The Owl in Daylight (Aug 24 2011)


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Amauri
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Message 1145107 - Posted: 25 Aug 2011, 19:58:00 UTC - in response to Message 1145080.


Thanks for trying Mat but still no joy here.

T.A.

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Message 1145132 - Posted: 25 Aug 2011, 20:51:09 UTC

Matt, thanks for your efforts to clean up the situation. I'm sad you'll be away for some long time. But enjoy your stay!

I never had problems uploading WUs in the past few days!
Just downloading didn't (and still doesn't) work, as there were (are) no WUs available.

Rolf

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Message 1145140 - Posted: 25 Aug 2011, 21:00:49 UTC - in response to Message 1145132.

Matt, thanks for your efforts to clean up the situation. I'm sad you'll be away for some long time. But enjoy your stay!

I never had problems uploading WUs in the past few days!
Just downloading didn't (and still doesn't) work, as there were (are) no WUs available.

Rolf


You should start getting work soon. WU production is back up, but of course we are all drained of work and will be fighting as it's split ;)
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Message 1145152 - Posted: 25 Aug 2011, 21:43:18 UTC - in response to Message 1145140.

Well done guys on getting everything back in working order.
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Message 1145173 - Posted: 25 Aug 2011, 22:34:07 UTC - in response to Message 1145152.

Well done guys on getting everything back in working order.


Well, not everything. Some of us still cannot connect for uploads of completed tasks.
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Plus SETI Classic = 21,082 WUs

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Message 1145184 - Posted: 25 Aug 2011, 23:02:33 UTC - in response to Message 1145173.

Well done guys on getting everything back in working order.


Well, not everything. Some of us still cannot connect for uploads of completed tasks.


Personally, I just managed to upload my completed units during the last three hours using a proxy server.
Doing so hadn't worked for me in the past, but in another thread somone suggested the list of servers at http://www.xroxy.com/
I tried a number of the http servers and found one in Canada and one in the UK that worked.
It was a pain, and I do hope that the Router gets fixed in due course, but at least I managed to upload my completed units, especially the ones due to expire tomorrow.


Martin.
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Message 1145189 - Posted: 25 Aug 2011, 23:19:00 UTC - in response to Message 1145184.

Wish you the best and lots of fun on your journey, Matt.


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Message 1145197 - Posted: 25 Aug 2011, 23:44:37 UTC - in response to Message 1145066.

Despite better judgement (being late in the week, and I'm the only computer geek at the lab today and nobody else will be in until Monday) I did just reboot the router. Maybe that'll fix some of y'alls connections.

- Matt


Thanks!

But, a pity, it didn't helped.. - at least not for my machine. Still no connection possible.


- Best regards! - Sutaru Tsureku, team seti.international founder. - Optimize your PC for higher RAC. - SETI@home needs your help. -
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Message 1145217 - Posted: 26 Aug 2011, 1:07:27 UTC

Thanks for keeping us up to date and all your work on getting work units splitting again, hopefully I'll be able to pull a few down before too long.

I haven't been checking in the the forum here for a while. Guess that shows how well things have been running. I had been checking in quite a bit with all the work that was going on last year and early this year but things had been running so well and I haven't run out of work units for a long time. Then when I see my laptop say no no running tasks I had to come see what was going on. Glad it wasn't too bad a problem.

Good luck on your tour, and have fun.

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Message 1145363 - Posted: 26 Aug 2011, 12:22:15 UTC - in response to Message 1144668.
Last modified: 26 Aug 2011, 12:24:53 UTC

... This unexpectedly caused three problems: 1. the drive swap confused the RAID and we couldn't easily get it out of degraded state, 2. this somehow in turn corrupted the xfs filesystem on said RAID, ... and 3. other systems couldn't mount this filesystem anymore, even after it seemed to be in a stable enough state.

... after the dust settled it was easy to un-degrade the RAID (though once again I'm annoyed by the wonky/unpredictable nature of linux software RAID). ... xfs-corrupted filesystem, made a fresh new reformatted partition, and just started copying everything back. ...

For the unexpected 'funkieness', my first suspicion would be XFS corruption of some sort. That would then have knock-on effects to lock up the mounts and hold the drives as "in use" still (and lock up NFS?)...

Linux RAID is used very widely, so any problems there or any unaccounted for fail scenarios will be "very interesting" and quickly fixed... Any time for any debug notes?


I've not seen any problems on Linux RAID but then I'm not using XFS and I'd guess there are no other systems with the continuous extreme load that s@h sees!

(One nasty hardware problem I see occasionally is when you get a controller crash that then takes out or corrupts multiple drives beyond what your RAID allows for... :-( )


All a very good test!

And good luck for your tour,

Happy crunchin',
Martin
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Message 1145374 - Posted: 26 Aug 2011, 13:19:50 UTC - in response to Message 1145066.

Despite better judgement (being late in the week, and I'm the only computer geek at the lab today and nobody else will be in until Monday) I did just reboot the router. Maybe that'll fix some of y'alls connections.

- Matt

It was no joy here, but thanks for giving it a go. Good luck with everything once you take off for a while. We will be sure to pester everyone else in your absence. :)
____________
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Message 1145463 - Posted: 26 Aug 2011, 17:43:15 UTC

I cannot upload WUs since tuesday!

I'm crunching SETI WUs since years and got more credit than 97.65% of SETI users according to BOINCStats - but I'm really getting angry about this project!

I've never seen a project that large, with such many outages and failures than SEIT@home!

I spend about 80 Euros a year to SETI only by letting my CPU not sleep but search for ET - but this is not honoured in any way!

RAID fails, and we do not hear any details about this for days. Router fails, and we get informed about this a month later. Nearly every week some important part of your buggy hardware fails, but most time there's not even a little notice aboute that in the forum - just when one of the admins wakes up and gets into the mood to write a message to the users ...

Nearly every week I sit here and try to find out why SETI does not work, AGAIN. My time is not for free!

I get the impression those people at SETI forget who does all the work on the WU for them, spending millions of dollars a year only by paying for electrical power to let the CPUs run! 20 years ago it did make no difference if your CPU was running at a level of 5% or 95%, as it always ran at full speed, but nowadays each core can go to sleep when there's nothing to do, and you can believe this: each thread that's running a BOINC WU pushes up my power consumption by about 20 watts, that's much money a year!!! No word about this! No "thank you for donation" - the only "thank you" we most times can hear are all the outages and failures in connecting to SETI!

SETIs "technical status" board keeps quiet for over a month, despite of outages happening nearly each week - besides the planned weekly outage -, but nobody seems to think it could be worth a word of comment, if something happens.

It's fine for him that Matt will leave the campus for half a year to travel all over america. BUT THIS DOES NOT BE OF MUCH INTEREST TO THE ONES THAT WANT TO GET AND SEND WUs!!! Go up and get those things running!

Download rates are a shame! I get rosetta@home or einstein@home WUs at a rate of 300-400k/s, but SEIT@home WUs snail in here at 3-4k/s!! AND: SETI WUs are MUCH MUCH smaller than any other WU I ever saw!

Current state of SETI@home is a big shit! WE OUTESIDE THE CAMPUS are the ones that pay millions of dollars for SETI@home each year, so why is it even too much for you admins and dullos at the campus to keep us informed twice a week at least about anything that happens?!


GO AND GET THIS PROJECT WORKING!


IF ET's SPACESHIP WOULD BE THAT BUGGY THE SETI HARDWARE IS, HE NEVER WILL EVEN HAVE A LIFT-OFF. IF HE REALLY COMES TO VISIT US, WE AT ALL COSTS SHOULD AVOID TO SHOW HIM SETI! HE OTHERWISE WILL SHAKE HIS HEAD FOR SORROW, WIPE HIS TEARS FROM HIS FACE AND CLIMB BACK INTO ITS UFO TO START BACK TO HIS OWN PLANET, DEEPLY DISAPPOINTED NOT HAVING FOUND INTELLIGENT LIFE ON OUR PLANET!

VERY POOR PERFORMANCE, SETI, VERY POOR!!! :-(((

____________

chris
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Message 1145464 - Posted: 26 Aug 2011, 17:43:16 UTC

I cannot upload WUs since tuesday!

I'm crunching SETI WUs since years and got more credit than 97.65% of SETI users according to BOINCStats - but I'm really getting angry about this project!

I've never seen a project that large, with such many outages and failures than SEIT@home!

I spend about 80 Euros a year to SETI only by letting my CPU not sleep but search for ET - but this is not honoured in any way!

RAID fails, and we do not hear any details about this for days. Router fails, and we get informed about this a month later. Nearly every week some important part of your buggy hardware fails, but most time there's not even a little notice aboute that in the forum - just when one of the admins wakes up and gets into the mood to write a message to the users ...

Nearly every week I sit here and try to find out why SETI does not work, AGAIN. My time is not for free!

I get the impression those people at SETI forget who does all the work on the WU for them, spending millions of dollars a year only by paying for electrical power to let the CPUs run! 20 years ago it did make no difference if your CPU was running at a level of 5% or 95%, as it always ran at full speed, but nowadays each core can go to sleep when there's nothing to do, and you can believe this: each thread that's running a BOINC WU pushes up my power consumption by about 20 watts, that's much money a year!!! No word about this! No "thank you for donation" - the only "thank you" we most times can hear are all the outages and failures in connecting to SETI!

SETIs "technical status" board keeps quiet for over a month, despite of outages happening nearly each week - besides the planned weekly outage -, but nobody seems to think it could be worth a word of comment, if something happens.

It's fine for him that Matt will leave the campus for half a year to travel all over america. BUT THIS DOES NOT BE OF MUCH INTEREST TO THE ONES THAT WANT TO GET AND SEND WUs!!! Go up and get those things running!

Download rates are a shame! I get rosetta@home or einstein@home WUs at a rate of 300-400k/s, but SEIT@home WUs snail in here at 3-4k/s!! AND: SETI WUs are MUCH MUCH smaller than any other WU I ever saw!

Current state of SETI@home is a big shit! WE OUTESIDE THE CAMPUS are the ones that pay millions of dollars for SETI@home each year, so why is it even too much for you admins and dullos at the campus to keep us informed twice a week at least about anything that happens?!


GO AND GET THIS PROJECT WORKING!


IF ET's SPACESHIP WOULD BE THAT BUGGY THE SETI HARDWARE IS, HE NEVER WILL EVEN HAVE A LIFT-OFF. IF HE REALLY COMES TO VISIT US, WE AT ALL COSTS SHOULD AVOID TO SHOW HIM SETI! HE OTHERWISE WILL SHAKE HIS HEAD FOR SORROW, WIPE HIS TEARS FROM HIS FACE AND CLIMB BACK INTO ITS UFO TO START BACK TO HIS OWN PLANET, DEEPLY DISAPPOINTED NOT HAVING FOUND INTELLIGENT LIFE ON OUR PLANET!

VERY POOR PERFORMANCE, SETI, VERY POOR!!! :-(((

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Message 1145477 - Posted: 26 Aug 2011, 18:13:25 UTC - in response to Message 1145463.

Chris!
Really hard words. If you really feel that unhappy with SETI project, why just don't leave it? You will save money and mental energy.

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Message 1145480 - Posted: 26 Aug 2011, 18:19:54 UTC - in response to Message 1145463.

Seti might be the biggest project, but it's also one of the most underfunded projects, So how about you donate some money to it?, $10 per user would increase their budget hugely.

Claggy

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Message 1145484 - Posted: 26 Aug 2011, 18:30:04 UTC - in response to Message 1145463.

You are, of course, entitled to voice your frustration, and I'm sure you're just stating what some others must be thinking as well.

However, I do have a couple comments about your grips:

I've never seen a project that large, with such many outages and failures than SEIT@home!


How many of those large projects have you seen with the funding and staffing of SETI@Home? Large projects usually have large budgets and adequate staffing to help meet user expectation.

I spend about 80 Euros a year to SETI only by letting my CPU not sleep but search for ET - but this is not honoured in any way!


If you expect that the project runs perfectly or always keep you informed as a way to honor your money you've spent on electricity, I think you had too high of an expectation from the start.

Nearly every week I sit here and try to find out why SETI does not work, AGAIN. My time is not for free!


If your time is not for free, it is up to you to make sure you're doing something productive. None of the Project Administrator's time is for free either, and a few of them are supposed to be "part time", yet they put in 50 hours a week. Unfortunately, more time is spend toward writing grants hoping to get funding than it actually put toward managing the project.

I get the impression those people at SETI forget who does all the work on the WU for them, spending millions of dollars a year only by paying for electrical power to let the CPUs run! ... No word about this! No "thank you for donation" - the only "thank you" we most times can hear are all the outages and failures in connecting to SETI!


I really don't understand why you'd say any of this, except that you're super frustrated, and frustrated people are often selfish and only think about their end of the deal (no offense).

I know for a fact that the Project Administrators are very thankful for every participant that joins the project, and they feel the same frustrations the end users feel, and possibly moreso.

It's fine for him that Matt will leave the campus for half a year to travel all over america. BUT THIS DOES NOT BE OF MUCH INTEREST TO THE ONES THAT WANT TO GET AND SEND WUs!!! Go up and get those things running!


Actually, he's going to Europe. Why not go see him perform? Then you can tell him how you feel in person. Just leave the gun at home; Matt has an allergic reaction to anyone that wants to cause him physical pain. ;-D



Honestly though, I don't know why anyone would stay around for something that frustrates them so. The obvious answer is that you care about the project, and that's a good thing. Sometimes we need to take a step back though, and try to look at the bigger picture other than just our own.

The users are very important for this project, but so are the Administrators. Without them putting in all the extra time they do (even if you don't see it or aren't notified of their extra time), the project would simply cease to exist and you'd have no way to participate in the Greatest Search of All Time(tm).

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Message 1145498 - Posted: 26 Aug 2011, 18:53:32 UTC - in response to Message 1145463.

Simple solution, Chris. Quit doing seti@home.

You may rank at 97.65% compared to other crunchers, but that's only because so many accounts have done next to nothing at all, most likely abandoned. Compared to how much work has actually been done, your 658,754 credits have only contributed .00058% to the entire seti@home project. I rank at 99.71% and have contributed .0097% to the project - seven times more than you.

You've been a member for eleven years, and "only" have 658,754 credits? Not much dedication if you ask me. I've racked up over 4.6 million and I've only been at it a year longer than you. But then, I volunteer to leave my computers running 24/7/365. About the only time they're not crunching work units is when they're off, or I need the cpu/gpu for other tasks.

And, I consume a heck of a lot more than 20 watts on my number crunching. I have two machines running right now - one is a Core2duo 3ghz (E8400) which consumes 65 watts, the other a Core2quad 3ghz (Q9650) which consumes 120 watts. I also have on the quad machine an NVidia gpu crunching cuda WU's at the same rate as all four cores of the CPU, consuming probably another 100+ watts. I bet my 300+ watts means I've spent a lot more on electricity than you have. Heck, with all these processors running 100% all time, I also have to have ventilation fans running 100% all the time to pull all the heat they generate out of the room.

Also, seti@home isn't as BIG a project as you may think it is. It doesn't get millions of dollars every year from government grants. I've never delved into the details but I have a feeling a lot of seti@home is supported by volunteers and charitable contributions. I believe I've seen mention of the hardware being donations. Perhaps, in order to make sure seti@home will never have any downtime and will provide all the work units you desire, you could send them a few hundred thousand dollars so they can buy more equipment and hire some more staff?

Oh, and in my 12+ years I've never crunched anything other than seti WU's, even when the seti project was down for extended periods.

Finally, my comparing myself to you is not intended to be a bragging contest, but to show how little you've really contributed compared to how big your gripe is.

Seti@home is science, and science is not a competition. I takes as long as it takes.

As for thanks, I get all the thanks I need knowing in my mind and heart that I've made a tiny contribution to a real scientific endeavor that someday could have a global impact on how we puny humans look at ourselves as a whole. I contribute to this project because I feel SETI in general is important to our species and it's societies, and to be able to actually help is just plain cool!!

Yes, I do get bummed when I can't get any work units. But how does it hurt me? It doesn't, really.

Brian
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Message 1145502 - Posted: 26 Aug 2011, 19:10:55 UTC - in response to Message 1144709.

Today I looked at my pending list and out of 44 tasks 9 were inconclusive. That is 20% which increased usage by 10%. That is a lot of bandwidth being wasted. When I looked at my wingmen, they mostly had nvidea gpus and most were spewing out vast numbers of invalid results. Most likely they were not even aware of what they were doing, since for most people Seti is a set it and forget it kind of thing.
Possibly an email from the project would help these people improve their RAC and reduce the load on the router that their failing gpus are causing.
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Message 1145509 - Posted: 26 Aug 2011, 19:42:06 UTC

Well, I have more credit than 98.36% of all users, and I think S@H is great.

And I have never seen a distributed computing project as large as S@H. Better or worse.

Anyway, off you go, and thanks for the extra WUs the rest of us will get.
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Message 1145516 - Posted: 26 Aug 2011, 20:09:50 UTC
Last modified: 26 Aug 2011, 20:10:55 UTC

When I saw the message on the site that there were issues making WU's I thought "Oh well, my machine has other stuff to do" but it was getting lonely for SETI. Late yesterday, started getting more WU's, so machine is no longer lonely. I do have one question-why are the downloads and uploads so slow? I have a cable modem connection, and all my other projects are giving me transmission speeds at least 80 kbps, while SETI is lucky to go at 5. Something in the connection between there and here? No complaint-just wondering.(This has been happening for a few weeks)
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