to the shareholder is above any duty the director/officer may owe his country or fellow man. Repeat this until it fully sinks in! Your statement about destroying people indicates you did not understand and it hasn't fully sunk in yet. |
Gary Charpentier Send message Joined: 25 Dec 00 Posts: 30593 Credit: 53,134,872 RAC: 32 |
Gary, You aren't going to find much in statutes, but a considerable amount in decisions a/k/a case law. You might find some looking up fraud. You may also have to look to each of the 50 states sets of laws as corporations in the USA are a matter of state law not Federal. Not every state puts it online or in a searchable form even if it is online. Legal research in the USA is a PITA. |
BarryAZ Send message Joined: 1 Apr 01 Posts: 2580 Credit: 16,982,517 RAC: 0 |
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BarryAZ Send message Joined: 1 Apr 01 Posts: 2580 Credit: 16,982,517 RAC: 0 |
But once the Teapublicans take over, that minor detail will be eliminated in the Disparate States. Particularly as it applies to health care professionals -- we simply have to kill off the old, the sick and the poor as soon as possible to make a better Amerika. There is a Duty of Care in both the USA and the UK. |
MOMMY: He is MAKING ME Read His Posts Thoughts and Prayers. GOoD Thoughts and GOoD Prayers. HATERWORLD Vs THOUGHTs and PRAYERs World. It Is a BATTLE ROYALE. Nobody LOVEs Me. Everybody HATEs Me. Why Don't I Go Eat Worms. Tasty Treats are Wormy Meat. Yes Send message Joined: 16 Jun 02 Posts: 6895 Credit: 6,588,977 RAC: 0 |
If I had my way, I'd hose them all down with 500 gallons of raw sewage. Yeah, too bad The Thames is cleaned up. Is there still an Occupy Movement? I haven't noticed lately. nerdy chinless wonders have managed what Hitler couldn't I wish a U.S. Politician would say that. Man, what a Field Day The Talking Heads would have. Dull |
Es99 Send message Joined: 23 Aug 05 Posts: 10874 Credit: 350,402 RAC: 0 |
Back to the thread title, we have a sad situation in London. There are 300 protesters camped out in the graveyard of St Pauls Cathedral, who are refusing to leave. We now have a safety issue, so the Cathedral has been shut losing £22,000 a day in revenue. At least that article mentions the views of the protesters: But the protesters claim they have tried to answer such concerns, reorganising their camp "in response to feedback from the fire brigade". The Daily Mail article on this is hilarious with no attempt at actual news reporting with the headline: Surrender of St Paul's: Protest rabble force the cathedral to close, a feat that Hitler could barely manage "Surrender", "Rabble", "Hitler" That's a fricken awesome use of emotive negative words in the context of these protests and shows absolutely no attempt and being unbiased. LMAO. People should analyse their news sources a little more, it's clear they have an agenda. They aren't exactly being subtle about it. So while we're on the subject of Hitler, Goebbels would be proud of the work of "News Papers" such as the Daily Mail. Reality Internet Personality |
BarryAZ Send message Joined: 1 Apr 01 Posts: 2580 Credit: 16,982,517 RAC: 0 |
Well, if you've glanced thru the varous threads out here, you know that Dull has an agenda. So use of charged words is normal speech for the lad. In fact, his primary goal here is to irritate -- he's quite good at it. Irritation for irritation's sake. That and claiming that he makes mega-bucks as a day trader -- he has a need to declare and demonstrate that as core competency.
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Es99 Send message Joined: 23 Aug 05 Posts: 10874 Credit: 350,402 RAC: 0 |
Well done ES, 7/10, not bad. Actually as I have said before, I am getting disappointed with the Mail, over the last year is is not a patch on the incisive paper it once was :-( Why is St. Paul's a "soft" target? You do know that the head of the Church and the Head of State are one and the same person? Reality Internet Personality |
MOMMY: He is MAKING ME Read His Posts Thoughts and Prayers. GOoD Thoughts and GOoD Prayers. HATERWORLD Vs THOUGHTs and PRAYERs World. It Is a BATTLE ROYALE. Nobody LOVEs Me. Everybody HATEs Me. Why Don't I Go Eat Worms. Tasty Treats are Wormy Meat. Yes Send message Joined: 16 Jun 02 Posts: 6895 Credit: 6,588,977 RAC: 0 |
you know that Dull has an agenda...goal here is to irritate... I wish to emulate My Favorite Canadian Author ...bucks as a day trader Many of The Occupiers, while Protesting, with "Down with The Greedy Corporations" being Chanted in the background, will Whip Out their iPhones, Blackberries, etc. and Pull The Trigger on stock trades. You know, to make a few quid/bucks/dinars/lire, etc. during these idle hours of World Change. MegaDull |
Iona Send message Joined: 12 Jul 07 Posts: 790 Credit: 22,438,118 RAC: 0 |
Yes, I'm afraid that you are probably correct in your comment about iPhones and Blacberries....these people often seem to have a strange set of standards. I'd call it hypocrisy. Having said that, I agree with much that Chris says, whilst also pointing out that the Church of England is a rather wealthy institution that 'owns' large tracts of land - as does the Catholic Church and other religious orders. Don't take life too seriously, as you'll never come out of it alive! |
Es99 Send message Joined: 23 Aug 05 Posts: 10874 Credit: 350,402 RAC: 0 |
you know that Dull has an agenda...goal here is to irritate... Nonsense..and I suspect you know it. Reality Internet Personality |
Gary Charpentier Send message Joined: 25 Dec 00 Posts: 30593 Credit: 53,134,872 RAC: 32 |
Yes, I'm afraid that you are probably correct in your comment about iPhones and Blacberries....these people often seem to have a strange set of standards. I'd call it hypocrisy. Having said that, I agree with much that Chris says, whilst also pointing out that the Church of England is a rather wealthy institution that 'owns' large tracts of land - as does the Catholic Church and other religious orders. They are just the same greedy bastards they protest against. The only difference is they don't have the brain power to figure out how to get money. To get money, find an idiot and hire him to do something some other idiot wants done and is willing to pay more for than the idiot you hired charges. If you are the idiot making it, your time is all used up. If you are the middle man, you have time free to do it again and again ergo you get rich. |
Tom95134 Send message Joined: 27 Nov 01 Posts: 216 Credit: 3,790,200 RAC: 0 |
But using a soft target like St. Pauls is out of order, and has to stop. I therfore stand by my comments about the slurry treatment. Shut down any bank you like including the Bank of England if you want, but leave the Cathedral alone. Unlike churches here (U.S.), in England the church is aligned with the government. I can't say I agree with targeting the Church of England but one has to look at what they are saying and how closely they align themselves with the position of the Crown. |
bobby Send message Joined: 22 Mar 02 Posts: 2866 Credit: 17,789,109 RAC: 3 |
The soft target that allowed itself to be used as one? (source http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/oct/16/occupy-london-protest-st-pauls?newsfeed=true). Why is this "out of order"? I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that ... |
bobby Send message Joined: 22 Mar 02 Posts: 2866 Credit: 17,789,109 RAC: 3 |
Yes, I'm afraid that you are probably correct in your comment about iPhones and Blacberries....these people often seem to have a strange set of standards. I'd call it hypocrisy. Having said that, I agree with much that Chris says, whilst also pointing out that the Church of England is a rather wealthy institution that 'owns' large tracts of land - as does the Catholic Church and other religious orders. To avoid the accusation of hypocrisy, the protesters should do what? Give up all their worldly possessions? I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that ... |
Es99 Send message Joined: 23 Aug 05 Posts: 10874 Credit: 350,402 RAC: 0 |
Yes, I'm afraid that you are probably correct in your comment about iPhones and Blacberries....these people often seem to have a strange set of standards. I'd call it hypocrisy. Having said that, I agree with much that Chris says, whilst also pointing out that the Church of England is a rather wealthy institution that 'owns' large tracts of land - as does the Catholic Church and other religious orders. So the people who work for a living are idiots. What a marvellous view of your fellow man you have. Reality Internet Personality |
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