If the Giza pyramids were built by Alien.


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OzzFan
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Message 1161617 - Posted: 12 Oct 2011, 20:08:34 UTC - in response to Message 1161593.

Since I am obviously part of the first category

Really? What gave you that idea? That was a general comment. Maybe the cap fits though? From my experience those who want to believe that no ET ever visited earth would be devastated to find out they did. It would undermine everything they believe.


I find myself saying the same thing about religious people finding out that there is no God; they will be quite devastated, and it would undermine everything they believe, whereas with an Atheist, if it is ever found out there is a God, not much really changes other than they would have to learn what this God wants out of us (beside verifying what exactly makes them "God").

But you are quite wrong in that we would be devastated at such a revelation. There's no logical reason to allow empirical evidence to support claims "devastate" your world-views. A rational person simply accepts the evidence and claims and incorporates them into their life... like accepting that the world isn't flat. I doubt too many people were devastated by that revelation.

You're indicating that you're a bunch of lunatics looking for "possibilities" without evidence or proof.

Oh c'mon now, you know better than that, you do yourself an injustice. We as "a bunch" as you colloquially term it, are prepared to take serious suggestions and look into it further. If upon examination there is no eveidence to support it, then it is discarded.

I am not compromised at all, only in your view. But we are going round in circles here. Do you honestly think that if there was any cast iron, irrefutable scientific evidence that ET had been here before, and therefore exists, that it would be released to the general public?


Do you honestly think that all evidence isn't taken seriously and investigated? How do you think we come to conclusions based upon the available evidence? Guess work?

...and yes, I do believe that any and all evidence would be released to the general public. People simply can't hold secrets, especially big ones. There's always a whistle blower out there that's willing to spread the truth.

Based upon your inability to state those "list" items in a neutral way, I would say that you are compromised, and not only in my view, it's self-evident just from reading it. You insist upon putting a slant in there that slams the opposition's views - yet when I did the same to point out the slant by example, you said I was doing myself an injustice. Is there a double standard being applied here that prevents you from being neutral?

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Message 1161785 - Posted: 13 Oct 2011, 4:37:28 UTC

Ozzfan,
Some day in the future, when me and Chris S are sitting in heaven beside the Lord God enjoying ourselves, sipping drinks and chatting about ancient alien theory, we will have a good laugh together reading back over the messages we shared on these forums. We will be laughing at you Ozzfan for not having just a little faith! Just enough faith to go investigate the true facts!

While thats happening Ozzfan, you and Richard Dawkins and your other atheist followers will be arguing with each other over who's fault it is that nobody bothered to actually investigate if there really was a God. It will be sheer hell for you guys that you never made it into heaven.

John.
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Message 1161857 - Posted: 13 Oct 2011, 13:03:16 UTC - in response to Message 1161785.

Ozzfan,
Some day in the future, when me and Chris S are sitting in heaven beside the Lord God ...


Ooooer...

Is that some modern day interpretation of an ancient Egyptian curse?


Meanwhile, how do you know that your idea of fun is the same idea of fun as that for an omnipotent God?

There is a world of difference between our omni-ignorance as compared to omnipotent boredom...


(I can't help but wonder at the very clever in-jokes and clever double meanings that permeate some religions. I suspect there were some very clever, thoughtful, and very bored monks of years ago. Why else have an unholy of ravens?!)

Keep searchin',
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Message 1161874 - Posted: 13 Oct 2011, 14:29:18 UTC

Actually a group of Ravens is called "Unkindness" of Ravens.

Some day in the future, when me and Chris S are sitting in heaven beside the Lord God ...

Ummm, I rather think it's more likey I'll end up in the other place, having raised the ire of our resident Demi-Gods Ozz & Bobby, I'm sure they've put a word in with his nibs! ;-)))

As people have pointed out, there is no provable scientific evidence that planet earth was ever visited by ET, or that any structures were built using ET supplied technology. But it is also true to say, that there there is no provable scientific evidence that it didn't happen.

[opinion warning on]
I think there is less doubt that it might have than there is that it didn't.
[opinion warning off]

Maybe the evidence one way or another is there but hasn't been discovered yet.

I do think that it's a rather blinkered, head in the sand attitude, to take the view that, "I'm not prepared to believe anything until you prove it scientifically to my satisfaction". That is what is coming across here from some responses. If people didn't have a bit of fire in their belly and go looking for things, to back up their beliefs, a lot of things wouldn't have been discovered when they were. Take Roald Amundsen and the North West Passage for example.

Take the church, 88% of the worlds population, 6.2 billion, currently follow and worship a religion. Yet not a single one of them have a shred of scientific proof or evidence that their god, or gods, ever did or do exist, or that there is a heaven or afterlife. Putting to one side upbringing, local custom, coercion, why do they do that?

Because they simply choose to believe in something, even though there is no evidence. Try standing outside a church on Sunday holding a placard that says "I ain't going in until you prove there is a god" I can just imagine the responses you'll get. And it's no different here. Some of us don't need cold hard scientific proof to believe in something.

The rest of you without any soul can stay in your scientific laboratory life, holding your metaphorical clipboard, I know which side of the fence I prefer to be on.

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Message 1161890 - Posted: 13 Oct 2011, 15:29:36 UTC - in response to Message 1161874.

But it is also true to say, that there there is no provable scientific evidence that it didn't happen.


You are referring to "lacking of evidence isn't evidence of lacking" and the scientific community doesn't operate that way. In order for a claim to be verified, there must be something that can be tested and repeatable. If there is nothing, then it holds no merit and is ignored until better evidence can be provided (if at all).

Take the church, 88% of the worlds population, 6.2 billion, currently follow and worship a religion. Yet not a single one of them have a shred of scientific proof or evidence that their god, or gods, ever did or do exist, or that there is a heaven or afterlife. Putting to one side upbringing, local custom, coercion, why do they do that?


People are known to like repetition, and they like being told stories that their existence has a higher meaning or purpose. Therefore, they will return to these spiritual worship places and continue to be lied to because it makes them feel good.

Because they simply choose to believe in something, even though there is no evidence. Try standing outside a church on Sunday holding a placard that says "I ain't going in until you prove there is a god" I can just imagine the responses you'll get. And it's no different here. Some of us don't need cold hard scientific proof to believe in something.


Fine, you don't need cold, hard scientific proof to believe... but if you want the rest of us who do require cold, hard scientific proof to believe, or you want us to agree with your conclusions, you'll need to back up your claims. Otherwise, what's the point of blathering opinions and beliefs?

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Message 1161892 - Posted: 13 Oct 2011, 15:33:38 UTC - in response to Message 1161785.

Ozzfan,
Some day in the future, when me and Chris S are sitting in heaven beside the Lord God enjoying ourselves, sipping drinks and chatting about ancient alien theory, we will have a good laugh together reading back over the messages we shared on these forums. We will be laughing at you Ozzfan for not having just a little faith! Just enough faith to go investigate the true facts!

While thats happening Ozzfan, you and Richard Dawkins and your other atheist followers will be arguing with each other over who's fault it is that nobody bothered to actually investigate if there really was a God. It will be sheer hell for you guys that you never made it into heaven.

John.


Johnney,

If it turns out that there is a God and a Heaven, and the two of you decide to laugh at us, I wish you all the best on that.

Do note, however, that there will be no arguing coming from me (and I seriously doubt the other Atheists will be arguing about it as well). In fact, I would not feel guilty or blame fault on anybody for not believing. After all, if the deity exists, it is up to them to make themselves known, not to keep everyone guessing about his/her/their existence.

Chances are, you nor Chris will be laughing when you're dead. You'll simply be dead.

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Message 1161929 - Posted: 13 Oct 2011, 17:36:36 UTC

but if you want the rest of us who do require cold, hard scientific proof to believe, or you want us to agree with your conclusions, you'll need to back up your claim

I am not asking you to agree, I would just like you to accept that the belief or conclusions that I and others may have come to, have as much validity as your own. Seeing as neither of us can bring forward irrefutable proof one way or the other, and are rather unlikely to, that seems to me to be an equitable way forward.

Chances are, you nor Chris will be laughing when you're dead. You'll simply be dead.

Probably as a doornail, but I'll be sure to let you know if not ;-)

(and I seriously doubt the other Atheists will be arguing about it as well)

Aha! Now we have your corner. To be fair I'm probably of that persuasion as well.

what's the point of blathering opinions and beliefs?

I don't blather old chap. Maybe foam at the mouth and dribble now and again, but definitely not blather.

After all, if the deity exists, it is up to them to make themselves known, not to keep everyone guessing about his/her/their existence.

Excuse me, why? If you were God Almighty and all powerful, why would you bother, you could please yourself. Wanns expand upon that one?

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Message 1161970 - Posted: 13 Oct 2011, 20:29:37 UTC - in response to Message 1161929.

but if you want the rest of us who do require cold, hard scientific proof to believe, or you want us to agree with your conclusions, you'll need to back up your claim

I am not asking you to agree, I would just like you to accept that the belief or conclusions that I and others may have come to, have as much validity as your own. Seeing as neither of us can bring forward irrefutable proof one way or the other, and are rather unlikely to, that seems to me to be an equitable way forward.


What determines a belief's validity is their ability to show proof and facts. If you cannot provide proof for the claim, then there's no reason to believe it. What you and many others keep failing to realize or accept is that the burden of proof falls on the claimee, ergo if you claim there is a God you must show irrefutable proof. To say that because I cannot prove there isn't a God, that your belief is just as valid as mine is disingenuous at best.

The only way forward for me is for believers to admit that they carry the burden of proof in their belief system; to stop claiming that Atheists or non-believers have their own faith and religion of not believing, and to amicably agree that they choose to believe in a higher power/deity out of faith, not out of knowing.

Aha! Now we have your corner.


I seriously doubt it! ;-P

After all, if the deity exists, it is up to them to make themselves known, not to keep everyone guessing about his/her/their existence.

Excuse me, why? If you were God Almighty and all powerful, why would you bother, you could please yourself. Wanns expand upon that one?


Why not? If I'm as arrogant, vain, and jealous as many religions depict me, I would definitely make myself known so they can all worship my greatness.

...and even if the religions have me pegged wrong on my arrogance, vanity, and jealousy, I see no reason why I should keep my existence secret. ...and don't give me any of that "God can do what he wants and it doesn't have to conform to your lowly human thinking" BS. If all of the elements of the universe have always existed while we've slowly discovered them, than I fail to see why such a large existence as a deity would be so hidden or secretive - especially since this deity has been alleged to have talked to numerous people throughout the millenia, and known to work in "mysterious" ways through people. Such a presence would not be hidden or hard to find.

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Message 1162077 - Posted: 14 Oct 2011, 3:19:09 UTC - in response to Message 1161345.
Last modified: 14 Oct 2011, 3:20:27 UTC

I always thought the hieroglyphics image below was rather interesting. It looks like there is a sub, plane and a helicopter.



You've heard of a Rorschach test, right? The viewer sees what they want to see out of the images, but it doesn't necessarily mean that's what the creator/artist meant to show, if anything was meant to be shown at all.

I would also be highly cautious and skeptical of any "internet" modifications of the original image so as to unscientifically change the evidence to favor one theory. Until I see an actual image of the original picture, I hesitate to make judgement on what it is I'm supposed to be seeing in the picture.


No, no, Ozz, definitely aliens. That carving on the top right is a curling stone, couldn't be anything else. The only way the ancient Egyptians could have made large sheets of ice to curl on would be using alien technology.

:P

On another note: isn't it interesting that these science forums have become like the political forums. People argue and argue and no one ever changes their mind.

Ozz my friend, I agree and support your arguments, but you are totally wasting your time. Rational thought and critical thinking has left the building :(
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Message 1162095 - Posted: 14 Oct 2011, 4:44:40 UTC - in response to Message 1162077.

Ozz my friend, I agree and support your arguments, but you are totally wasting your time. Rational thought and critical thinking has left the building :(


+1

(FWIW)
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Message 1162103 - Posted: 14 Oct 2011, 5:02:30 UTC - in response to Message 1162095.

Ozz my friend, I agree and support your arguments, but you are totally wasting your time. Rational thought and critical thinking has left the building :(


+1

(FWIW)


+2

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Message 1162162 - Posted: 14 Oct 2011, 11:03:23 UTC

Going by the strict title of this thread +3 because they weren't.

Going by rational thought and critical thinking has left the building -1

p.s. the image at the bottom of that frieze is definitely the batmobile, no doubt about it :-)

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Message 1162187 - Posted: 14 Oct 2011, 13:49:08 UTC - in response to Message 1162162.

p.s. the image at the bottom of that frieze is definitely the batmobile, no doubt about it :-)

Looks like a wood plane to me -- oh I said plane didn't I?

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Message 1162208 - Posted: 14 Oct 2011, 14:57:07 UTC - in response to Message 1162187.

Looks like a wood plane to me -- oh I said plane didn't I?

Why, could you get a stone plane to fly?

Keep searchin',
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Message 1162211 - Posted: 14 Oct 2011, 15:12:45 UTC

You want planes, we got planes ....

Planes

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Message 1162259 - Posted: 14 Oct 2011, 18:32:38 UTC - in response to Message 1162103.

Let's start a new project STI,(Search for Terrestrial Intelligence).
But then again, this thread will probally be ignored.

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Message 1162855 - Posted: 16 Oct 2011, 11:14:28 UTC

Sorry, my previous link got borked.

Plane

Let's start a new project STI,(Search for Terrestrial Intelligence).

Eric Idle did, but didn't find any!

And pray that there's intelligent life somewhere out in space,
'Cause there's bugger all down here on Earth!



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Message 1162871 - Posted: 16 Oct 2011, 13:31:02 UTC - in response to Message 1162855.

Sorry, my previous link got borked.

Plane

Let's start a new project STI,(Search for Terrestrial Intelligence).

Eric Idle did, but didn't find any!

And pray that there's intelligent life somewhere out in space,
'Cause there's bugger all down here on Earth!





May be he didn't had the time do to this important mission.
However you should Always Look on the Bright Side of Life.
Time will tell.

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Message 1162896 - Posted: 16 Oct 2011, 14:48:40 UTC
Last modified: 16 Oct 2011, 14:50:33 UTC

So after a good long discussion in this thread, i suppose we can summarise the discussion with the following points;

1. We seem to have proven conclusively that Aliens built the pyramids at Giza.

2. We seem to have conclusive proof that aliens did in-fact visit earth in ancient history.

3. We have proved beyond all doubt that God did in-fact create all the animals, plants and beasts on the earth. And us humans too!

4. We proved Ozzfan is a cranky person who idolises Charles Darwin and Richard Dawkins.

5. We proved Heaven does actually exist, beyond all doubt!

So this was a good productive discussion guys!! "Good job you guys!" as the Americans would say.

John.
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Message 1162933 - Posted: 16 Oct 2011, 16:48:19 UTC - in response to Message 1162896.

Are you really that childish Johnney?

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