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Profile celttooth
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Message 1149036 - Posted: 4 Sep 2011, 23:51:38 UTC

Hi Michael, I have only recently moved back to live in Canada so don't know what the situation is here.


Here in Alberta it is true that people don’t camp out when the temperatures go down a bit in the winter. Years ago while I was still at work a report came across my desk about families from the southern part of the United Sates who traveled up to Edmonton and other civic centers to stay for most of the summer. These families were known to make a living by shop lifting at the larger big box stores and shopping malls. Now some of these people were known as Romany. Not all were caught breaking the law, most did not live in tents or trailers, most lived in motels. (Small road side accommodations.) In almost every case these people moved around in family groups. The ones that were caught as thieves were in fact very sophisticated at what they did. Again, they mostly lived in Motels, they came in the late spring, and they left in the early fall. Not all were criminals, and not all identified as Romany or Gypsys. I don’t know about other parts of the country, and very little about how these people live in the United States.
I can say that the population of this part of Canada do not know a lot about them. If these people are a problem here, they are not a well known one.

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Message 1149039 - Posted: 4 Sep 2011, 23:56:35 UTC

The only problem I have with all of this is "they're supposed to be travellers"?

Really? SO why need a fixed base?

As far as I'm concerned, the moment they set up a permanent static residence, they become residents & legally liable for all taxes & utilitiy bills due!

So, which is it to be? Travellers or residents? And that is sweet damn all to do with racism!
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Message 1149044 - Posted: 5 Sep 2011, 0:17:15 UTC - in response to Message 1149036.

They do the same in the USA, very very organized. Others pretend to be contractors or handymen. Needless to say work is so substandard it is hazardous and you had better inventory your dwelling after they leave. A few are part of a carnival. Doubt the rides ever get inspected, but at least they aren't out boosting stuff. Some that have settled down become fortune tellers.

In older days, grandpa's time, word that the Gypsies were in town meant to lock everything up and sit on your porch with a shotgun. Literally.

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Message 1149048 - Posted: 5 Sep 2011, 0:34:06 UTC
Last modified: 5 Sep 2011, 0:35:02 UTC

From Doncaster council which has the largest number of Gypsy and Traveller population.

Gypsy & Traveller Myth Buster

Profile Sirius B
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Message 1149050 - Posted: 5 Sep 2011, 1:12:08 UTC - in response to Message 1149048.

From Doncaster council which has the largest number of Gypsy and Traveller population.

Gypsy & Traveller Myth Buster



Fantastic...currently printing it out for forwarding to the Race Relations Board.

That is the one of the most highly discriminating documents I've ever had the pleasure in reading....

Follow ups to come..............
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Message 1149051 - Posted: 5 Sep 2011, 1:23:05 UTC - in response to Message 1149030.

So we have a hierarchy of different travelling communities? First of all these people are not "New Age Travellers" they are an ethnic cultural minority in their own right and have been around for several centuries.

The site that they are being evicted from was originally a "brownfield" site which was then termed "greenbelt" when it was bought, it was originally a scrapyard. Read the history of the restrictions on "travellers" with reference to the Criminal Justice and Public Order Act 1994 which repealed the Caravan Sites Act 1968 to provide sites for gypsy and traveller use.

Pikey is a pejorative term, offensive to the travelling community and seen as racist.



Well Hev feels that they should be favored since there a minority group so does the local Jewish community too. Yes, they are a minority group because they chose to be one. But this tag they have does not permit them to break the law. A bit rich for the Jewish community to be supporting the gypsies in their endeavors to break the law especially after what happened to the jewish community via the lawless "Nazi" thugs in Germany during the 1940's. The laws of the land must be upheld at all costs this way the whole population feels protected and too promotes confidence that the judicial system acts for all and not just for some. There can not be any special case for these gypsies for they have no grounds for it. They are all part of the community as a whole and the laws created are done so for the benefit of the whole community and not just for some parts of it. To this end the gypsies have NO defense against special treatment else they will have to show why they are not part of the community. If they attempt to do this then our government would be guilty of permitting self segregation if they accepted their case. This would be highly dangerous and would lead to racism against these gypsies. So it would be best for all concerned that the UK government enforces the law against them for the best interests of the community as a whole and for the gypsies too.

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Message 1149086 - Posted: 5 Sep 2011, 4:43:02 UTC - in response to Message 1149050.

From Doncaster council which has the largest number of Gypsy and Traveller population.

Gypsy & Traveller Myth Buster



Fantastic...currently printing it out for forwarding to the Race Relations Board.

That is the one of the most highly discriminating documents I've ever had the pleasure in reading....

Follow ups to come..............

Really Sirius? It seemed perfectly rational and reasonable to me.

I'm not sure if you know what the word 'discriminating' actually means.
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Profile Sirius B
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Message 1149111 - Posted: 5 Sep 2011, 7:46:16 UTC - in response to Message 1149086.
Last modified: 5 Sep 2011, 8:11:35 UTC

From Doncaster council which has the largest number of Gypsy and Traveller population.

Gypsy & Traveller Myth Buster



Fantastic...currently printing it out for forwarding to the Race Relations Board.

That is the one of the most highly discriminating documents I've ever had the pleasure in reading....

Follow ups to come..............

Really Sirius? It seemed perfectly rational and reasonable to me.

I'm not sure if you know what the word 'discriminating' actually means.



Really? Gypsies & IRISH Travellers...definitely discriminate in this country...where's the proof that travellers are only IRISH? WHAT about other nationalities..in the words of Lonnie Donnigan.."Those blooming british" & other nationalities...hmmmn....I really do love BHL's & find this tune suits them perfectly

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Message 1149127 - Posted: 5 Sep 2011, 9:50:26 UTC

I found that Doncaster report very useful reading indeed, and I was not aware of certain facts or information. I didn't know that Travellers are a recognised social community under the Race Relations Act, I knew Romany Gysies were but not those. I also didn't know that Councils have had no legal obligation to provide sites since 1984. I also didn't know that setting an an unauthorised encampment on someone elses land is not in itself a crime.

In this case they actually own the land, so what they are being evicted for is using designated green belt land for residential purposes. A brownfield site is classed as one that is not now being used for its previous purpose. So if it was a scrapyard and was in disuse when it was bought, then it was technically a brownfield site. I can only assume that the council re-designated it as greenfield to stop the scrapyard being re-activated.

They are called Irish Travellers simply because the majority of them are in fact Irish, if they were all Welsh they would be simply be called Welsh Travellers. The Irish have laws to prevent Travellers sites, which is why they have chosen to come to England to live their lifestyle. It is NOT a racist descrimination at all.

The UN diving in has unfortunately muddied the waters and not helped. This situation has now changed from one of simple breaking of planning laws to one of alleged racist discrimination against a recognised minority community, which is a completely different thing altogether. The only chance they had to stay there was to go down this route, they wouldn't have won the first battle.

Yes I think we do have different travelling communities, I'm decribing the groups of caravans and motor homes that do travel in convoys around the country. We had an incidence within a couple of miles from me about 5 years ago. Overnight 30 vans turned up and camped on an open public grassed area used to walk dogs and play football. They were there for 4 months before they got shifted on.

During that time local shoplifting soared as did petty crime and housebreaking. There was an increase in disorder in local pubs, and women with young kids would beg in the street, and swore at you if you wouldn't give them anything. Others knocked on doors selling lucky heather for £1, and gave you a curse if you didn't buy it. I learnt later from the police that there was also extra sales of drugs by the local dealers. Those are what we call Pikeys.

The mess they left behind was horrific, a burnt out car, broken furniture, human and dog excrement, areas where they had lit fires, rats were seen, old clothes and bin bags littered the place. It took the council weeks to clean it up. A year later you could still see the after effects.

The group at Dale Farm do not appear to be like them, so yes I do think there are different levels of travellers, some which give a bad name to others. So what is the way forward here ?

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Message 1149130 - Posted: 5 Sep 2011, 10:16:35 UTC

Sorry Chris but you're wrong on several points. 1: I made no mention of racist discrimination but discrimination itself. 2: this country is now highly Political Correct...that Doncaster link should be along the lines as Leeds have done... Gypsy, Roma & Traveller Communities.

Therefore if PC is to be understood, there should be no singling out of any particular nationality..however as been proved many times in the past BHL's tend to be choosy at what they stand up for & defend.
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Message 1149191 - Posted: 5 Sep 2011, 16:12:40 UTC

OK, we'll agree to disagree then :-) Can you please confirm what BHL's are, I'm not clear on that one.

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Message 1149204 - Posted: 5 Sep 2011, 16:31:31 UTC - in response to Message 1149191.

OK, we'll agree to disagree then :-) Can you please confirm what BHL's are, I'm not clear on that one.


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Message 1149209 - Posted: 5 Sep 2011, 16:45:52 UTC

OK thanks, should have twigged really, I even couldn't even find it on the web!

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Message 1149511 - Posted: 6 Sep 2011, 18:57:54 UTC
Last modified: 6 Sep 2011, 18:58:28 UTC

"Well if we're gonna have to go, might as well try and make a few bob out of it...."

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Message 1149744 - Posted: 7 Sep 2011, 15:19:14 UTC - in response to Message 1149051.
Last modified: 7 Sep 2011, 15:19:55 UTC

A bit rich for the Jewish community to be supporting the gypsies in their endeavors to break the law especially after what happened to the jewish community via the lawless "Nazi" thugs in Germany during the 1940's.


Perhaps the Jewish community's memories of the "lawless" Nazis is better than yours?
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I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that ...

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Message 1149750 - Posted: 7 Sep 2011, 15:41:00 UTC - in response to Message 1149744.
Last modified: 7 Sep 2011, 15:44:19 UTC

A bit rich for the Jewish community to be supporting the gypsies in their endeavors to break the law especially after what happened to the jewish community via the lawless "Nazi" thugs in Germany during the 1940's.


Perhaps the Jewish community's memories of the "lawless" Nazis is better than yours?



I wouldn't be at all surprised to find that the so called Jewish Community is this instance will be several generations removed from Jewish people that actually experienced the holocaust.

I lived for years amongst a fine & lovely Jewish community in Stamford Hill, North London & my late mother worked within the Jewish community in Golders Green.

I think you'll find that those Jews would find it upsetting that others in their community would condone actual law breaking.
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Message 1149775 - Posted: 7 Sep 2011, 16:27:20 UTC - in response to Message 1149750.
Last modified: 7 Sep 2011, 16:27:48 UTC

A bit rich for the Jewish community to be supporting the gypsies in their endeavors to break the law especially after what happened to the jewish community via the lawless "Nazi" thugs in Germany during the 1940's.


Perhaps the Jewish community's memories of the "lawless" Nazis is better than yours?



I wouldn't be at all surprised to find that the so called Jewish Community is this instance will be several generations removed from Jewish people that actually experienced the holocaust.

I lived for years amongst a fine & lovely Jewish community in Stamford Hill, North London & my late mother worked within the Jewish community in Golders Green.

I think you'll find that those Jews would find it upsetting that others in their community would condone actual law breaking.


Agree, my Jewish friend keeps out of the community side of things..."Too many of them still completely buried in those Holocaust years", as he says.

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Message 1149790 - Posted: 7 Sep 2011, 16:52:49 UTC
Last modified: 7 Sep 2011, 16:54:18 UTC

Prime Minister David Cameron has given his support to plans to evict travellers from the UK's largest illegal settlement, as barricades at the site reportedly prevented some residents from leaving.

Conservative MP John Baron, who represents Basildon and Billericay, asked Mr Cameron for his support during Prime Minister's questions. He said: "Will the Prime Minister join me in sending a very clear message to the travellers at the illegal Dale Farm site?

"We all hope they move off peacefully in order to avoid a forced eviction, but if not, be in no doubt the Government fully supports Basildon council and Essex Police in reclaiming this green belt land on behalf of the law-abiding majority."

Mr Cameron replied: "I certainly give my support to the Essex Police and to all the county and district councils that have been involved, and I pay tribute to the honourable member for the very hard work he's put in on this issue."


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Message 1149797 - Posted: 7 Sep 2011, 17:01:32 UTC - in response to Message 1149790.

Prime Minister David Cameron has given his support to plans to evict travellers from the UK's largest illegal settlement, as barricades at the site reportedly prevented some residents from leaving.

Conservative MP John Baron, who represents Basildon and Billericay, asked Mr Cameron for his support during Prime Minister's questions. He said: "Will the Prime Minister join me in sending a very clear message to the travellers at the illegal Dale Farm site?

"We all hope they move off peacefully in order to avoid a forced eviction, but if not, be in no doubt the Government fully supports Basildon council and Essex Police in reclaiming this green belt land on behalf of the law-abiding majority."

Mr Cameron replied: "I certainly give my support to the Essex Police and to all the county and district councils that have been involved, and I pay tribute to the honourable member for the very hard work he's put in on this issue."


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As I mentioned in earlier posts, the Government has no choice but to see that the law is upheld here.

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Message 1149802 - Posted: 7 Sep 2011, 17:11:35 UTC

The initial stance of the residents there was that they were being discriminated against as an recognised ethnic minority, and that they would stay as a matter of principle. Suported of course by all the left wing sympathisers that you would expect.

Since then their leader has said that they will leave for £6 million. A figure which I am sure can be negotiated.

So, the only issue now at stake is how much is it worth to the council to get rid of them. Which I think was probably the only real stumbling block in the first place.

Anyone feel that they have been stitched up?

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