Optimised app for ATI/AMD 3850 GPU processing.


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Message 1147728 - Posted: 31 Aug 2011, 23:48:59 UTC - in response to Message 1147722.

I see you are running a number of different projects. Could one of them have work that is marked ATI14 and you just got them mixed up? Your work you aborted shows it was running on your CPU as it should have. At this time, SETI does recognize ATI cards but does not have an app for them yet. As Joe said, the only way to use your GPU would be to install the Lunatic's app. With that and a modification from Raistmer you could run APs on your GPU though I'm not sure the 3xxx type could be used.
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Message 1148073 - Posted: 2 Sep 2011, 0:22:45 UTC - in response to Message 1147728.

As before, I thank everyone for their close attention to detail and precision when replying.

I'm now running Lunatics Unified Win32 v0.38
AstroPulse v5.05 (ATI) Option ... ap_5.06_x86_win_SSE_BROOK_NO_DOUBLE_r453

All SETI tasks are now showing "Local: setiathome enhanced 6.03"
WU progress is better than normal, I think.

CPU usage is incredibly low, which is what I want - two processes are concurrently running, named AK_v8b_win_SSE_p3.exe @ 5%~20% of a Gallatin set to 10% CPU * both HT cores running. Normally SETI CPU tasks overload the 10% per-HT core limit … a LOT.
GPU AVERAGE values, nothing else running, via GPU-Z 0.5.4 are:-
GPU/Fan/Load
38.6C/33%/28%
(I run VDDC at 0.974 and a modified fan speed profile, set using ATI Tray Tools v1.7.9.1557.)

Is this all magic? I've let things run for 23 hours unattended.

FWIW When I started other BOINC GPU projects ...
~ Lunatic kept going even through 90%+ GPU load required by the other projects
~ As usual with tasks from other BOINC GPU projects all hell broke loose with fans & temperatures.

dnolan said:-

c:\temp\clinfo\clinfo.exe ... Run ... "cmd" .. enter, [to] open a command prompt.
Yep.

You'll get a lot of info displayed to screen etc.
Nope, I get an error message as follows:-

Microsoft Visual C++ Debug Library [window name]
Debug Error!
Program: ... clinfo.exe
This application has requested the Runtime to terminate in an unusual way.
Please contact the application's support team for more information.
(Press retry to debug the application)

When I press retry I'm dumped back into the CMD window with no other info.

Perryjay said:-
a) ... you just got them mixed up? Yes - highly likely, on reflection as I've seen no further ATI GPU-only tasks from SETI for days now.
b) ... With that and a modification from Raistmer could run APs on your GPU ... OK, I'm game - what now?

Ray

PS ...
Granular description of my original issue:-

In Lunatics Unified Win32 v0.38 Setup
AstroPulse v5.05 (ATI) Option ... ap_5.06_x86_win_SSE_BROOK_NO_DOUBLE_r453 & will use extra CPU as well.
I interpreted the NO_DOUBLE as not using double precision during GPU tasks (the HD3850 is a double precision GPU) and that where double precision is required it will use the CPU instead. Which is not why I have just paid for a HD3850 (AGP) card to process SETI GPU tasks on this ancient PC.
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Message 1148188 - Posted: 2 Sep 2011, 12:11:18 UTC - in response to Message 1148073.


I interpreted the NO_DOUBLE as not using double precision during GPU tasks (the HD3850 is a double precision GPU) and that where double precision is required it will use the CPU instead. Which is not why I have just paid for a HD3850 (AGP) card to process SETI GPU tasks on this ancient PC.

As I already said, the difference was negligible small on HD4870/Q9450.
Do you really want to test DOUBLE-enabled build on your PC? After all, I doubt that HD3xxx, even with DP, was good investement for computing area, especially for SETI. To get truly GPU usage you needat least HD4xxx GPU (unfortunately).

BTW, AMD makes next step into their own software degradation and deprecates their own driver-level computing API, CAL. By using CAL there was at least some chance that someday someone would provide better app for older GPUs. W/o CAL thee is no chance at all - OpenCL doesn't support HD3xxx and earlier.
They dropped Brook+, now CAL... All this means IMHO that their software division greatly underfunded. And they just can't support anything than OpenCL now...

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Message 1148358 - Posted: 2 Sep 2011, 21:55:40 UTC - in response to Message 1148188.

I bought the HD3850 (512mb) because it has double precision that SETI requires for standard GPU tasks. That was my only reason for spending a LOT of money (and >4weeks' wait) on this card.
Also, I read somewhere on Tomshardware that it outperforms the previous card I had - a 1GB HD4670, single-precision - by about 5% in a summary of real-world situations.
If there is no pre-existing way to run SETI work on this card then I have misunderstood, and will contine non-SETI GPU work, probably using a card that costs 1/3rd of the price of the HD3850.

I doubt that HD3xxx, even with DP, was good investement ... especially for SETI.
It appears I have wasted everyone's time, here.
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Message 1148363 - Posted: 2 Sep 2011, 22:04:27 UTC - in response to Message 1148358.
Last modified: 2 Sep 2011, 22:07:53 UTC

I bought the HD3850 (512mb) because it has double precision that SETI requires for standard GPU tasks. That was my only reason for spending a LOT of money (and >4weeks' wait) on this card.
Also, I read somewhere on Tomshardware that it outperforms the previous card I had - a 1GB HD4670, single-precision - by about 5% in a summary of real-world situations.
If there is no pre-existing way to run SETI work on this card then I have misunderstood, and will contine non-SETI GPU work, probably using a card that costs 1/3rd of the price of the HD3850.
I doubt that HD3xxx, even with DP, was good investement ... especially for SETI.
It appears I have wasted everyone's time, here.

As you've now discovered, the statement in red is not true. Can you remember where you read it, or how you otherwise discovered that "fact"?

If we could discovered the source, other people might be better advised before they make your (expensive) mistake.

Edit - from what I've read here (though without any personal experience to back it up), it's the MilkyWay@home project which thrives on double-precision ATI GPUs.

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Message 1148372 - Posted: 2 Sep 2011, 22:27:54 UTC - in response to Message 1148363.
Last modified: 2 Sep 2011, 22:29:21 UTC

Thanks for the tip - I already run MW@H.
Finding the info you indicate is easy. SETI automatically checks the GPU and if it's unusable for processing SETI GPU tasks (precision/driver etc) it says so in the BOINC log SETI messages ... something like "No usable GPU found". FWIW the HD3850 passes the automatic SETI GPU check and all other projects recognise it, since no such messages appear in the log for other BOINC projects.
Maybe I have (again) got the wrong interpretation but that's what I've seen & understood prior to fitting the HD3850, specifically 3 other, very old cards AND a brand new HD4670 were all rejected because they were single-precision.
Aside:- this PC runs an AGP interface, althought I believe that the type of interface is irrelevant for GPU-intensive tasks.
HTH, Ray
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Message 1148378 - Posted: 2 Sep 2011, 22:54:18 UTC - in response to Message 1148372.

Thanks for the tip - I already run MW@H.
Finding the info you indicate is easy. SETI automatically checks the GPU and if it's unusable for processing SETI GPU tasks (precision/driver etc) it says so in the BOINC log SETI messages ... something like "No usable GPU found". FWIW the HD3850 passes the automatic SETI GPU check and all other projects recognise it, since no such messages appear in the log for other BOINC projects.
Maybe I have (again) got the wrong interpretation but that's what I've seen & understood prior to fitting the HD3850, specifically 3 other, very old cards AND a brand new HD4670 were all rejected because they were single-precision.
Aside:- this PC runs an AGP interface, althought I believe that the type of interface is irrelevant for GPU-intensive tasks.
HTH, Ray

Hmmm. Lots of stuff to go on there. I don't really propose to dig right to the bottom of it at this time on a Friday night, but off the top of my head:

The BOINC log is a log - of BOINC messages. I'm pretty sure the "No usable GPU found" message is a generic BOINC message - the matching "NVIDIA GPU 0: GeForce GT 420M..." in the log in front of me certainly is.

In my log there's a SETI@home message on the next line, but that has nothing to do with the GPU line.

For a GPU to be 'usable' by BOINC, it's BOINC that has to recognise it - and whether it does can depend on the version of BOINC in use, and the driver version installed to support the card.

I've never seen any message - and I've followed the BOINC alpha and beta testing programme pretty assiduously since GPU computing started, 2 1/2 years ago - which suggests that the precision of the card which determines whether BOINC reports that it is usable or not. It's a big leap from 'this card not usable' to 'a double precision card would be usable' - and I think there's a gap in the logic linking the two. And there's a second logical gap before you reach "the SETI project requires double precision."

As it happens, the SETI project itself doesn't support ATI GPU cards at all. Period. That may change in the future, but for the moment SETI (again, so far as the official project is concerned) remains a CPU and NVidia-GPU only project (and even the NVidia support is restricted to Windows). Certain volunteer third-party developers, most notably Raistmer, are gradually extending the range of platforms that can, with manual intervention, be used for SETI: but in order to determine the minimum/optimum hardware required, you need to refer to that developer's release notes, not rely on anything in the BOINC logs or written by the SETI@home staff themselves.

I think I'll leave it at that for tonight - the witching hour approacheth.

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Message 1148379 - Posted: 2 Sep 2011, 23:04:49 UTC - in response to Message 1148358.

I bought the HD3850 (512mb) because it has double precision that SETI requires for standard GPU tasks. That was my only reason for spending a LOT of money (and >4weeks' wait) on this card.
Also, I read somewhere on Tomshardware that it outperforms the previous card I had - a 1GB HD4670, single-precision - by about 5% in a summary of real-world situations.
If there is no pre-existing way to run SETI work on this card then I have misunderstood, and will contine non-SETI GPU work, probably using a card that costs 1/3rd of the price of the HD3850.
I doubt that HD3xxx, even with DP, was good investement ... especially for SETI.
It appears I have wasted everyone's time, here.


From where did you take info that SETI requires double precision on GPU ??? No released so far SETI GPU apps requires it. It can be used to some small benefit, but doesn't required at all...

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Message 1148383 - Posted: 2 Sep 2011, 23:10:03 UTC - in response to Message 1148378.
Last modified: 2 Sep 2011, 23:14:42 UTC

I'm pretty sure the "No usable GPU found" message is a generic BOINC message
I was very careful to say ...
BOINC log SETI messages


you need to refer to that developer's release notes

Versus project messages hmm ...

Anyway, I'm over all this. I don't want to waste anyone's time any further.

The HD3850 cannot process SETI GPU tasks.
Period.
End of story ~~~ unless SETI sends GPU tasks for the HD3850 on the "sensitive" PC to process, which it might do, automatically, with no input from me.

Thanks, again, everyone for your valued feedback, time and effort replying to my original post here.

Ray
I am now unsubscribing from this thread.
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Message 1148388 - Posted: 2 Sep 2011, 23:14:02 UTC - in response to Message 1148383.


The HD3850 cannot process SETI GPU tasks.
Period.
End of story.

Ray

Looks like you just like to make wrong assertions ... The HD3850 can process SETI AstroPulse tasks Please, don't make misleading statements.

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Message 1148391 - Posted: 2 Sep 2011, 23:20:27 UTC - in response to Message 1148383.

[quote]I'm pretty sure the "No usable GPU found" message is a generic BOINC message
I was very careful to say ...
BOINC log SETI messages

But you didn't quote one. This is what the whole thing looks like:

14-Aug-2011 18:28:50 [---] Starting BOINC client version 6.10.58 for windows_intelx86
14-Aug-2011 18:28:50 [---] log flags: file_xfer, sched_ops, task
14-Aug-2011 18:28:50 [---] Libraries: libcurl/7.19.7 OpenSSL/0.9.8l zlib/1.2.3
14-Aug-2011 18:28:50 [---] Running as a daemon
14-Aug-2011 18:28:50 [---] Data directory: C:\BOINCdata
14-Aug-2011 18:28:50 [---] Running under account boinc_master
14-Aug-2011 18:28:50 [---] Processor: 1 GenuineIntel Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 CPU 1.80GHz [Family 15 Model 2 Stepping 4]
14-Aug-2011 18:28:50 [---] Processor features: fpu vme de pse tsc msr pae mce cx8 apic sep mtrr pge mca cmov pat pse36 clflush dts acpi mmx fxsr sse sse2 ss htt tm
14-Aug-2011 18:28:50 [---] OS: Microsoft Windows 2000: Standard Server x86 Edition, Service Pack 4, (05.00.2195.00)
14-Aug-2011 18:28:50 [---] Memory: 511.49 MB physical, 1.22 GB virtual
14-Aug-2011 18:28:50 [---] Disk: 8.00 GB total, 3.26 GB free
14-Aug-2011 18:28:50 [---] Local time is UTC +1 hours
14-Aug-2011 18:28:50 [---] No usable GPUs found
14-Aug-2011 18:28:50 [SETI@home] Found app_info.xml; using anonymous platform

The "No usable GPUs found" is a generic [---] message.

The SETI@home / anonymous platform line below it refers to something completely different.

Likewise, it's bedtime. Goodnight all.

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Message 1148403 - Posted: 2 Sep 2011, 23:55:59 UTC - in response to Message 1148388.
Last modified: 2 Sep 2011, 23:56:36 UTC

The HD3850 can process SETI AstroPulse tasks
ummm does this mean that the original "ghost" aborted original non-Lunatics app SETI GPU tasks mentioned earlier WERE genuine, I wonder.
Please, don't make misleading statements.
Of course not. What good would that do anyone ... I'm here because something I tried didn't work as expected and need advice.
FWIW Personal insults are unwelcome on ANY forum irrespective of eminence.*
But you didn't quote one.
?
Every time SETI starts and a non-usable GPU is encountered SETI says so.
This is what the whole thing looks like:
Sorry, I get nothing like that.
Looks like you just like to make wrong assertions
*Please understand that when anyone makes an un-called-for judgement about my decision making ability etc then decides to makes it public without the courtesy to contact me, privately, beforehand I take deep offence.
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Message 1148412 - Posted: 3 Sep 2011, 0:25:37 UTC - in response to Message 1148403.

The HD3850 can process SETI AstroPulse tasks
ummm does this mean that the original "ghost" aborted original non-Lunatics app SETI GPU tasks mentioned earlier WERE genuine, I wonder.


Not possible. In order for SETI to send work to a host, it must be identified and make a work request. If you were getting messages about "No usable GPUs found" and were not using the Lunatics optimized app, then the AstroPulse workunit was intended for your CPU then.

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Message 1148420 - Posted: 3 Sep 2011, 0:56:00 UTC - in response to Message 1148412.
Last modified: 3 Sep 2011, 1:21:03 UTC

Thanks very much for your reply.

In order for SETI to send work to a host, it must be identified and make a work request.
OK, I think I understand that.
If you were getting messages about "No usable GPUs found"
No, I have never had these messages since the HD3850 card was fitted.
and were not using the Lunatics optimized app
OK, I was not using the Lunatics optimized app
.
Where does that leave me. please?

To anyone who may be interested ... here's a good read ...http://www.career.virginia.edu/media/attachment/Business-Etiquette-Essentials.pdf
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Message 1148428 - Posted: 3 Sep 2011, 1:06:08 UTC - in response to Message 1148420.

Ok, let me explain from the top.


SETI@Home does not have an official ATi GPU science application. In order to use an ATi GPU with SETI@Home, you must use a third-party application.


BOINC will only recognize GPUs as being usable after you've loaded a proper driver that supports OpenCL, CUDA and possibly DirectCompute 5.0 (part of Microsoft's DirectX 11 I believe).


If your driver does not have any of the above, BOINC will report that "No usable GPUs are found". This is BOINC's reporting on it's findings after detecting the devices in your system. This message does not come from any project (SETI@Home, Milkyway, etc.).


More than likely, after you installed the HD3850 into your system, you downloaded the most current drivers from ATi, which has been including the proper OpenCL drivers in the base package for about a year now. This means BOINC can correctly identify your GPU, and will ask for GPU work from projects, but if the project does not have an app that supports the hardware (as SETI does not have an app that supports ATi), you will never receive work scheduled for your GPU from SETI@Home.


The only way to get your HD3850 crunching is to use a third-party application, and even then the only one that will work for your GPU is the "hybrid" app that uses the CPU for most calculations and the GPU for a few calculations on AstroPulse-type workunits only.


Does that help any?

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Message 1148440 - Posted: 3 Sep 2011, 1:43:45 UTC - in response to Message 1148428.

The only way to get your HD3850 crunching is to use a third-party application, and even then the only one that will work for your GPU is the "hybrid" app that uses the CPU for most calculations and the GPU for a few calculations on AstroPulse-type workunits only


OK, I think I understand that hybrid means Lunatics.
Which I'm running very happily.
And that's why GPU temp/load/fan run very low when other GPU-intesive projects are disabled.

Very incisive.

And very polite, thanks.

Summary.
It seems that I am now happily running SETI WU's using my GPU via Lunatics (only works with AstroPulse, very little GPU load) whilst other heavily-GPU intensive BOINC projects complete really quickly.

Sweet.

If I've got any of this wrong, please PM me.

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Message 1148453 - Posted: 3 Sep 2011, 2:51:49 UTC - in response to Message 1148440.

The only way to get your HD3850 crunching is to use a third-party application, and even then the only one that will work for your GPU is the "hybrid" app that uses the CPU for most calculations and the GPU for a few calculations on AstroPulse-type workunits only


OK, I think I understand that hybrid means Lunatics.


Well actually, hybrid means that it uses both the CPU and the GPU, as opposed to other apps which only use the CPU to load the workunit into the GPU, then the GPU takes over all calculations, then the CPU takes the result and stores it on the hard drive to be returned to the server.

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Message 1170314 - Posted: 12 Nov 2011, 2:56:33 UTC - in response to Message 1148379.
Last modified: 12 Nov 2011, 3:33:48 UTC

I bought the HD3850 (512mb) because it has double precision that SETI requires for standard GPU tasks. That was my only reason for spending a LOT of money (and >4weeks' wait) on this card.
Also, I read somewhere on Tomshardware that it outperforms the previous card I had - a 1GB HD4670, single-precision - by about 5% in a summary of real-world situations.
If there is no pre-existing way to run SETI work on this card then I have misunderstood, and will contine non-SETI GPU work, probably using a card that costs 1/3rd of the price of the HD3850.
I doubt that HD3xxx, even with DP, was good investement ... especially for SETI.
It appears I have wasted everyone's time, here.


From where did you take info that SETI requires double precision on GPU ??? No released so far SETI GPU apps requires it. It can be used to some small benefit, but doesn't required at all...


Because that's the error message I got from SETI.
When I fitted a DP card the error message went away - DUH

See also:- http://www.unitedboinc.com/en/boinc-info/56-info/185-computation-credit
Specifically ... SETI@home uses almost all single-precision floating point math.

Translated ... if ONE math requires double precision then a single precision GPU won't EVER work!

Running Astropulse on a 3850 [DP] card works - very badly - see elsewhere.

Facts only. From my perspective.

Opinion (rare for me):- Clearly, with the passage of time documentation/software becomes outdated and if so it is the responsibility of the genius developer/author to post relevant updates wherever confusion occurs to us simpletons.
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Message 1170446 - Posted: 12 Nov 2011, 8:26:07 UTC - in response to Message 1170314.
Last modified: 12 Nov 2011, 8:27:05 UTC


Specifically ... SETI@home uses almost all single-precision floating point math.

Translated ... if ONE math requires double precision then a single precision GPU won't EVER work!

Don't forget that host with GPU is heterogeneous computation system, being equipped with GPU it still have CPU. And all current CPUs are DP-capable.
Pure single precision GPU app just means that all still required double precision computations are performed on CPU and not on GPU.
(In case of hybrid AP this way used).
Also, there is another way to make signle precision GPU work OK - to use double precision emulation on single precision hardware. It's possible and partially used in MB GPU implementations where both approaches are combined (to make use of CPU and to emulate increased precision via few single precision numbers).




Running Astropulse on a 3850 [DP] card works - very badly - see elsewhere.

What problems you met?

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Message 1170567 - Posted: 12 Nov 2011, 19:05:53 UTC - in response to Message 1170314.

From where did you take info that SETI requires double precision on GPU ??? No released so far SETI GPU apps requires it. It can be used to some small benefit, but doesn't required at all...

Because that's the error message I got from SETI.
When I fitted a DP card the error message went away - DUH

What is this error you got from Seti@Home exactly?


See also:- http://www.unitedboinc.com/en/boinc-info/56-info/185-computation-credit
Specifically ... SETI@home uses almost all single-precision floating point math.

Translated ... if ONE math requires double precision then a single precision GPU won't EVER work!

How do you get that translation from the previous statement? Also the area where they are referring to that is under the heading of "Why 'predicted time' can be wrong".

Also, I prefer http://boinc.berkeley.edu/wiki/Computation_credit. Which is maintained by the BOINC developers.


Running Astropulse on a 3850 [DP] card works - very badly - see elsewhere.

Facts only. From my perspective.

Opinion (rare for me):- Clearly, with the passage of time documentation/software becomes outdated and if so it is the responsibility of the genius developer/author to post relevant updates wherever confusion occurs to us simpletons.

It was clear during the development of the hybrid application, well over 2 years ago, that these card would not be chart toppers. AMD didn't seem to be very helpful on the support side either.

I'm not sure what research you did that pointed out this card being the one to get for Seti@Home. If you bought it around the time of your inital post I am surprised you could even find one.
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