'What-if' an advanced ET were to notice Earth?...


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OzzFan
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Message 1156422 - Posted: 26 Sep 2011, 21:00:18 UTC - in response to Message 1156415.

If you accept only what can be reproduced under controlled conditions theories like evolution and the big bang theory must be false?


There's a reason why they're still classified as theories and not submitted as fact. At least with theories like evolution and the big bang, we have observed many things that have brought us to this conclusion. These observations can be seen by anyone with the right tools and is not limited to being in the right place at the right time.

If you exclude all witnesses as unreliable we may as well stop having history classes in school or prosecuting crimes that were not caught on video.


I never said to exclude all witnesses. I simply said they are unreliable and no way to base conclusions off of.

Wait, videos are all fake?


Some are. Those that are not are often grainy and of questionable quality to the point that the object(s) on camera can really be anything. Every time I've seen a video held to critical scrutiny, they simply don't hold up.

I would like to see at least some effort on the part of the scientific community to help UFO hunters obtain more useful data. Most UFO hunters are regular people with cameras. If there has been any effort to help UFO hunters develop equipment that will provide better or more useful data I am not aware of it but I applaud their efforts. My theory is that some of these unidentified objects are alien in origin. I will collect data as I am able and keep trying to prove that theory.


Scientific instruments are developed out of need. When Galileo created the first telescope, he did so out of need. His invention became useful to others who built upon his idea to make it better.

If other scientists actually felt there was merit in the claims, they would be clamoring to help be the one to discover another race. The mere fact that no one is knocking down doors in this age old area of interest should speak volumes of the credibility of the claims.

If you have a different theory I invite you to do the same.


My only conclusion is that based upon the lack of credible evidence, I see no reason to believe aliens have visited us, or are currently visiting us. I would like to find out whether they even exist or not by running SETI@Home as the only plausible way I can contribute to the scientific process of discovery.

William
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Message 1156472 - Posted: 27 Sep 2011, 0:09:04 UTC
Last modified: 27 Sep 2011, 0:13:29 UTC

I think Hans Lippershey would disagree with you about Galileo inventing the telescope considering he offered the invention to the military in 1608 and was the first to seek a patent. Galileo did make considerable improvements to the device and was the first to use it to explore the heavens in 1609. What need did Galileo have other than to satisfy his curiosity or to explore the unknown, to learn? In general you are correct however, we do not put resources into developing technology we do not need and the most useful will be the most used.
I do submit my belief that there are aliens coming to earth as theory and it is based on many observations that anyone can make. For example 6000 years of recording the same style of object flying through the air. Anyone with the equipment can go to any of these caves all over the world and carbon date them and compare the images. You seem to believe witness reports are not sufficient to give credibility to physical evidence that is not conclusive. I on the other hand consider the same evidence to give credibility to the witness statements.
As far as mainstream science knocking down doors to help my first thought is of Columbus but I think a better example is Wesley H. Ketchum M.D. of Hopkinsville Kentucky, USA. in the early 20th century.
Dr. Ketchum was a prominent doctor in Kentucky who had gained the reputation as a miracle worker. He had repeatedly diagnosed and treated cases that had baffled the scientific community. He did this not once or twice but time and time again, all verifiable through his patients and records. In July of 1910 Dr. Ketchum was asked to submit a paper for the September meeting of the American Association for Clinical Research to be held in Boston. In this paper Dr. Ketchum explained that he was able to diagnose and treat these baffling cases by consulting with a psychic named Edgar Cayce and it was actually Cayce who made the diagnosis and determined treatment which was then administered by Dr. Ketchum. Dr. Ketchum’s astounding record of success suddenly meant nothing. Soon after his paper became public the majority of doctors in Christian County Kentucky went to the court house in Hopkinsville and demanded Dr. Ketchum’s license to practice medicine be revoked. Dr. Ketchum’s results were beyond question and he was able to recreate those results for anyone’s scrutiny. Yet Dr. Ketchum and Cayce and their acomplishments are ignored by mainstream science. I consider this not a failing in Dr. Ketchum or Cayce but rather a failing in us. When confronted with something not possible by our understanding we discount it rather than working to expand our understanding to explain it. Dr. Ketchum repeatedly provided verifiable results and rather than beating down his door to help him, they shunned him.

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Message 1156480 - Posted: 27 Sep 2011, 0:52:34 UTC

Dr Ketchum and Edgar Cayce does make for very interesting reading.
Edgar Cayce's predictions tended to flounder post 1945.

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Message 1156509 - Posted: 27 Sep 2011, 3:07:26 UTC - in response to Message 1156472.
Last modified: 27 Sep 2011, 3:29:58 UTC

I think Hans Lippershey would disagree with you about Galileo inventing the telescope considering he offered the invention to the military in 1608 and was the first to seek a patent.


Mea culpa.

I do submit my belief that there are aliens coming to earth as theory and it is based on many observations that anyone can make. For example 6000 years of recording the same style of object flying through the air. Anyone with the equipment can go to any of these caves all over the world and carbon date them and compare the images.


People have taken the same data and come to different conclusions. Where does it benefit them to simply deny all available evidence as proof of aliens? If there's a more logical explanation, then that is likely the most accurate one.

You seem to believe witness reports are not sufficient to give credibility to physical evidence that is not conclusive. I on the other hand consider the same evidence to give credibility to the witness statements.


Which is all the more reason why your conclusions will always remain skeptical and fail peer review. It is a given that primitive man couldn't explain the world around him, but that doesn't mean what he saw had to be other-worldly. Primitive man also thought that an eclipse of the sun was brought about by an evil demon swallowing the Sun. They thought if they jeered enough at this evil being, that it would leave. When the moon eventually passed, as it would naturally do, primitive man would believe that it actually had an effect on the outcome. They would then write down their experience, and likely depict the moon more as a beast than simply a circular object.

As far as mainstream science knocking down doors to help my first thought is of Columbus


That's because Columbus was trying to seek funding for a trip around a flat world as believed by the many uneducated masses during the time... but many mathematicians hundreds of years prior knew from observation and rough calculations that the Earth was round. It just wasn't very popular.

However, as we are in the era of knowledge and science, I would think that with all the scientists in the world, the landscape is quite different from Columbus.

Dr. Ketchum was a prominent doctor in Kentucky who had gained the reputation as a miracle worker. He had repeatedly diagnosed and treated cases that had baffled the scientific community. He did this not once or twice but time and time again, all verifiable through his patients and records. In July of 1910 Dr. Ketchum was asked to submit a paper for the September meeting of the American Association for Clinical Research to be held in Boston. In this paper Dr. Ketchum explained that he was able to diagnose and treat these baffling cases by consulting with a psychic named Edgar Cayce and it was actually Cayce who made the diagnosis and determined treatment which was then administered by Dr. Ketchum. Dr. Ketchum’s astounding record of success suddenly meant nothing. Soon after his paper became public the majority of doctors in Christian County Kentucky went to the court house in Hopkinsville and demanded Dr. Ketchum’s license to practice medicine be revoked. Dr. Ketchum’s results were beyond question and he was able to recreate those results for anyone’s scrutiny. Yet Dr. Ketchum and Cayce and their acomplishments are ignored by mainstream science. I consider this not a failing in Dr. Ketchum or Cayce but rather a failing in us. When confronted with something not possible by our understanding we discount it rather than working to expand our understanding to explain it. Dr. Ketchum repeatedly provided verifiable results and rather than beating down his door to help him, they shunned him.


Yeah, I've read about Edgar Cayce and the man was a verifiable fraud. His "verifiable" evidence was from people who no more than a 9th grade education, and was always second-hand tales to boost his popularity.

Even if he weren't, our understanding of medicine hasn't really taken off until the last 50 years or so. Fooling a bunch of "scientists" from the early 20th century isn't that impressive.

Most of us already know that there's no such thing as psychics or prophets. But there sure are scam artists and profits.

In fact, it was no failure on our part at all. It was a bright moment in history whenever we shun fraudsters and scam artists like Cayce.

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Message 1156519 - Posted: 27 Sep 2011, 3:32:07 UTC

My point exactly, thank you.

OzzFan
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Message 1156605 - Posted: 27 Sep 2011, 12:10:07 UTC - in response to Message 1156519.

No problem. Glad I can help straighten you out and use a little more critical thinking. Might prevent you from getting snookered in the future.

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