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For the folks who belive mars can have life.
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Larry Monske Send message Joined: 17 Sep 05 Posts: 281 Credit: 554,328 RAC: 0 |
To simulate the conditions on mars, collect petri dishes and nurse the bacterium to grow. Or use any living organism maybe cockroaches. Get 10 pounds of dry ice. Place the dry ice in styrafoam cooler. Place your sample dishes on the dry ice. In the lid of the cooler place a florensent ultraviolet lamp small one maybe 12 inches long. Check for signs of life in 48 hours. most microbes would be dead. Extremiphile microbes might survive be fun to test the toughest ecoli we have on earth. By doing this you have duplicated the atmospherics on mars carbon dioxide and ample UV from the sun would sterilize anything. Mars high temperature in low 20s, maximun low over 230 degrees below zero. Dry ice is minus 235 degrees below zero. The temps at the poles keep a frozen CO2 ice cap forever. There is water flows more like brine flows that are seasonal but at the equator. |
Bob DeWoody Send message Joined: 9 May 10 Posts: 3387 Credit: 4,182,900 RAC: 10 |
The key word there is "most" Thirty years ago most biologists would have claimed that "life" could not exist at the bottom of our oceans or deep in rocks over a mile below the surface. And it is true that "most" life forms can't live in those invironments, but some do. I don't have to stretch my imagination much to entertain the idea that some form of life is present on or in Mars after seeing where life can be found here on earth. Bob DeWoody My motto: Never do today what you can put off until tomorrow as it may not be required. This no longer applies in light of current events. |
William Rothamel Send message Joined: 25 Oct 06 Posts: 3756 Credit: 1,999,735 RAC: 4 |
Mars once was warm and had an atmosphere. Life could have started back then. There is evidence that water one flowed and was abundant on Mars. This strongly suggests to me that life of some form was also abundant on Mars. The great discovery would be to dig down and find some fossil evidence of whatever life might have started there. What is the temperature below the surface of Mars. Could there be caves where water-borne life still exists ? |
ML1 Send message Joined: 25 Nov 01 Posts: 20147 Credit: 7,508,002 RAC: 20 |
Mars once was warm and had an atmosphere. Life could have started back then. There is evidence that water one flowed and was abundant on Mars. This strongly suggests to me that life of some form was also abundant on Mars. Is that not the emphasis of the present searches on Mars by NASA? The great discovery would be to dig down and find some fossil evidence of whatever life might have started there. OOoooer... If only Beagle 2 had survived descent to try out its mole instrument... The underground temperatures in Mars could well be favourable for life to survive. There's various volcanic tubes that have been seen that have got researchers excited for that... Microbes survive worse conditions in various obscure parts of our own planet. The really big question at the moment is whether life had a favourable chance to get started on Mars... And in what ways that might have been different or the same as for Earth... Keep searchin', Martin See new freedom: Mageia Linux Take a look for yourself: Linux Format The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3) |
Bob DeWoody Send message Joined: 9 May 10 Posts: 3387 Credit: 4,182,900 RAC: 10 |
If evidence of any form of life past or present is found on Mars then we can count on it being common all over the universe. But that still doesn't get us there. I wonder if earth scientists will adopt the stringent hands off policy displayed in certain Sci Fi movies when even primitive life is discovered on other worlds. Bob DeWoody My motto: Never do today what you can put off until tomorrow as it may not be required. This no longer applies in light of current events. |
C Olival Send message Joined: 6 Sep 10 Posts: 209 Credit: 10,675 RAC: 0 |
There a higher probability or conditions for life forms in Titan than Mars. Titan has a rich nitrogen atmosphere, and hydrocarbons, amonia etc. Titan is a primordial Earth; Mars however has a thin atmosphere and vulnerable to cosmic rays, not the best enviroment for DNA based life form at the surface. I agree, maybe in a cave enviroment, life can be found. This might sound out of the realm of fantasy, but terraform would be the only way of making Mars habitable to surface life forms. Think of the movie " Total Recall " |
ML1 Send message Joined: 25 Nov 01 Posts: 20147 Credit: 7,508,002 RAC: 20 |
There a higher probability or conditions for life forms in Titan than Mars. Titan has a rich nitrogen atmosphere, and hydrocarbons, amonia etc. Titan is a primordial Earth; ... Unfortunately, Titan is also very cold. So cold that the water there is ice that is as hard as rock. Even assuming that life could develop using other cryogenic fluids as solvents for the chemistry essential for life, it is so cold there that the reactions to do anything meaningful would take longer than the solar system has so far existed! Sorry, the ingredients are there, but it is oh so very far too far cold! In contrast, Mars could well still harbour habitable zones if life has already been able to get started. Keep searchin', Martin See new freedom: Mageia Linux Take a look for yourself: Linux Format The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3) |
Bob DeWoody Send message Joined: 9 May 10 Posts: 3387 Credit: 4,182,900 RAC: 10 |
It has been argued that Europa on the other hand is a good candidate for harboring primitive life forms. The tidal effects of it's orbit around Jupiter are presumed to generate enough heat below the frozen surface to make it's ocean of water friendly to life and the frozen surface would act as a shield from harmful radiation. Bob DeWoody My motto: Never do today what you can put off until tomorrow as it may not be required. This no longer applies in light of current events. |
Jim Martin Send message Joined: 21 Jun 03 Posts: 2473 Credit: 646,848 RAC: 0 |
A good book to read would be, "Unmasking Europa", by Richard Greenberg. Perhaps, exotic forms of, say jelly-fish, might exist to feed on micro- organisims, beneath the ice. There's a lot of discoloration along the ice fracture-lines. A relatively-simple unmanned spacecraft might be able to just check them out, without having to drill through it all (I believe, that idea was mentioned, in the book.). Cheers, jm |
Allie in Vancouver Send message Joined: 16 Mar 07 Posts: 3949 Credit: 1,604,668 RAC: 0 |
The one thing that life on Earth teaches: if there is liquid water, life will find a way. Pure mathematics is, in its way, the poetry of logical ideas. Albert Einstein |
William Rothamel Send message Joined: 25 Oct 06 Posts: 3756 Credit: 1,999,735 RAC: 4 |
Jim, Do we know if the ice on Europa is water ice. Have we determined for sure that there is liquid under the ice ?. Tidal forces are probably causing the pressure ridges and cracks. |
ML1 Send message Joined: 25 Nov 01 Posts: 20147 Credit: 7,508,002 RAC: 20 |
... Do we know if the ice on Europa is water ice. Have we determined for sure that there is liquid under the ice ?. Tidal forces are probably causing the pressure ridges and cracks. Yes. See: Ice on Europa There are indeed tidal forces at play! Keep searchin', Martin See new freedom: Mageia Linux Take a look for yourself: Linux Format The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3) |
William Rothamel Send message Joined: 25 Oct 06 Posts: 3756 Credit: 1,999,735 RAC: 4 |
Pretty good evidence that it is water; but still some doubt. |
kittyman Send message Joined: 9 Jul 00 Posts: 51468 Credit: 1,018,363,574 RAC: 1,004 |
One must understand that all life in the universe may not mirror ours....... Our discoveries on our own planet have revealed life forms in deep sea waters living under conditions that we once thought uninhabitable by our previous standards. "Freedom is just Chaos, with better lighting." Alan Dean Foster |
C Olival Send message Joined: 6 Sep 10 Posts: 209 Credit: 10,675 RAC: 0 |
Europa could harbor the conditions for life, deep ocean life forms; but Titan has a better atmospheric chemistry conditions than Europa, it is feasable for life forms be based on methane. Water might not be the only solvent for life, liquid methane could be a solvent and that fits with Titan's environment. |
C Olival Send message Joined: 6 Sep 10 Posts: 209 Credit: 10,675 RAC: 0 |
Probably the thing in common with other inteligent life in the cosmos is the bipedal ability. Nature applies probably the same rules throughout the universe when it comes to the development of life, except conditions near the event horizon of black holes and pulsars. Life would have no chance of surviving on planets close to such objects. The first exoplanets idenfied were fond to orbit a pulsar, life on such an environment is non existent. |
Samuel Send message Joined: 13 Nov 07 Posts: 40 Credit: 554,815 RAC: 0 |
the temperature on Titan is near the tripel point of Methan. So Methan may have the function of water there. But the problem is that Metan is a apolar (nonpolar) Molecule. A water molecule is a dipole, and this characteristic is very important for the life and biochemistry. I think there are better chances to find life on Europa. In the past we thought that sunlight is neseccary for life on earth. But later we found ecosystems where the primary producers don't use sunlight. On Europa you may find the same situation (- black smokers). Chemotrophic organisms can obtain energy only by the oxidation of electron donors. These elektron donors can be anorganic (vor example H2S) or organic. If there is vulcanism on Europa you can find all the requirements for these lifeforms. |
William Rothamel Send message Joined: 25 Oct 06 Posts: 3756 Credit: 1,999,735 RAC: 4 |
It may be that Europa like our moon does not have a hot core and therefore no volcanic activity. Would tidal forces provide the necessary energy for life in these cases. |
Samuel Send message Joined: 13 Nov 07 Posts: 40 Credit: 554,815 RAC: 0 |
that's true. have a look at Io, there you can find very strong volcanism because of the tidal forces. Europa is the second of the Galilean moons, and so he may become enough energy in form of tidal forces from jupiter for the evolution of life. |
Bob DeWoody Send message Joined: 9 May 10 Posts: 3387 Credit: 4,182,900 RAC: 10 |
Probably the thing in common with other inteligent life in the cosmos is the bipedal ability. Nature applies probably the same rules throughout the universe when it comes to the development of life, except conditions near the event horizon of black holes and pulsars. Life would have no chance of surviving on planets close to such objects. The first exoplanets idenfied were fond to orbit a pulsar, life on such an environment is non existent. What has this got to do with whether one or more of the planets or moons around our sun harboring life? Bob DeWoody My motto: Never do today what you can put off until tomorrow as it may not be required. This no longer applies in light of current events. |
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