Optimised app for ATI/AMD 3850 GPU processing.

Message boards : Number crunching : Optimised app for ATI/AMD 3850 GPU processing.

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Author	Message
Ray_GTI-R Send message Joined: 17 May 99 Posts: 56 Credit: 273,295 RAC: 0	Message 1145195 - Posted: 25 Aug 2011, 23:34:40 UTC
	New (!) HD3850 installed specifically to crunch SETI GPU tasks. (It processes Collatz & DNETC GPU tasks seamlessly, very quickly and runs very cool thanks to ATI Tray Tools ATT ver 1.7.9.1557.) Lunatics_Win32_v0.38_setup install refers to newer cards and also refers to support for older cards than HD4xxx WITHOUT double precision. (I'm confused about the inference that HD4xxx+ cards are double precision but that's another story so please ignore.) The HD3850 supports double precision ... which is why I bought it after much research. The question ... is there an optimised app for this older card that DOES support double precision? A direct link would be nice :-) Thanks, Ray ____________ The difference between 0 and 1 is greater than the difference between 1 and 1,000,000
	ID: 1145195 ·

Claggy Volunteer tester Send message Joined: 5 Jul 99 Posts: 3370 Credit: 25,962,705 RAC: 1,969	Message 1145203 - Posted: 26 Aug 2011, 0:00:48 UTC - in response to Message 1145195. Last modified: 26 Aug 2011, 0:01:04 UTC
	You need a HD4*** or newer card for OpenCL support, otherwise you're limited to the using old Hybrid AP app, Claggy
	ID: 1145203 ·

Ray_GTI-R Send message Joined: 17 May 99 Posts: 56 Credit: 273,295 RAC: 0	Message 1145212 - Posted: 26 Aug 2011, 0:23:25 UTC Last modified: 26 Aug 2011, 0:24:28 UTC
	Thanks for the reply but I don't understand it. The question ... is there an optimised app for this older card that DOES support double precision? A direct link would be nice :-) Thanks, Ray FWIW my confusion arises from the phrase "... you're limited to ... using [the] old Hybrid AP app". What EXACTLY does that mean? To clarify:- there are multiple & conflicting/mutually exclusive choices during install - which is why I'm asking the question, I guess. As I said ... Lunatics_Win32_v0.38_setup install refers to newer cards and also refers to support for older cards than HD4xxx WITHOUT double precision. ____________ The difference between 0 and 1 is greater than the difference between 1 and 1,000,000
	ID: 1145212 ·

Ray_GTI-R Send message Joined: 17 May 99 Posts: 56 Credit: 273,295 RAC: 0	Message 1145216 - Posted: 26 Aug 2011, 0:54:40 UTC - in response to Message 1145212.
	De-fogger ... The HD3850 supports double precision. Lunatics_Win32_v0.38_setup install refers to newer cards and refers to support for older cards than HD4xxx WITHOUT double precision. Question ... is there an optimised app for this older card that DOES support double precision? A direct link would be really, really nice :-) FWIW I've read every post on http://setiathome.berkeley.edu/forum_thread.php?id=55690 FWIW2 Imagine you are trying to do this without any prior knowledge of Lunatics and are trying to do this for the very first time ... err like me :-) ____________ The difference between 0 and 1 is greater than the difference between 1 and 1,000,000
	ID: 1145216 ·

dnolan Send message Joined: 30 Aug 01 Posts: 1223 Credit: 34,354,303 RAC: 6,053	Message 1145218 - Posted: 26 Aug 2011, 1:09:50 UTC
	Ray, I don't think it's necessary to be capable of double precision, but it is necessary to be capable of OpenCL and with a workgroup size of over 128, there is a link to this zip on the Lunatics site that can tell you if the card is capable of that. You can look here for more information on the latest Lunatics installer. From the readme: For cards without OpenCL support (from HD2xxxx on) use the 'hybrid' r453 Astropulse application. NB this is a combined CPU/GPU application and will only use the GPU for some of the calculations, while doing the rest on a CPU core. Minimum driver version Catalyst 9.x. HTH, -Dave ____________
	ID: 1145218 ·

Ray_GTI-R Send message Joined: 17 May 99 Posts: 56 Credit: 273,295 RAC: 0	Message 1145220 - Posted: 26 Aug 2011, 1:23:06 UTC - in response to Message 1145212.
	De-fogger ... The HD3850 supports double precision. Lunatics_Win32_v0.38_setup install refers to newer cards and also refers to support for older cards than HD4xxx WITHOUT double precision. The question ... is there an optimised app for this older card that DOES support double precision? A direct link would be nice :-) I truly appreciate the replies but none answer the question in a clear, simple way (sorry!). E.g., have you tried this zip using an HD3850 - yes. What result did you get - I got gobblydygook. You can look here for more information on the latest Lunatics installer. I did but thanks for that. I don't think it's necessary to be capable of double precision Are you sure? ____________ The difference between 0 and 1 is greater than the difference between 1 and 1,000,000
	ID: 1145220 ·

Ray_GTI-R Send message Joined: 17 May 99 Posts: 56 Credit: 273,295 RAC: 0	Message 1145228 - Posted: 26 Aug 2011, 1:41:31 UTC - in response to Message 1145220.
	... or else please, please keep it simple. Thanks, Ray NOT SIMPLE For cards without OpenCL support (from HD2xxxx on) use the 'hybrid' r453 Astropulse application. NB this is a combined CPU/GPU application and will only use the GPU for some of the calculations, while doing the rest on a CPU core. Minimum driver version Catalyst 9.x Eh? Why? Is it relevant to my question? How? Explain, please ... I really want to understand these erudite replies but the more I ask the deeper the fog. I don't need fog. De-fogger ... The HD3850 supports double precision. Lunatics_Win32_v0.38_setup install refers to newer cards and also refers to support for older cards than HD4xxx WITHOUT double precision. The question ... is there an optimised app for this older card that DOES support double precision? A direct link would be nice :-) ____________ The difference between 0 and 1 is greater than the difference between 1 and 1,000,000
	ID: 1145228 ·

Ray_GTI-R Send message Joined: 17 May 99 Posts: 56 Credit: 273,295 RAC: 0	Message 1145230 - Posted: 26 Aug 2011, 1:48:23 UTC - in response to Message 1145228. Last modified: 26 Aug 2011, 1:55:53 UTC
	Please understand that if the answer is no, then no is OK. If the answer is yes then I will stop bothering brainiac and instead I will seek advice elsewhere to avoid clogging the SETI forum server :-) Thanks, Ray ____________ The difference between 0 and 1 is greater than the difference between 1 and 1,000,000
	ID: 1145230 ·

Volunteer tester Send message Joined: 9 Apr 02 Posts: 11987 Credit: 18,196,800 RAC: 56,561	Message 1145239 - Posted: 26 Aug 2011, 2:46:40 UTC - in response to Message 1145230.
	I've been trying to find where you're reading this so that I may attempt to help interpret what they are trying to say, but I cannot find where you've read this. But I'll give it a shot anyway: Lunatics_Win32_v0.38_setup install refers to newer cards and also refers to support for older cards than HD4xxx WITHOUT double precision. (I'm confused about the inference that HD4xxx+ cards are double precision but that's another story so please ignore.) Once upon a time, before the ATi GPU app was included with the Lunatics installer, there was an app that specifically required double precision cards. The message here is trying to inform everyone that both types of cards are supported (i.g. single and double precision), which may be why you read the wrong inference from the statement about HD4xxx cards supporting double precision. The question ... is there an optimised app for this older card that DOES support double precision? A direct link would be nice :-) The Lunatics package includes support for all types of cards, single and double precision. The only cards not currently supported, regardless of single or double precision, are those with a workgroup size of 128 or smaller.
	ID: 1145239 ·

skildude Send message Joined: 4 Oct 00 Posts: 8944 Credit: 36,807,126 RAC: 60,674	Message 1145240 - Posted: 26 Aug 2011, 2:51:26 UTC - in response to Message 1145230.
	regardless of the double precision your card will not run the regular opditimized app for the AP WU's. You will only be able to run the hybrid app. I don't know what is so confusing about this. Please don't get stuck on the double precision. Your card uses an older generation of GPU. That GPU cannot use all the functions necessary to process an optimized app. You'll need at least a 4650(IIRC) or better to use the optimized app. Also the first double precision ATI card that I know of that works on Seti@home is the 4770. ____________ Proud member of TSWB. End terrorism by building a school
	ID: 1145240 ·

dnolan Send message Joined: 30 Aug 01 Posts: 1223 Credit: 34,354,303 RAC: 6,053	Message 1145261 - Posted: 26 Aug 2011, 3:56:00 UTC - in response to Message 1145220.
	...this zip using an HD3850 - yes. What result did you get - I got gobblydygook. Ray, I assume you're talking about the zip file I posted a link to. There aren't instructions, but what you want to do is go to a command prompt in windows (I assume that's what you're using), and run the program from the zip file (clinfo.exe - after it's been extracted). So if you download it to c:\temp\clinfo.zip and extract it there, depending on the program you use to extract it, you'll get c:\temp\clinfo\clinfo.exe Go to Run in XP or the search box in Win 7 and type "cmd" and enter, that should open a command prompt. You'll get a lot of info displayed to screen when you run it, but what you want to look for is a line that says: Max work group size: followed by something. If you don't feel like searching through the text, try clinfo \| find /I "work group" assumning you're in the dir you extracted clinfo to. Here's what it looks like on my system: c:\temp\clinfo>clinfo \| find /I "work group" Max work group size: 256 Max work group size: 256 Max work group size: 1024 The first 2 on my system are from the 2 GPUs I have installed, the third is from the CPU. Most likely on your system, you will only get one line, but if you get 2, I think the GPU(s) always come before the CPU... In any case, if you're not sure, just go by the lowest number you see, it should be over 128 (as mine are above). I hope that's simple enough for you, -Dave ____________
	ID: 1145261 ·

HAL9000 Volunteer tester Send message Joined: 11 Sep 99 Posts: 3279 Credit: 76,984,445 RAC: 78,349	Message 1145367 - Posted: 26 Aug 2011, 12:57:52 UTC - in response to Message 1145240. Last modified: 26 Aug 2011, 13:04:20 UTC
	regardless of the double precision your card will not run the regular opditimized app for the AP WU's. You will only be able to run the hybrid app. I don't know what is so confusing about this. Please don't get stuck on the double precision. Your card uses an older generation of GPU. That GPU cannot use all the functions necessary to process an optimized app. You'll need at least a 4650(IIRC) or better to use the optimized app. Also the first double precision ATI card that I know of that works on Seti@home is the 4770. I think what they need is this kind of answer: "No there is no DP application for S@H at this time. During the install it is pretty clear what you should do, but here is an image of the option you would select for your card." If I recall DP is not used in S@H application as it isn't required for the calculations that are being preformed. Edit: If you want to use the OpenCL applications you should see the Supported hardware list ____________ SETI@home classic workunits: 93,865 CPU time: 863,447 hours Join the BP6/VP6 User Group today!
	ID: 1145367 ·

Raistmer Volunteer developer Volunteer tester Send message Joined: 16 Jun 01 Posts: 2547 Credit: 25,756,633 RAC: 38,731	Message 1145410 - Posted: 26 Aug 2011, 15:44:35 UTC
	You should use Brook-based application, also known as Hybrid AP. There was Double precision version before, but I don't maintain that build now - only singl kernel required DP and performance gain was not too big.
	ID: 1145410 ·

skildude Send message Joined: 4 Oct 00 Posts: 8944 Credit: 36,807,126 RAC: 60,674	Message 1145427 - Posted: 26 Aug 2011, 16:12:26 UTC - in response to Message 1145410. Last modified: 26 Aug 2011, 16:12:43 UTC
	Just so you know Ray. Raistmer developed the apps. He's currently our Guru for ATI apps. You can take his word as golden ____________ Proud member of TSWB. End terrorism by building a school
	ID: 1145427 ·

Ray_GTI-R Send message Joined: 17 May 99 Posts: 56 Credit: 273,295 RAC: 0	Message 1147290 - Posted: 30 Aug 2011, 23:13:12 UTC
	Thanks all. I've received a few GPU tasks automatically from SETI running under non-optimised app (who knows?) - will post here again when I have more data. (SETI servers are currently up & down like a fiddlers' elbow.) ____________ The difference between 0 and 1 is greater than the difference between 1 and 1,000,000
	ID: 1147290 ·

skildude Send message Joined: 4 Oct 00 Posts: 8944 Credit: 36,807,126 RAC: 60,674	Message 1147314 - Posted: 31 Aug 2011, 1:14:49 UTC - in response to Message 1147290.
	I see nothing but aborted work from you. there are no NON optimized ATI apps for seti. You won't be able to run an ATI card on seti without the lunatics app or some app you've made on your own. ____________ Proud member of TSWB. End terrorism by building a school
	ID: 1147314 ·

Ray_GTI-R Send message Joined: 17 May 99 Posts: 56 Credit: 273,295 RAC: 0	Message 1147320 - Posted: 31 Aug 2011, 1:29:55 UTC Last modified: 31 Aug 2011, 1:55:51 UTC
	Hi. Yes. a) I aborted those few tasks because they were sent (automatically? by SETI?) to a "sensitive" PC. I have tried to get more SETI GPU tasks on a less "sensitive" PC but no joy yet thanks to the regular SETI outage. b) I promise I'm not running an optimise app because ... ummm see my original post :o) c) nor an app of my own because ... I wouldn't know how to begin. PS ... I see nothing but aborted work from you ... which proves my point a) above? That is ... How could I possibly have aborted any running SETI GPU work that has been sent/received/started to process & then abort if it wasn't ermmm ... sent, received, processing started? Or maybe ... there's something out there ~ ~ ~ FWIW if I remember correctly, there were three SETI GPU taks received, each was about 116 hours duration but that's not important right now. ____________ The difference between 0 and 1 is greater than the difference between 1 and 1,000,000
	ID: 1147320 ·

Josef W. Segur Volunteer developer Volunteer tester Send message Joined: 30 Oct 99 Posts: 3932 Credit: 934,327 RAC: 15	Message 1147359 - Posted: 31 Aug 2011, 4:37:17 UTC - in response to Message 1147320.
	Hi. Yes. a) I aborted those few tasks because they were sent (automatically? by SETI?) to a "sensitive" PC. I have tried to get more SETI GPU tasks on a less "sensitive" PC but no joy yet thanks to the regular SETI outage. b) I promise I'm not running an optimise app because ... ummm see my original post :o) c) nor an app of my own because ... I wouldn't know how to begin. PS ... I see nothing but aborted work from you ... which proves my point a) above? That is ... How could I possibly have aborted any running SETI GPU work that has been sent/received/started to process & then abort if it wasn't ermmm ... sent, received, processing started? Or maybe ... there's something out there ~ ~ ~ FWIW if I remember correctly, there were three SETI GPU taks received, each was about 116 hours duration but that's not important right now. You aborted 4 Astropulse tasks which had started running on your Computer 5708458. But Astropulse isn't GPU work, it can be sent to be processed by either CPU or GPU. Those had started running on your CPU, and the 116 hour estimate is about the way they look until BOINC learns that your CPU can actually process them much faster than that. You call it a "sensitive" host, so you may want to assign it to a different venue than your other hosts and set the project preferences for that venue to not send Astropulse work. There are many preferences you can use to control what kind of work the computer gets and how much, let us know what you're trying to set up and we'll be glad to offer advice. The project has stock CPU applications for both SETI@home Enhanced work and Astropulse work, plus nVidia CUDA applications for SETI@home Enhanced. Only those combinations will get tasks unless you choose to run Anonymous Platform either doing it yourself or using an installer as provided by we Lunatics. With that mechanism you could get either kind of task simply by setting up an app_info.xml which indicated you could do the work. Of course if you didn't actually do the work correctly BOINC would stop sending you more after awhile. Joe
	ID: 1147359 ·

Ray_GTI-R Send message Joined: 17 May 99 Posts: 56 Credit: 273,295 RAC: 0	Message 1147722 - Posted: 31 Aug 2011, 23:32:05 UTC - in response to Message 1147359. Last modified: 31 Aug 2011, 23:32:35 UTC
	WOW! Thanks so much. I understood all that :-) and am truly impressed with the level of detail in the reply and the care in explaining the issue in the clear. I will try out a non-sensitive PC as advised. FWIW I'm confused about two things:- first, the (4, thanks) SETI tasks I thought were GPU tasks since I'm pretty sure they showed as ...ati14... and second that SETI recognises a usable GPU on that PC. Maybe I misunderstood both indicators? FWIW2 I haven't received any similar "GPU" tasks automatically from SETI since my last post so I guess I must have misunderstood. Thanks very much, again. ____________ The difference between 0 and 1 is greater than the difference between 1 and 1,000,000
	ID: 1147722 ·

Claggy Volunteer tester Send message Joined: 5 Jul 99 Posts: 3370 Credit: 25,962,705 RAC: 1,969	Message 1147727 - Posted: 31 Aug 2011, 23:48:07 UTC - in response to Message 1147722.
	WOW! Thanks so much. I understood all that :-) and am truly impressed with the level of detail in the reply and the care in explaining the issue in the clear. I will try out a non-sensitive PC as advised. FWIW I'm confused about two things:- first, the (4, thanks) SETI tasks I thought were GPU tasks since I'm pretty sure they showed as ...ati14... and second that SETI recognises a usable GPU on that PC. Maybe I misunderstood both indicators? FWIW2 I haven't received any similar "GPU" tasks automatically from SETI since my last post so I guess I must have misunderstood. Thanks very much, again. You're mixing Boinc and Seti up, it's Boinc that recognises Useable GPUs, Seti is just a project that uses Boinc, Seti doesn't have any Stock ATI apps, so you can't have had any ATI tasks here, (there is an old Hybid AP app at Seti Beta, but you're not attached to that project) Claggy
	ID: 1147727 ·

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Message boards : Number crunching : Optimised app for ATI/AMD 3850 GPU processing.