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bobby
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Message 1149803 - Posted: 7 Sep 2011, 17:16:58 UTC - in response to Message 1149775.

A bit rich for the Jewish community to be supporting the gypsies in their endeavors to break the law especially after what happened to the jewish community via the lawless "Nazi" thugs in Germany during the 1940's.


Perhaps the Jewish community's memories of the "lawless" Nazis is better than yours?



I wouldn't be at all surprised to find that the so called Jewish Community is this instance will be several generations removed from Jewish people that actually experienced the holocaust.

I lived for years amongst a fine & lovely Jewish community in Stamford Hill, North London & my late mother worked within the Jewish community in Golders Green.

I think you'll find that those Jews would find it upsetting that others in their community would condone actual law breaking.


Agree, my Jewish friend keeps out of the community side of things..."Too many of them still completely buried in those Holocaust years", as he says.


Or perhaps some do not wish to make the same mistake again.

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Message 1149805 - Posted: 7 Sep 2011, 17:24:55 UTC - in response to Message 1149802.

Since then their leader has said that they will leave for £6 million. A figure which I am sure can be negotiated.


Again money. Discrimination of minorities? values? it seems that they have a price. £6 million.

Sirius B
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Message 1149813 - Posted: 7 Sep 2011, 17:31:52 UTC - in response to Message 1149805.

Since then their leader has said that they will leave for £6 million. A figure which I am sure can be negotiated.


Again money. Discrimination of minorities? values? it seems that they have a price. £6 million.



Yep. What I'm waiting to see is if the council negociates a financial settlement & if they do, then it begs the question....

"Why are cutbacks being made to essential services if money is available for this?"
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Message 1149823 - Posted: 7 Sep 2011, 17:45:15 UTC

All Councils have an emergency contingency fund for occurrences such as this. Figures were previously given of Basildon Councils estimates for a police presence and Baliffs fees, plus the estimated cost of clearing the site afterwards. I can't at the moment recall the figures, but it was nowhere near £6 million.

Cutbacks to services, whether deemed essential or otherwise, are intended to save hundreds of millions of pounds, not the relatively small amount that would be involved here.



Sirius B
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Message 1149826 - Posted: 7 Sep 2011, 17:46:54 UTC - in response to Message 1149823.

All Councils have an emergency contingency fund for occurrences such as this. Figures were previously given of Basildon Councils estimates for a police presence and Baliffs fees, plus the estimated cost of clearing the site afterwards. I can't at the moment recall the figures, but it was nowhere near £6 million.

Cutbacks to services, whether deemed essential or otherwise, are intended to save hundreds of millions of pounds, not the relatively small amount that would be involved here.



A favourite quote of my late mother's...

"Look after the pennies, & the pounds will look after themselves"
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Message 1149830 - Posted: 7 Sep 2011, 17:54:37 UTC
Last modified: 7 Sep 2011, 18:29:10 UTC

Hoo! Hoo! Hoo!

Pump high pressure water across all the site from all sides and very high in to the air for 10 days before the deadline. I wonder how many would be left after 5 days of continuous 24 hour per day soaking?

Pretend it's a global warming aspect leading to monsoon like tropical downpouring.
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Sirius B
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Message 1149833 - Posted: 7 Sep 2011, 18:00:43 UTC - in response to Message 1149830.
Last modified: 7 Sep 2011, 18:02:20 UTC

Hoo! Hoo! Hoo!

Pump high pressure water across all the site from all sides and very high in to the air for 10 days before the deadline. I wonder how many would be left after 5 days?

Pretend it's a global warming aspect leading to monsoon like tropical downpouring.



ROFLMAO

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Message 1149920 - Posted: 8 Sep 2011, 1:48:32 UTC - in response to Message 1149803.

Or perhaps some do not wish to make the same mistake again.



Valid point Bob, and one we all need to be aware of and on our guard against.

So best the whole of society plays it's part in making sure this never ever occurs to any group of people in the UK.
But we can't see into the future and God knows what kind of deranged political leader may take hold of this country at some time hence. Never knowing the future should make people aware that clues to it may very well be held in past history.

To avoid this then all groups have to make certain they are all knitted closely together so forming a single multi-ethnic and diverse community, we have done extremely well on this. But a minority group, the travelers, some have not realised this and breaking the law is just not helping here. They sit out on a limb and as travelers it's becoming harder and harder to accommodate them ad-hock. This is the reason why councils have to provide sites for them, sites with full amenities provided. If they wish for the community to be on their side then they have to earn the respect of the community first. Too many of them do not gain this respect for various reason that get well documented else where.

I expect that the travelling community have a lot to offer in the way of culture and such and I personally would hate to see this way of life disappear for ever.
But it is potentially at risk unless they bring themselves under the protective cover of the general communities umbrella. So this brings us to the forefront of the main problem today regarding building on there own land without proper building permission. If the law was set aside and the buildings permitted to stand this would have the potential to drive a wedge between the conforming general community and a minority group who do not have to so conform, that would not be a very good idea.

Some would profesise that the UK government, as well of those abroad, would like to put an end to the travelers way of life. I suspect that there's an element of some truth in this. The travelers need to show us Joe public why their way of life needs to be preserved, this isn't happening but it needs to happen. For as a country that prides itself on it's diversity of different cultures can we then afford to be seen to be losing a very old one. Personally I don't think it will survive as a nomadic roaming community as such. I suspect that the travelers know this themselves hence why some build permanent residences. They realise that the UK is not big enough or willing enough to accommodate them on the move as easily as it could do did do years ago. So to survive then they feel the need to settle down but in so doing they will find it harder to exclude themselves in the manner they have become accustomed to in the past.


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Message 1150032 - Posted: 8 Sep 2011, 11:44:15 UTC

Absolutely spot on. Well said MJ
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Message 1150050 - Posted: 8 Sep 2011, 14:12:44 UTC - in response to Message 1150032.

Absolutely spot on. Well said MJ


Thanks Sirius, I thought you might share my sentiments here.

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Message 1151416 - Posted: 12 Sep 2011, 10:32:50 UTC

With a week to go, the latest developments.

Dale Farm website

Express

Star

Telegraph

Guardian

This report from the Mail, is not directly about Dale Farm but is about Travellers.

Mail

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Message 1152048 - Posted: 14 Sep 2011, 8:28:39 UTC

Starting to ramp up ...


Control base

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bobby
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Message 1152086 - Posted: 14 Sep 2011, 12:43:15 UTC - in response to Message 1151416.

With a week to go, the latest developments.

Dale Farm website

Express

Star

Telegraph

Guardian

This report from the Mail, is not directly about Dale Farm but is about Travellers.

Mail



I'd say the Mail article is about criminals that happen to be travellers. I suspect there are very few communities in the UK that are free of any criminal element. We should be wary of falling for the association fallacy.

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Message 1152188 - Posted: 14 Sep 2011, 18:38:42 UTC

I presume part of the eviction process will be to cut off electricity and running water 5 days before it all happens?
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Message 1152433 - Posted: 15 Sep 2011, 12:02:55 UTC

I doubt it John. There are elderly people and children there, that simply have to be considered. The way that this is dealt with and the eventual outcome, will greatly affect similar sites elsewhere in the UK. It is vitally important that the authorities get it right.

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Message 1152719 - Posted: 16 Sep 2011, 11:52:42 UTC

Preparations begin

Unpopular cause

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Message 1152789 - Posted: 16 Sep 2011, 15:29:42 UTC

Final appeal fails

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Message 1153133 - Posted: 17 Sep 2011, 10:49:50 UTC

I wonder if any BHL will continue to support the travellers once this is confirmed?

Best of Both Worlds?
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Message 1153147 - Posted: 17 Sep 2011, 11:44:02 UTC

As you rightly say, these reports need to be confirmed. But what this also does do is underline my original contention (disputed by others)that, there are a number of different social classes involved here. There are undoubtedly some original Romany Gypsies there, there are some New Age Travellers known as Pikeys, and there are some known as Irish Tinkers.

What we are now hearing is that there is another group, who have serious property assets back in Ireland, and obviously not short of money, or an alternative place to live. So why are they here? Why live in a caravan in England when you have a lovely house back home? It doesn't make any sense, unless it is a scam to claim benefits in both countries?

But more to the point, there are elderly people there, and others that may genuinely not have anywhere to go, and of course the welfare of the children needs to taken into consideration. The eviction will happen, it just has to, but I wouldn't want to be the man in charge of it. A classic lose/lose situation.

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Message 1153349 - Posted: 17 Sep 2011, 21:56:37 UTC - in response to Message 1153147.

As you rightly say, these reports need to be confirmed. But what this also does do is underline my original contention (disputed by others)that, there are a number of different social classes involved here. There are undoubtedly some original Romany Gypsies there, there are some New Age Travellers known as Pikeys, and there are some known as Irish Tinkers.

What we are now hearing is that there is another group, who have serious property assets back in Ireland, and obviously not short of money, or an alternative place to live. So why are they here? Why live in a caravan in England when you have a lovely house back home? It doesn't make any sense, unless it is a scam to claim benefits in both countries?

But more to the point, there are elderly people there, and others that may genuinely not have anywhere to go, and of course the welfare of the children needs to taken into consideration. The eviction will happen, it just has to, but I wouldn't want to be the man in charge of it. A classic lose/lose situation.

What has this to do with social classes?

From their web site:
it [the property] was a scrapyard before it was purchased by Travellers as a site to build their homes.


Are there no zoning laws to control where residences can be built? A former scrap yard is not normally zoned for residential use simply because of the hazardous material that may have leaked into the soil.

Clearly the judge thinks the settlement is illegal and now it's just a matter of clearing the people off the land. A simple process once the legal decisions have been handed down.

Also, if you look at the photos, it's clear that the surrounding land isn't residential either.

IMO, this is a case of someone (a group) buying a piece of property (which may have been originally purchased for vehicle storage) and then illegally converting it for another purpose.
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