Will you Buy Ikea Now?


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Profile Dr Imaginario
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Message 1146723 - Posted: 29 Aug 2011, 15:44:53 UTC

Just read an article in a newspaper, that Ingvar Kamprad founder of IKEA, was a Nazi supporter and affiliate during WWII and a Neo Nazi affiliate after WWII during the 50’s.

It seems that he always denied is Nazi affiliations until recently when they were published in a non authorized biography.

I don’t buy any FORD products, because Henry Ford was a Nazi Supporter, so I will never buy from IKEA for sure.

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Message 1146743 - Posted: 29 Aug 2011, 16:21:58 UTC - in response to Message 1146723.

Just read an article in a newspaper, that Ingvar Kamprad founder of IKEA, was a Nazi supporter and affiliate during WWII and a Neo Nazi affiliate after WWII during the 50’s.

It seems that he always denied is Nazi affiliations until recently when they were published in a non authorized biography.

I don’t buy any FORD products, because Henry Ford was a Nazi Supporter, so I will never buy from IKEA for sure.

You do know Henry Ford died in 1947. How many generations of hate do you believe are required, or is it never possible to stop hating?

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Message 1146746 - Posted: 29 Aug 2011, 16:34:06 UTC - in response to Message 1146743.

Do you know that the Ford Fundation held medical experiments in South America during the 50's and the 60's that included involuntary sterilization of human beings?

I don't hate Mr. Henry Ford he did what did, he supported what he supported, but i don't agree with is Nazi believes, neither i belive in Nacional Socialism or any radical right wing ideals that are about supremacy of one race above the other, or any kind of intolerance.

And, Yes Mr. Ford is an Icon of US industrialization and an Icon of the Auto industry. No one is denying is contribution. But like I said, not agreeing is not hating, besides I’ve visited auswitz and other concentration camps, and even today they are not a pretty thing to see.

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Message 1146755 - Posted: 29 Aug 2011, 17:02:31 UTC

No they're not a pretty sight..even empty & desolate, they raise the hairs on one's neck.

However, WWII ended 66 years ago AND every country in Europe as well as the USA benefited from captured enemy Scientists, Intelligence Officers, Businessmen etc...

..Werner Von Braun springs to mind.....

...so based on your OP, no one should be buying from each other as we've supported nazi's...

...So were will it all end?

As far as I'm concerned, we must not forget the past, but that's no reason to continue living in it.
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Message 1146764 - Posted: 29 Aug 2011, 17:21:50 UTC - in response to Message 1146746.

Do you know that the Ford Fundation held medical experiments in South America during the 50's and the 60's that included involuntary sterilization of human beings?

Are you aware in the 50's and 60's the United States courts ordered involuntary sterilization of human beings? I assume you will never buy anything made in or from something with a USA patent ever again.




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Message 1146767 - Posted: 29 Aug 2011, 17:31:38 UTC - in response to Message 1146755.

we must not forget the past, but that's no reason to continue living in it.


I can't agree more with it, and there is a very thin line between what is moral, and what it is not.

I think we see this invisible barrier every day, sometimes we even cross it as per the circumstances.

By the way, Nacional Socialism, Comunism, right wing ideals, intolerance did not died with WWII or with the end of the cold war, it still exists, it destroys and still kills.

Everytime someone is judge by being different intolerance is there, everytime a minority is blamed by the sins of the society agression is there.

Look at what happened in Norway recently as an example that intolerance still exists in Europe and in the democratic world.

Do I fancy mr Von Braun? not really, Do I fancy Mr Henry Ford, also not really, Do I appreciate Stalin, Hitler, Mussolini,Mao or other's also not really.

First concentration camps where created by the british during the Boer War, did humanity learned anything with it?

Did mankind learned anything from the holly inquisition?

I'm not a supporter or sympathizer about fascist regimes, neither I'm stuck in a past. I look forward for the future by enjoying the present.

I don't buy Ikea, or Ford? so what? there are people who do more stricked things because of their believes.

Better to have a cause and beliefes than to have a spineless life where anything is good or does not matter.

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Message 1146790 - Posted: 29 Aug 2011, 18:03:25 UTC

His support or politics have never influenced my buying choices on IKEA.

I have never bought their rubbiish and never will. C**p is my definition of their products, but the great majority who do buy from them would disagree with me.
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Message 1146796 - Posted: 29 Aug 2011, 18:15:08 UTC - in response to Message 1146790.

His support or politics have never influenced my buying choices on IKEA.

I have never bought their rubbiish and never will. C**p is my definition of their products, but the great majority who do buy from them would disagree with me.

I have no intention of purchasing anything from Ick-E-Uh either. Not because the dolt at the top was fool enough to help the Nazi's, but because the stuff they sell is crap.

Now FORD Inc made tons of military hardware in WWII that was used to kill Nazi's. Doesn't mean Henry Ford wasn't a bigot. I think most of their products are much better than those of Ick-E-Uh, but they aren't quality. Not much interested.

What you will find is that many successful firms hedged their bets and supported both sides or whoever was in power so they had a market for their product. After all it is the shareholders who they owe the duty to and that duty is make money any way possible. They have no duty to be moral.

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Message 1146817 - Posted: 29 Aug 2011, 18:59:31 UTC

First concentration camps where created by the british during the Boer War


Can you point me to some info on that please?

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Message 1146824 - Posted: 29 Aug 2011, 19:08:08 UTC - in response to Message 1146817.

First concentration camps where created by the british during the Boer War


Can you point me to some info on that please?

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/WARboer.htm
However I can't find anything saying they were "first"

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Message 1146836 - Posted: 29 Aug 2011, 19:25:18 UTC
Last modified: 29 Aug 2011, 19:30:30 UTC

Following your link, this is from Wikipaedia so it cannot be 100% guaranteed as correct. But if so, it is the first I have heard of it. I thought I knew British history pretty well, but if this is right, then it is quite disturbing ....

The first concentration camps were used by the British in the Second Boer War in Africa around 1900. The families of South African men fighting against the British were put in camps to stop them from giving food and help to the fighters. Their houses and farms were burned. At least 30,000 people, mostly children, died in these camps from sickness or hunger.

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Message 1146839 - Posted: 29 Aug 2011, 19:30:09 UTC

as the right honorable Rick Perry didn't say, "there is enough sin to go around.."
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Message 1146862 - Posted: 29 Aug 2011, 19:58:16 UTC - in response to Message 1146767.

Snip
First concentration camps where created by the british during the Boer War, did humanity learned anything with it?




Quite Wrong! Earlier than that was the Spanish General Valeriano Weyler in Cuba 1895 & before that were the US with the Native Indians in 1868(rounding up the Indians & interned until moved to reservations under the "Indian Removal Act" of 1830).

Every nation on the planet has committed atrocities in their history & should we refuse to buy goods because of that, then I'm afraid we'd all be dead from starvation or freeze to death...

Standard Oil
IT&T
C&W

These three are well known for their dealings with Germany during WWII, but I'm pretty sure there were many more for the simple fact is that "Money Talks, Honesty Walks" & has been that way for a very long time.


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Message 1146870 - Posted: 29 Aug 2011, 20:08:56 UTC
Last modified: 29 Aug 2011, 20:09:56 UTC

Also, here's some fascinating reading regarding your own country....

So called Neutrality in Europe

I'm not a supporter or sympathizer about fascist regimes, neither I'm stuck in a past. I look forward for the future by enjoying the present.


Also, this statement doesn't quite jell with your original post.....

...if statement is true, the IKEA boss shouldn't be a problem for you.
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Message 1146871 - Posted: 29 Aug 2011, 20:11:59 UTC

honestly i'm opposed to flat-packing and cheap breakfasts.
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Message 1146873 - Posted: 29 Aug 2011, 20:12:01 UTC - in response to Message 1146790.

His support or politics have never influenced my buying choices on IKEA.

I have never bought their rubbiish and never will. C**p is my definition of their products, but the great majority who do buy from them would disagree with me.

I've bought napkins and a shoddy LED light that lasted 6 months. P robably spend more money on gas getting to the IKEA store than I spent in it. Their products are clearly meant for low income/college students and are not intended to last more than a year or 2
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Message 1146895 - Posted: 29 Aug 2011, 20:29:09 UTC - in response to Message 1146862.

Snip
First concentration camps where created by the british during the Boer War, did humanity learned anything with it?




Quite Wrong! Earlier than that was the Spanish General Valeriano Weyler in Cuba 1895 & before that were the US with the Native Indians in 1868(rounding up the Indians & interned until moved to reservations under the "Indian Removal Act" of 1830).

Every nation on the planet has committed atrocities in their history & should we refuse to buy goods because of that, then I'm afraid we'd all be dead from starvation or freeze to death...

Standard Oil
IT&T
C&W

These three are well known for their dealings with Germany during WWII, but I'm pretty sure there were many more for the simple fact is that "Money Talks, Honesty Walks" & has been that way for a very long time.



You beat me to it this time Sirius....I concur.

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Message 1146904 - Posted: 29 Aug 2011, 20:40:29 UTC - in response to Message 1146870.

Dear Sirius B,
Mr Ikea does not present any problem for me, and to be quite honest before knowing is nazi past,I was not buying things at IKEA, simply because for me the quality is well, quite disapoiting, to put it in a polite way.

About atrocities, yes lot's of countries made them, Portugal did it in India, as Afonso de Albuquerque simply slaughter everyone in one battle, women and children included. He was the first Vice Roy of India, well at least in some cities during mid 1500's.

Also Ireland and irish people have donbe some atrocities whiile fighting for fredoom against the british Ivasion.

We can find a lot of examples in books, or at the internet. Almost every nation with a colonial past have done horrible things.

However, nevertheless I'm still against fascism or neo fascist ideals.

I also noticed that most of people got more disturbed when you make a critic against nazism or fascism, than when you make a critic agains comunism and it's variants.

Maybe is because the comunist model showed that he can't fly both economical or ina social way. While a fascist regime with great regreat it can survive for decades and provide some prosperity as long people play along with the system and follow the rules. Even so, all fascist regimes in europe where bloody ones, as the secret police had no mercy in everyone that had different ideas from the regime.

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Message 1146917 - Posted: 29 Aug 2011, 20:49:51 UTC
Last modified: 29 Aug 2011, 20:50:16 UTC

I think you'll find that its difficult for many to stand up & be counted when they & their families are starving, or do not have a roof over their heads...Prime example is 1926 - 1931 in Europe & the USA.

People don't care about politics in situations like that & as this is the politics thread, your are entitled to your opinion, but please ensure you get your facts right 1st.

Many people were aware of Communism & knew it wouldn't last...they were proven right.

As for Ireland & the Irish people, again you're wrong...in 1916, the Irish revolted against British Rule, built a small army, wore military uniforms & fought as soldiers...fair do's, we lost. Since then, it's been terrorists, so please don't label a people because of a few fanatics.

As individuals, we cannot change a thing, but gather a community of like minded individuals, then change is possible.
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Message 1146999 - Posted: 29 Aug 2011, 22:19:20 UTC - in response to Message 1146917.

As for Ireland & the Irish people, again you're wrong...in 1916, the Irish revolted against British Rule, built a small army, wore military uniforms & fought as soldiers...fair do's, we lost. Since then, it's been terrorists, so please don't label a people because of a few fanatics.

As individuals, we cannot change a thing, but gather a community of like minded individuals, then change is possible.


Sirius I don't label people because of fanatics, I haver very good Irish friends and I think that they are IRA,I alsohave very good muslim friends from Pakistan and I don't think that they are fanatics.

I notice in my life that sometimes conflict can't be avoid,but more important,i noticed that the common man just want to have a calm life for him and is family.

I also agree with you, that no man alone can't change the world, unless someone like Christ, he existed and in some way he changed the history has we know it.

Comunities must get stronger and united, power must be given to the comunity in how to deal to the more opeartional problems that mst of the times the centralized government don't have a clue about them.

I noticed that some statements of mine got missunderstood. I was aware that there was an uprising agains british occupation in 1916 and we can consider it as a classical war. I didn't mentioned because at that time it was irrelevant.

It's my believe that all over the world most people have good heartsm and they can be friendly,depending of the cultural barriers of course.

I really regreat one thing, is that fanatics usually are more protected than others when they make a crime. Somehow they have a invisible friend protecting them.

Terrorism is a hediond crime, a coward crime. And I'm sure that we agree that terrorism must be fought till the end.

I also think that you belive just like me, that a group of people with the same values, and the same awareness of the society can act as catalist to induce changes, first ones at small, but then they will became larger and larger, and soemhow society will grt more human,more just, more equal.

I end ny saying that Jesus was the first comunist in the world, when he said, Lover others like you love yourself.

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