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Profile Sirius B
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Message 1157011 - Posted: 29 Sep 2011, 9:04:30 UTC
Last modified: 29 Sep 2011, 9:04:53 UTC

One must be able to read situations & people & with the state of this country for the past 2 decades, that is becoming easier & easier....

As I've already stated...the Human Rights Act would have somehow been brought into play..well here we are....

Travellers Seek Unlawful Ruling under the Human Rights Act
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Profile Chris S
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Message 1157057 - Posted: 29 Sep 2011, 12:06:50 UTC
Last modified: 29 Sep 2011, 12:09:38 UTC

Well of course they were always going to use that one weren't they, that was obvious right from the start.

I notice that the Travellers studiously avoid mentioning anything whatsoever about the breaking of the Planning laws, that got them into this position in the first place. They have deflected the basis of the eviction to their opinion that it also constitute a breach of their human rights. Also that plans to demolish hard standings for caravans and remove buildings, walls and fences would amount to "over enforcement", not covered by the notice letter.

These guys obviously have enough funds to have access to quite clever legal advice. The only thing that puzzles me is why Cherie Booth hasn't pitched in, this sort of thing is right up that mad cow's street. And where is tree hugger Vanessa come to that?

All this is just delaying tactics, and they have yet another hearing on Monday, whatever the outcome of todays session. I wonder if their lawyers are working on a no win no fee basis?

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Profile Sirius B
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Message 1157062 - Posted: 29 Sep 2011, 12:33:23 UTC - in response to Message 1157057.
Last modified: 29 Sep 2011, 12:33:55 UTC

No, their lawyers are paid up front initially from all the illegal gains they have & these lawyers know this.

I've said it regardless of what law case it is, lawyers always win.

I don't think the B-Liar Witch wants to get involved with this in case it taints her celebrity status......
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Message 1157065 - Posted: 29 Sep 2011, 12:43:50 UTC - in response to Message 1157011.

One must be able to read situations & people & with the state of this country for the past 2 decades, that is becoming easier & easier....

As I've already stated...the Human Rights Act would have somehow been brought into play..well here we are....

Travellers Seek Unlawful Ruling under the Human Rights Act


"Mr Willers said: "This claim is brought on this basis: there is no alternative, suitable accommodation at this point in time, and it would be disproportionate to be forced to leave in the absence of such accommodation."

It was not being suggested that Ms Sheridan felt she had any hope or prospect of being granted planning permission at Dale Farm in the future. The judge heard the other claims for judicial review would raise several other legal issues under human rights legislation and planning law.


Says to me that human rights issues have not yet been brought before a court, though this does appear to indicate there is intent to do so, whether this attempt is successful remains to be seen.
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Message 1157069 - Posted: 29 Sep 2011, 13:04:05 UTC - in response to Message 1157057.

These guys obviously have enough funds to have access to quite clever legal advice. The only thing that puzzles me is why Cherie Booth hasn't pitched in, this sort of thing is right up that mad cow's street. And where is tree hugger Vanessa come to that?

All this is just delaying tactics, and they have yet another hearing on Monday, whatever the outcome of todays session. I wonder if their lawyers are working on a no win no fee basis?

BBC News


There is always the possibility that some or all the legal advice is being provided pro bono. It is also possible that there has been some funds collected specifically for the case.

If Cherie Booth, QC (a.k.a. Cherie Blair) were a poster to Seti@Home I'm sure she'd object to the description "mad cow" which I do not believe you have shown is deserved. It may well be Cherie could show that her current case load does not provide her with time to assist with the Travellers case. Why associate this QC specifically when, to date I don't believe we have any evidence that she has an interest in the case?

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Profile Chris S
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Message 1157070 - Posted: 29 Sep 2011, 13:06:20 UTC
Last modified: 29 Sep 2011, 13:28:05 UTC

I believe you are right Bobby in that they have not yet officially chucked in the Human Rights argument until today. But as I said everyone knew they would do.

Their lawyers are making repeated statements about things being inappropriate "at this point in time". That clearly seems to me to be deliberate delaying tactics. The Judge earlier said he would not be mindful to go along with that. At the moment we are all waiting for the outcome of todays hearings to be reported. IMHO I think that we will see the eviction ruled as lawful, but I also think it will be held over until Mondays hearing.

As regards Ms Booth, she practises for Matrix chambers which specialises in Human Rights cases. I just feel that this the sort of case she would relish, although she has been criticised in the past for handing down lenient sentences as a REcorder. Ok I will agree that calling her an MC was unfair, I'll retract that comment.

I see that Miliband the Younger has now stuck his oar in as well Miliband. Plus the local MEP MEP and also Wales is going it's own way Wales

Brian Rix and Ray Cooney could learn much from this lot.

Profile Sirius B
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Message 1157074 - Posted: 29 Sep 2011, 13:40:20 UTC

One point that sorely sticks out but not covered anywhere is the fact that they are travellers, claiming benefits, ignoring planning laws, paying no income tax, council tax...in other words, clearly flouting the laws of society...

...so WHY hasn't anyone come up with the point that as they consider themselves outside society, any local authority shouldn't have to provide alternative accomodation for the very fact that their lifestyle is travelling?

Why should fixed accomodation be provided? If one puts oneself outside of society, one cannot then expect that society to cater for you when you hit a problem.

Where is the Inland Revenue to investigate the finances available to purchase their suv's & other purchases?
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Message 1157089 - Posted: 29 Sep 2011, 14:59:47 UTC

"I would like to remind Mr Miliband that this council has sought a peaceful and negotiated resolution for more than 10 years and we provide more authorised pitches than any other authority in the East of England, and one of the largest numbers in the country.

"I believe we have acted incredibly tolerantly and sensitively to the situation and I have indeed received criticism in some quarters for dealing with the situation too sensitively.

"What more does Mr Miliband think we could have done, and does he believe we should uphold the law or not?"


Well, the Travellers are gonna love this infighting aren't they. Always helps when your opponents are in disarray! Plus it also seems another 2 days for this current hearing. I doubt anything will happen before the middle of next week.

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Message 1157864 - Posted: 1 Oct 2011, 13:24:08 UTC

In the interests of fair reporting I will quote this from todays UK Daily Mail.

Then inevitably, there is Vanessa Redgrave, the darling of the radicals and lost causes for decades, who is often on site to speak to television crews. Her late brother, Corin, suffered a heart attack in 2005 while pleading with Councilors not to evict the travellers from Dale Farm. Vanessa, a veteran of the Trotskyist Workers Revolutionary Party said : 'Forty Travellers came to the Basildon Hospital to pray for him.'


I didn't think she had been seen recently, but it seems I was wrong. I also wasn't fully aware of her families previous ties with Dale Farm.

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Message 1158498 - Posted: 3 Oct 2011, 14:52:18 UTC

Clearance upheld for 49 out of 54 plots, but held over yet again. It seems clear now that the travellers will be going at some point, but in the meantime they have driven a coach and horses through the legal system by managing to hang on for this long.

Nearly ....

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Message 1158652 - Posted: 3 Oct 2011, 23:14:04 UTC - in response to Message 1158498.

This small delay, should give the 'missing men' sufficient time to 'acquire' the much-liked, cash, for the purposes of whatever they want. They pay no taxes of any kind. They receive/con benefits (using 'communal children' for Child Benefits). They steal virtually anything that is not near an 'event horizon'. These people have property that many, where they currently 'reside', would regard as 'Heaven'. They have 'played the system' for years, aided by people who have 'private means' to cause trouble. Frankly, the 'face' that is presented by these people, is not one that many in the Basildon area would recognise. If these people were the law-abiding folks, that they claim to be, there would be no huge problem with them. However, these people don't give a fig about anyone but themselves and only what they can 'screw' out of any system, that was there to help the needy! You certainly won't see any residents of Basildon, with rolls of cash, as they have. Its always cash. Virtually undetectable.

Imagine your worst next-door-neighbour; ever. Now multiply that by ten. Believe me, thats a long way short of these 'travellers'. Travellers who stay in one place! There are rich pickings to be had (by theft and con) in this area....thats why they don't 'travel'!!! Last and least, don't believe that the pictures that you see in the papers are of 'travellers', as, numerous groups of people are now posing for the photographs of 'travellers', while actually being from 'well-off' families in England.






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Message 1158698 - Posted: 4 Oct 2011, 2:21:41 UTC

Just give them a little American Justice. Before they get a chance to go back to their home, seize it and sell it to cover the court costs of their endless appeals. Then they really will be a traveler!

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Message 1158758 - Posted: 4 Oct 2011, 9:15:57 UTC

Last and least, don't believe that the pictures that you see in the papers are of 'travellers', as, numerous groups of people are now posing for the photographs of 'travellers', while actually being from 'well-off' families in England.


Yes, there are numerous reports of this happening, plus free legal advice from upper class young lawyers. The Travellers and the Gypsy Council seem happy to go along with this.

Before they get a chance to go back to their home, seize it and sell it to cover the court costs of their endless appeals. Then they really will be a traveler!


They actually bought the land and own it quite legally, so it couldn't be sold over their heads without a compulsory purchase order, which I doubt the Council would get.

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Message 1158783 - Posted: 4 Oct 2011, 12:02:54 UTC

This is interesting, and, if true, may demonstrate that Basildon does not enforce planning permission laws uniformly:

The Dale Farm campaigners have found documents, and a first hand witness who’ll give statements, that Gridley’s property, Windy Ridge, was “unlawfully built.” It was built on the same greenbelt that’s being used as the excuse to evict Dale Farm, and it was done without planning permission. The council served an enforcement notice on the property but never took action. Gridley later applied for, and got, planning permission to continue the development.

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Message 1158788 - Posted: 4 Oct 2011, 12:12:07 UTC - in response to Message 1158783.

This is interesting, and, if true, may demonstrate that Basildon does not enforce planning permission laws uniformly:

The Dale Farm campaigners have found documents, and a first hand witness who’ll give statements, that Gridley’s property, Windy Ridge, was “unlawfully built.” It was built on the same greenbelt that’s being used as the excuse to evict Dale Farm, and it was done without planning permission. The council served an enforcement notice on the property but never took action. Gridley later applied for, and got, planning permission to continue the development.


"Unauthoried Building Application" A form you fill out at the councils discretion if your building is deemed to have required planning permission prior to having been built without planning permission. A cheats form that somehow lets you get away with a building construction that had you officially applied for planning permission, in the first place, the authority to build would then not have been given.

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Message 1158850 - Posted: 4 Oct 2011, 21:17:16 UTC - in response to Message 1158758.

Before they get a chance to go back to their home, seize it and sell it to cover the court costs of their endless appeals. Then they really will be a traveler!


They actually bought the land and own it quite legally, so it couldn't be sold over their heads without a compulsory purchase order, which I doubt the Council would get.

In an American civil court, frequently the looser has to pay court costs and legal fees of both sides. It is a easy matter to get an order to enforce payment of a debt which lets you grab anything you can find and sell at auction to satisfy the debt. Think of the Goldman family and OJ Simpson. I wasn't suggesting the Dale Farm property either, but their nice legal one month a year homes.

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Message 1159748 - Posted: 7 Oct 2011, 13:15:58 UTC
Last modified: 7 Oct 2011, 13:17:45 UTC

I see the news on an illegal traveller moving on to green belt land and then developing it, despite a court order not to do so, was jailed for 4 months.

I surmise that "if the action taken here to get a court order forbidding the land development was done more often and quickly. Then the head of the traveller family then jsiled for contenpt of court, I think this would become a thing of the past very quickly."

Pity that was not the action taken at Dale Farm 10 years ago.
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Profile Sirius B
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Message 1159873 - Posted: 7 Oct 2011, 18:22:07 UTC - in response to Message 1159748.

I see the news on an illegal traveller moving on to green belt land and then developing it, despite a court order not to do so, was jailed for 4 months.

I surmise that "if the action taken here to get a court order forbidding the land development was done more often and quickly. Then the head of the traveller family then jsiled for contenpt of court, I think this would become a thing of the past very quickly."

Pity that was not the action taken at Dale Farm 10 years ago.



Aw, c'mon.....the local jobsworths must have a valid reason to increase the annual Council Tax rates......
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Message 1160522 - Posted: 9 Oct 2011, 9:09:57 UTC

Well, the Travellers are still there. The court has upheld the that the Council can evict the majority of them, but has kept the injunction in force. We just have to clear the last of the legal objections, which will be heard in the next couple of days. Things should start happening this week.

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Message 1160564 - Posted: 9 Oct 2011, 13:32:13 UTC

Some hope!

Their lawyers will find another pretext funded by legal aid.
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