'What-if' an advanced ET were to notice Earth?...

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Message 1142268 - Posted: 18 Aug 2011, 20:25:04 UTC
Last modified: 18 Aug 2011, 20:26:46 UTC

A group in NASA have been brain-stormin' over how an intelligent ET encounter might develop:


Aliens may destroy humanity to protect other civilisations, say scientists

Rising greenhouse emissions may tip off aliens that we are a rapidly expanding threat, warns a report for Nasa


It may not rank as the most compelling reason to curb greenhouse gases, but reducing our emissions might just save humanity from a pre-emptive alien attack, scientists claim.

Watching from afar, extraterrestrial beings might view changes in Earth's atmosphere as symptomatic of a civilisation growing out of control – and take drastic action to keep us from becoming a more serious threat, the researchers explain.

This highly speculative scenario is one of several described by scientists at Nasa and Pennsylvania State University that, while considered unlikely, they say could play out were humans and alien life to make contact at some point in the future. ...



Curious stuff!... But plausible?

Keep searchin',
Martin
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Message 1142308 - Posted: 18 Aug 2011, 21:57:12 UTC
Last modified: 18 Aug 2011, 22:44:52 UTC

Yes. Five or so people feeding the download server with new tasks for us to process and me to post rubbish stuff back in return.

Well. The problem earlier posted here regarding the problem I had regarding the presence of triplets in the graphics of opened windows appear to have been mostly solved.

From my account, I chose "Preferences for this project" (Seti@home Preferences) from the box or paragraph labeled Preferences.

From there I edited the Preferences. Rather than the pre-set "Seti@home classic" in the pull-down menu "Graphics preferences", I chose "Minimalist". I also tried out "Panels", but "Minimalist" is definitely the better one of the two.

Without altering or changing the other parameters available to me there, I also tried out "Custom". As of now, I am a little uncertain regarding this choice. I have not yet tried going back to "Seti@home Classic", but otherwise I really do not remember if this choice ran as "Minimalist", "Panels" or something else.

Probably I did not have any triplets running in my tasks at that moment and therefore did not get that annoying blue screen error. In any case, the problem appears to have been solved for now when choosing either "Minimalist" or "Panels", at least.
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Message 1142327 - Posted: 18 Aug 2011, 23:03:05 UTC
Last modified: 18 Aug 2011, 23:04:35 UTC

"nr","date","result_name","cpu","start_ra","start_dec","end_ra","end_dec",
"angle_range","time_recorded","bs_score","bs_power","spike_count","bg_score",
"bg_power","bg_chisq","gaussian_count","bp_score","bp_power","bp_period",
"pulse_count","bt_score","bt_power","bt_period","triplet_count"

"1","2005.11.09 17:33:02","23my04aa.20947.25280.915908.38_3_0","05:21:16","4.3732217822157",
"13.611955989316","4.4088969433804","13.444092686005","0.55911518292217",
"2453149.2226852","-0.086921","32.744562516381","4","4.494930",
"1.8917645215988","0.42086625099182","0","0.959449","0.45254981517792",
"0.0755968","0",,,,"0"

In fact. I like this one. You do not.

Yes. You have seen it before, you certainly have. Any other ways you might like to have it. A kiss perhaps?

But why does an "intelligent" number have to be "higher" than (the) others?

Certainly this one was thrown away.

Seti@home has still to find something / anything. Nothing as yet.

I rather watch some UFO movies on Youtube for the rest of the evening.
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Message 1142424 - Posted: 19 Aug 2011, 2:34:38 UTC
Last modified: 19 Aug 2011, 2:35:38 UTC

So, the Sci-Fi movie "Skyline" is a possible scenario? That's scary.

As far as detecting ET, I think we might be looking in the wrong place. I believe ET could be broadcasting in the noise. Why? The advanced ET's don't want to be bothered with rabble that are still living in caves and digging in the dirt, from their point of view. They've all been where we are now, searching in the quiet band and finding nothing.

As time passed, their science and knowledge flourished until they discovered the 'key'. A relationship, a ratio, the unification theory, something that gave them the ability to distinguish order from the chaos of background noise. The noise isn't all just noise. We're not there, yet.

Hey, this was supposed to be Sci-Fi, right?? :)

Lt
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Message 1142641 - Posted: 19 Aug 2011, 16:46:26 UTC

I think it is just as plausible that if ET were to notice our existence they would make a log entry, verify that we can barely get ourselves into orbit, notice we are on the brink of our own demise and make a note to check back later.
Bob DeWoody

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Message 1142719 - Posted: 19 Aug 2011, 19:50:38 UTC - in response to Message 1142424.  

We have well-known signal processing techniques that will bring a signal up out of the noise. Noise is random but follows a well known Gaussian curve. When a signal is auto correlated or cross correlated it will jump up out of the Noise.

Noise will appear on any band. Thermal noise in the receiver as well as background radiation.
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Message 1142760 - Posted: 19 Aug 2011, 21:23:29 UTC - in response to Message 1142641.  

I think it is just as plausible that if ET were to notice our existence they would make a log entry, verify that we can barely get ourselves into orbit, notice we are on the brink of our own demise and make a note to check back later.

OK, I think that fits Douglas Adams' summary of "Mostly harmless".

(See also: the guide)

Keep searchin',
Martin

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Message 1142805 - Posted: 19 Aug 2011, 22:19:30 UTC - in response to Message 1142719.  
Last modified: 19 Aug 2011, 22:27:15 UTC

When do you know a gaussian is "intelligent" in nature?

Is it only the numbers in it (power, fit and score) - or should it be the carrier of information (meaning a possible message)?

Example from my logs (intentionally not the highest score I have):

"nr","date","result_name","cpu","start_ra","start_dec","end_ra","end_dec",
"angle_range","time_recorded","bs_score","bs_power","spike_count","bg_score",
"bg_power","bg_chisq","gaussian_count","bp_score","bp_power","bp_period",
"pulse_count","bt_score","bt_power","bt_period","triplet_count"

"437","2008.07.04 04:00:49","06mr08ai.27497.5798.7.8.105_0_0","05:26:08","8.2951838591858",
"29.389450848964","8.3250610886358","29.389465778551","0.39048229654371",
"2454532.5720297","-0.274240","21.272566387096","1","1.799584","-1","-1","0",
"0.973752","7.1012926101685","3.4078719615936","4",,,,"0"

"494","2008.09.09 06:06:04","14au08ad.3459.4162.11.8.216_0_0","05:31:39","1.9137821662778",
"7.4828898535863","1.9436682616439","7.4828918762916","0.44447368909481",
"2454692.8674851",,,"6","4.614378","-1.#IND","-1.#IND","0","0.970055",
"1.5307371616364","0.34897920489311","0","11.795743","11.795742988586",
"2.0185089111328","1"

And finally "success":

"41","2007.05.16 21:24:55","11fe05aa.24379.13488.59646.3.71_4_0","06:44:12","6.9473398369349",
"20.950847567101","6.9766895673976","20.944727513729","0.42131509130686",
"2453413.5506943","-0.224609","23.847964298289","0","3.746632",
"2.0965366363525","1.3347446918488","1","0.978729","9.1351528167725",
"5.4525952339172","0",,,,"0"

In the first example you may be able to see that the gaussian score is here 1.799584, but gaussian count is 0. Also there is no power and fit (both numbers are -1, respectively).

In the second example, gaussian score is thought to be 4.614378, but also here power and fit only lists as -1.#IND, respectively.

Because you think it is an error (or maybe perhaps the opposite - "intelligent")?

Regardless of whether gaussian count is 0 or not, you need a corresponding gaussian curve for a given gaussian score.

But none of these three examples make it to the list of Seti@home candidates.

Should I make a check of my logs and try to find out whether gaussian count is 30 at some place. In fact, I can not remember exactly that.

Would an intelligent signal be gaussian only (or something else -the rest does not count)?

Maybe I am making to much out of the gaussian score and forgetting the rest?
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Message 1142810 - Posted: 19 Aug 2011, 22:30:21 UTC

A transmission from ET does not have to be 'intelligent' in nature, or even translatable in any form.
The simple recognition that such a transmission did come from some life form above the simple level of a microbe would be enough to validate the search for life outside of our planet.

Don't matter if it was morse code or bursts of noise.

If it was generated by anything other than spontaneous conditions........that is what we search for, my friends.
Always remember.....kitties are all Angels with fur.

Have made friends in this life.
Most were cats.
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Message 1142842 - Posted: 19 Aug 2011, 23:29:55 UTC - in response to Message 1142810.  

If it was generated by anything other than spontaneous conditions........that is what we search for, my friends.


Certainly.

A sort of "Blind Man's Bluff" in space, but not the Star Trek version.

Lt

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Message 1142845 - Posted: 19 Aug 2011, 23:34:54 UTC
Last modified: 19 Aug 2011, 23:39:56 UTC

Like the WOW signal perhaps, which was detected as a wave and possibly being a scrambled signal.

What does 'intelligence' really mean (not just thinking about an 'intelligent' signal)?

Comparing with Albert Einstein. He was thought of as being intelligent. In some cases such people are regarded as geniuses as well.

Some people are being discovered having such capabilities already in childhood.

In others similar or other capabilities may well go undetected or unused.

I do regard myself as being well educated and quite experienced in what I am doing, but I do not think I belong in the above-mentioned category of people.

Anyway, perhaps I should refresh the page before (re-)posting? I noticed Lint trap's posting after re-posting myself.
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Message 1142945 - Posted: 20 Aug 2011, 3:37:30 UTC - in response to Message 1142810.  

Is the Hubble telescope, Keppler and other telescopes fit with radio receivers, if yes, could these telescopes detect a non-Earth signal?
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Message 1142973 - Posted: 20 Aug 2011, 5:24:16 UTC - in response to Message 1142945.  

Is the Hubble telescope, Keppler and other telescopes fit with radio receivers, if yes, could these telescopes detect a non-Earth signal?

No, they are not able to receive radio waves. The Russian radiotelescope recently put in orbit might do it.
Tullio
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Message 1143056 - Posted: 20 Aug 2011, 13:41:56 UTC

The following article makes the situation with this new paper clearer. One of the authors, and not the main one, has an academic affiliation with the NASA. He did not help write the paper as part of his work there. The report was not commissioned, sanctioned or endorsed by the NASA. The news media mistakenly made it seem otherwise. http://cosmiclog.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/08/19/7419399-what-if-et-thinks-were-evil
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Message 1143065 - Posted: 20 Aug 2011, 14:47:57 UTC

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Message 1143320 - Posted: 21 Aug 2011, 5:26:17 UTC

Isn't this "what if" thread supposed to be about ET detecting us? Our detection capabilities have nothing to do with an ET civilization detecting our presence on earth.
Bob DeWoody

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Message 1143429 - Posted: 21 Aug 2011, 10:08:50 UTC - in response to Message 1143320.  
Last modified: 21 Aug 2011, 10:09:59 UTC

They wouldn't notice much. Or, would they ?

They might see that there is oxygen here so that there almost certainly is some form of life. They might detect coherent and radar type emissions and conclude that there were creatures, possibly similar to themselves. Since we are not broadcasting a beacon they would have to be in close in relative terms.

If they could decode our Television signals they would know pretty much how we looked and what life was like here on earth.

I believe they would have to be well within 100 light years and I don't believe that there is a high probability that there is other intelligent (like us ) life within this radius?

Would they come to conquer us ? They would be too far away.
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Message 1143433 - Posted: 21 Aug 2011, 10:39:27 UTC

Does the title of this thread mean from a distance or from local observation?

If from local observation, i.e. a space exploration expedition passes by the solar system and detects life on earth, I think they would just note it in their logs, and move on. We at our stage of evolvement would be of no interest to them, and no threat either. If they were advanced enough to be able to have conquered space travel, they would know the total worldwide panic that would ensue with direct contact.

If contact was made via some form of communications with another star system, that would be different. We may be able to send and receive messages, but the sheer distances invloved would probably mean that neither they or us could visit each other. In which case just knowing each other was there would be safe enough.
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Message 1143544 - Posted: 21 Aug 2011, 18:22:31 UTC

"What if . . ."

If they have any interest in self-preservation, they'll run the other way just as fast as they possibly can.
Pure mathematics is, in its way, the poetry of logical ideas.

Albert Einstein
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Message 1143569 - Posted: 21 Aug 2011, 19:40:34 UTC

"What if ..."

Isn't that why Nibiru is on a collision course?

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