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Profile S@NL Blue Angel
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Message 1171366 - Posted: 16 Nov 2011, 11:45:33 UTC

I all want you to know, that I knew Saif Gaddafi from years ago
because of his paintings, and the good work he is done.
Also on my Facebook and his,Libya also could be the one
who could sponsor Seti@Home..when you see this video
you all understand why, cause Seti@Home cost allot
of money, and we try to help from every country.
And I hope the Green resistens will prevail.
I sure do hope that Saif become in charge again
Cause if....then I sure will tell him about this
project.

Greetings Blue Angel

http://vimeo.com/26548643

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Message 1171378 - Posted: 16 Nov 2011, 14:09:41 UTC - in response to Message 1171354.

I had intended to let this thread die a peaceful death, but it appears that it's now going to start all over again ......

[...]

They're back!


So... As quoted in that article, their justification is that they are a 'tough lot' just to spite everyone else... The attitude of Kings and ignorance?...


There's also:

Men in court accused of slavery offences after police raid

Three men accused of slavery offences after a police raid on a travellers' camp have appeared in court. ...

... from Hampshire and ... from Nottingham, appeared before Southampton magistrates. ...



So, they are 'travellers', yet have fixed addresses elsewhere in the country?...


An abuse of terms or an abuse of an old tradition?

Regards,
Martin



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Message 1171407 - Posted: 16 Nov 2011, 16:16:52 UTC
Last modified: 16 Nov 2011, 16:18:14 UTC

So, they are 'travellers', yet have fixed addresses elsewhere in the country?...

An abuse of terms or an abuse of an old tradition?


Times have moved on Martin. Years ago Travellers did indeed travel around the UK, generally during the summer months, following fairs and circuses, and generally looking for work where they could find it. These days most Travellers reside in a permanent place of residency, and "Travellers" refers more now to their preferred lifestyle, rather than their mobility.

@ S@NL-Blue Angel - Your views upon Gaddafi and Obama may well be worth noting, but not in this thread, which is about a completely different topic altogether. May I please ask that you post anything further elsewhere. Thank you.

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Message 1171711 - Posted: 17 Nov 2011, 20:29:38 UTC

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Profile John Clark
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Message 1171863 - Posted: 18 Nov 2011, 9:32:31 UTC - in response to Message 1171711.
Last modified: 18 Nov 2011, 9:33:34 UTC

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If I remember the news reporting that each Travelling Dale Farm resident, before the Bailiffes moved in a few weeks ago, were each and all offered access to alternative legal un-occupied sites. But, these were in other local authority camp sites away from Dale Farm. This offer was turned down. So, there claim the Council did not do something is rubbished.
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Message 1171885 - Posted: 18 Nov 2011, 12:13:15 UTC

This is developing into an ongoing battle of claims and counter-claims.

From what I recall John, the offer of alternative legal accommodation was in the Liverpool area. Not really surprising that it was turned down as being unsuitable. The Travellers say they have nowhere else to go to, what they really mean is nowhere they WANT to go to.

There has to be a compromise somewhere along the line. The Council can't expect to evict people onto the street and then quietly choose to forget that they still exist. For their part, the Travellers have to to accept that their chosen lifestyle is a niche society which is not very popular with everyone else.

I can't believe that it is beyond the wit and ability of of all sides, to find a nearer legal site to Dale Farm, where they can go and live in peace and quiet, without being a hindrance to others. This situation will rumble on forever until that happens.

In the meantime, the Land Registry laws in the UK need to be amended, to require all intended sales and purchases of land to be vetted first by local Councils. If necessary the Council should have powers of compulsory purchase to block any undesirable transactions. Had this been in place 10 years ago, the sale of the Dale Farm land to the travellers wouldn't have happened, as it would have been obvious what their future intentions were.

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Message 1171902 - Posted: 18 Nov 2011, 13:41:09 UTC - in response to Message 1171885.

... In the meantime, the Land Registry laws in the UK need to be amended, to require all intended sales and purchases of land to be vetted first by local Councils. If necessary the Council should have powers of compulsory purchase to block any undesirable transactions. Had this been in place 10 years ago, the sale of the Dale Farm land to the travellers wouldn't have happened, as it would have been obvious what their future intentions were.

Can't agree to that idea... All far too dangerous and against everyone's freedoms.

We do have an assumption of innocence until proven guilty by intent or action.

Shame we seem to be quickly losing that for the internet... Would you want the MPAA and RIAA and their BPA puppets, or any petty public dictator regulating where you can call home?...

Regards,
Martin

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Message 1171929 - Posted: 18 Nov 2011, 16:09:36 UTC

Is Dale Farm, like the land claims on an Indian Reservation?

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Message 1171939 - Posted: 18 Nov 2011, 17:17:42 UTC

@Gary - Not really. There was a scrapyard at the back of the legal part of Dale Farm. The owner was refused permission to continue the business, so he sold the land to the Travellers. At the time of the sale it reverted from Brown belt land to Green belt land. The Travellers set up homes on the site, and applied for planning permission for residential use, which was refused. They still own the land but cannot use it to live on.

In 1970 and 1974, the Oneida Indian Nation of New York, Oneida Nation of Wisconsin and the Oneida Nation of the Thames filed lawsuits in the United States District Court for the Northern District of New York alleging that reservation land granted to them by a treaty between the Oneida Indian Nation of New York and New York state was taken from the Indian tribes without Congressional approval.

The OIN petitioned the U.S. Supreme Court to grant cert. In Oneida Indian Nation v. County of Oneida, the Court decided in the Oneida Indian Nation's favor.[8]


@Martin - UK Councils are not petty dictators. They have a public, Civic, and legal duty to uphold the law. An assumption of innocence until proven guilty is the basis of British law, but that also requires a measure of good old common sense and not being naive. Why do you think Travellers buy land? To grow flowers & vegetables? To fly kites? To admire the butterflies?

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Message 1171957 - Posted: 18 Nov 2011, 18:02:59 UTC

As the travellers are trying to repeat what they did for 10 years, and losing every appeal, vexatious appeal as it turned out, and they are trying to do the same. It seems they are ignoring the lesson normal, reasonable minded people would. If the Council has to go through the hoops again, then each and all costs related to their actions MUST be charged to the travellers. Moreover, all support by means of legal aid MUST be refused as well.
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Message 1171988 - Posted: 18 Nov 2011, 20:36:29 UTC - in response to Message 1171939.
Last modified: 18 Nov 2011, 20:36:44 UTC

@Martin - UK Councils are not petty dictators. They have a public, Civic, and legal duty to uphold...

Indeed so, and my example was one of a deliberately chosen example gone extreme to everyone's detriment...


...but that also requires a measure of good old common sense and not being naive. Why do you think Travellers buy land? To grow flowers & vegetables? To fly kites? To admire the butterflies?

And that is where assumed power corrupts...

A group of "Travellers" may well wish to buy some greenbelt land to go green and grow grass for their horses. Who knows unless we ask them and then see how their actions turn out. Before that, for us to 'presume' would be draconian and unfairly pre-emptive for those "Travellers" who are of good habits and good intentions.


Granted, there are certain groups that "take the piss" and so "common sense" should be used to raise the level of awareness so as to be pre-emptively prepared, but nothing further than that.

Regards,
Martin
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Message 1172193 - Posted: 19 Nov 2011, 15:04:59 UTC - in response to Message 1171988.
Last modified: 19 Nov 2011, 15:47:12 UTC

Travellers who are of good habits and good intentions? What planet are you living on? Only this week, since the 'return' from ROI of these scum-bags, thefts and attempted thefts have gone through the roof, around here. On Wednesday evening someone attempted to break into our depot and were only foiled by a very heavy chain....the 'prize' was several hundred litres of diesel fuel in the tanks of dust-carts. Yes, all those new Transits pulling new caravans must have been thirsty! Before you say anything, it was recorded on a couple of high quality CCTV and is on a large HD awaiting Police viewing. Thefts in the area of Southend have also increased, in particular, sheds etc and only this morning at one of my garages, I noticed that many of the garages had new locks on them. I found out soon after, why this was. They had all been broken into and I'm one of the victims - a 2.8kW generator has 'vanished'. None of the power tools or cars was taken, just the generator, which was awaiting repair. Only a 'pikey' would be stupid enough to not test something before they stole it! If you really think these people are being persecuted, perhaps you should live and work in this area! You'd be in a minority if you did. By the way, don't give me that rubbish about growing grass for their horses....they don't give a fig about any livestock they may own. I've seen how they've treated livestock....after all, I do work in the legal department for a council!!!
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Message 1172213 - Posted: 19 Nov 2011, 15:49:01 UTC

I will back Iona's comments. Gypsy Horse Fairs have long been patrolled by the RSPCA, and for damn good reason too.

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Message 1172298 - Posted: 19 Nov 2011, 20:48:01 UTC - in response to Message 1172193.

Travellers who are of good habits and good intentions? What planet are you living on? Only this week, since the 'return' from ROI of these scum-bags, thefts and attempted thefts have gone through the roof, around here. On Wednesday evening someone attempted to break into our depot and were only foiled by a very heavy chain....the 'prize' was several hundred litres of diesel fuel in the tanks of dust-carts. Yes, all those new Transits pulling new caravans must have been thirsty! Before you say anything, it was recorded on a couple of high quality CCTV and is on a large HD awaiting Police viewing. Thefts in the area of Southend have also increased, in particular, sheds etc and only this morning at one of my garages, I noticed that many of the garages had new locks on them. I found out soon after, why this was. They had all been broken into and I'm one of the victims - a 2.8kW generator has 'vanished'. None of the power tools or cars was taken, just the generator, which was awaiting repair. Only a 'pikey' would be stupid enough to not test something before they stole it! If you really think these people are being persecuted, perhaps you should live and work in this area! You'd be in a minority if you did. By the way, don't give me that rubbish about growing grass for their horses....they don't give a fig about any livestock they may own. I've seen how they've treated livestock....after all, I do work in the legal department for a council!!!


I agree, and I also live just a short distance from this area (Laindon).

I have also in the past have had to come into contact with a large number from this type of community, whether any are from the Dale farm group I do not know, but I can tell you they do not make good neighbours.

In this area nothing is safe, lock it down or loose it.

The most popular burgular alarm around here has 4 legs and a healthy bark, GSD's are a popular pet around here.



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Message 1187655 - Posted: 23 Jan 2012, 13:10:42 UTC
Last modified: 23 Jan 2012, 13:16:17 UTC

And you thought it was all over ....

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Message 1187879 - Posted: 24 Jan 2012, 1:32:56 UTC
Last modified: 24 Jan 2012, 1:33:16 UTC

Perhaps after an eviction or two or three, the caravaners will start to see the UK acting as they did in Ireland causing them to move to softer targets (like us)
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Message 1188001 - Posted: 24 Jan 2012, 12:20:21 UTC

The problem of Travellers is not going to go away, that is clear. But there are many kinds of them. Scottish Travellers, New Age Travellers, Romanichal, Roma, and Irish Travellers.

Antiziganism

Ireland has a law that prohibits Travellers staying in any one place for more than 24 hours. This means in effect that they can park up overnight, but ensures that they move on the next day. It is also fairly well known that if that doesn't happen, the Guarda will usually turn a blind eye while the locals ensure that they do move on.

That wouldn't be allowed to happen in the UK, however, a law of that type could be usefully considered.

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Message 1188529 - Posted: 26 Jan 2012, 13:30:59 UTC

Gipsy TV complaints

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Message 1190073 - Posted: 30 Jan 2012, 14:34:51 UTC

More of the same

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Message 1190930 - Posted: 2 Feb 2012, 12:55:54 UTC

‘They have admitted we have a valuable role to play in monitoring the site but then decide to kick us off. It’s a disgrace that the planning system finds it easy to enforce against law-abiding tax-payers but seems to become paralysed when it comes to taking action against travellers and gypsies.’

Mr McGrath, a training consultant who lives yards from both camps, said the group would comply with the order but will ‘sit in the rain if necessary to maintain our vigil’ and urged the council to ‘speed up’ enforcement action against the travellers.

He said the group had the right to appeal the council’s decision, but would not on cost grounds.


If I spit any more nails, I'll be knee deep in 'em...


Meriden

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