For the folks who belive mars can have life.


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Larry Monske
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Message 1140692 - Posted: 15 Aug 2011, 4:34:58 UTC

To simulate the conditions on mars, collect petri dishes and nurse the bacterium to grow. Or use any living organism maybe cockroaches. Get 10 pounds of dry ice. Place the dry ice in styrafoam cooler. Place your sample dishes on the dry ice. In the lid of the cooler place a florensent ultraviolet lamp small one maybe 12 inches long. Check for signs of life in 48 hours. most microbes would be dead.
Extremiphile microbes might survive be fun to test the toughest ecoli we have on earth.
By doing this you have duplicated the atmospherics on mars carbon dioxide and ample UV from the sun would sterilize anything. Mars high temperature in low 20s, maximun low over 230 degrees below zero. Dry ice is minus 235 degrees below zero. The temps at the poles keep a frozen CO2 ice cap forever. There is water flows more like brine flows that are seasonal but at the equator.

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Message 1140725 - Posted: 15 Aug 2011, 8:30:20 UTC

The key word there is "most" Thirty years ago most biologists would have claimed that "life" could not exist at the bottom of our oceans or deep in rocks over a mile below the surface. And it is true that "most" life forms can't live in those invironments, but some do. I don't have to stretch my imagination much to entertain the idea that some form of life is present on or in Mars after seeing where life can be found here on earth.
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Message 1140804 - Posted: 15 Aug 2011, 15:30:46 UTC - in response to Message 1140692.

Mars once was warm and had an atmosphere. Life could have started back then. There is evidence that water one flowed and was abundant on Mars. This strongly suggests to me that life of some form was also abundant on Mars. The great discovery would be to dig down and find some fossil evidence of whatever life might have started there.

What is the temperature below the surface of Mars. Could there be caves where water-borne life still exists ?

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Message 1140842 - Posted: 15 Aug 2011, 18:07:35 UTC - in response to Message 1140804.
Last modified: 15 Aug 2011, 18:08:58 UTC

Mars once was warm and had an atmosphere. Life could have started back then. There is evidence that water one flowed and was abundant on Mars. This strongly suggests to me that life of some form was also abundant on Mars.

Is that not the emphasis of the present searches on Mars by NASA?

The great discovery would be to dig down and find some fossil evidence of whatever life might have started there.

What is the temperature below the surface of Mars. Could there be caves where water-borne life still exists ?

OOoooer... If only Beagle 2 had survived descent to try out its mole instrument...


The underground temperatures in Mars could well be favourable for life to survive. There's various volcanic tubes that have been seen that have got researchers excited for that... Microbes survive worse conditions in various obscure parts of our own planet.

The really big question at the moment is whether life had a favourable chance to get started on Mars... And in what ways that might have been different or the same as for Earth...


Keep searchin',
Martin
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Message 1140881 - Posted: 15 Aug 2011, 20:55:31 UTC

If evidence of any form of life past or present is found on Mars then we can count on it being common all over the universe. But that still doesn't get us there.

I wonder if earth scientists will adopt the stringent hands off policy displayed in certain Sci Fi movies when even primitive life is discovered on other worlds.
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C Olival
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Message 1141489 - Posted: 17 Aug 2011, 3:52:57 UTC - in response to Message 1140804.

There a higher probability or conditions for life forms in Titan than Mars. Titan has a rich nitrogen atmosphere, and hydrocarbons, amonia etc. Titan is a primordial Earth; Mars however has a thin atmosphere and vulnerable to cosmic rays, not the best enviroment for DNA based life form at the surface. I agree, maybe in a cave enviroment, life can be found. This might sound out of the realm of fantasy, but terraform would be the only way of making Mars habitable to surface life forms. Think of the movie " Total Recall "

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Message 1141546 - Posted: 17 Aug 2011, 9:53:57 UTC - in response to Message 1141489.

There a higher probability or conditions for life forms in Titan than Mars. Titan has a rich nitrogen atmosphere, and hydrocarbons, amonia etc. Titan is a primordial Earth; ...

Unfortunately, Titan is also very cold. So cold that the water there is ice that is as hard as rock.

Even assuming that life could develop using other cryogenic fluids as solvents for the chemistry essential for life, it is so cold there that the reactions to do anything meaningful would take longer than the solar system has so far existed!

Sorry, the ingredients are there, but it is oh so very far too far cold!

In contrast, Mars could well still harbour habitable zones if life has already been able to get started.


Keep searchin',
Martin

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Message 1141883 - Posted: 18 Aug 2011, 0:54:58 UTC

It has been argued that Europa on the other hand is a good candidate for harboring primitive life forms. The tidal effects of it's orbit around Jupiter are presumed to generate enough heat below the frozen surface to make it's ocean of water friendly to life and the frozen surface would act as a shield from harmful radiation.
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Jim MartinProject donor
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Message 1142220 - Posted: 18 Aug 2011, 19:21:34 UTC

A good book to read would be, "Unmasking Europa", by Richard Greenberg.

Perhaps, exotic forms of, say jelly-fish, might exist to feed on micro-
organisims, beneath the ice. There's a lot of discoloration along the
ice fracture-lines. A relatively-simple unmanned spacecraft might be
able to just check them out, without having to drill through it all
(I believe, that idea was mentioned, in the book.).

Cheers,

jm
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Message 1142322 - Posted: 18 Aug 2011, 22:55:49 UTC

The one thing that life on Earth teaches: if there is liquid water, life will find a way.
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Message 1142553 - Posted: 19 Aug 2011, 9:57:09 UTC - in response to Message 1142220.

Jim,

Do we know if the ice on Europa is water ice. Have we determined for sure that there is liquid under the ice ?. Tidal forces are probably causing the pressure ridges and cracks.

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Message 1142585 - Posted: 19 Aug 2011, 12:48:10 UTC - in response to Message 1142553.

... Do we know if the ice on Europa is water ice. Have we determined for sure that there is liquid under the ice ?. Tidal forces are probably causing the pressure ridges and cracks.

Yes.

See: Ice on Europa

There are indeed tidal forces at play!

Keep searchin',
Martin

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Message 1142720 - Posted: 19 Aug 2011, 19:52:11 UTC - in response to Message 1142585.

Pretty good evidence that it is water; but still some doubt.

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Message 1142943 - Posted: 20 Aug 2011, 3:31:20 UTC - in response to Message 1141883.

Europa could harbor the conditions for life, deep ocean life forms; but Titan has a better atmospheric chemistry conditions than Europa, it is feasable for life forms be based on methane. Water might not be the only solvent for life, liquid methane could be a solvent and that fits with Titan's environment.

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Message 1142950 - Posted: 20 Aug 2011, 3:48:10 UTC - in response to Message 1142808.

Probably the thing in common with other inteligent life in the cosmos is the bipedal ability. Nature applies probably the same rules throughout the universe when it comes to the development of life, except conditions near the event horizon of black holes and pulsars. Life would have no chance of surviving on planets close to such objects. The first exoplanets idenfied were fond to orbit a pulsar, life on such an environment is non existent.

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Message 1143008 - Posted: 20 Aug 2011, 9:15:21 UTC

the temperature on Titan is near the tripel point of Methan. So Methan may have the function of water there. But the problem is that Metan is a apolar (nonpolar) Molecule. A water molecule is a dipole, and this characteristic is very important for the life and biochemistry.

I think there are better chances to find life on Europa. In the past we thought that sunlight is neseccary for life on earth. But later we found ecosystems where the primary producers don't use sunlight. On Europa you may find the same situation (- black smokers).
Chemotrophic organisms can obtain energy only by the oxidation of electron donors. These elektron donors can be anorganic (vor example H2S) or organic. If there is vulcanism on Europa you can find all the requirements for these lifeforms.

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Message 1143025 - Posted: 20 Aug 2011, 11:04:26 UTC - in response to Message 1143008.
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It may be that Europa like our moon does not have a hot core and therefore no volcanic activity. Would tidal forces provide the necessary energy for life in these cases.

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Message 1143037 - Posted: 20 Aug 2011, 11:35:28 UTC

that's true.
have a look at Io, there you can find very strong volcanism because of the tidal forces. Europa is the second of the Galilean moons, and so he may become enough energy in form of tidal forces from jupiter for the evolution of life.

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Message 1143321 - Posted: 21 Aug 2011, 5:28:37 UTC - in response to Message 1142950.

Probably the thing in common with other inteligent life in the cosmos is the bipedal ability. Nature applies probably the same rules throughout the universe when it comes to the development of life, except conditions near the event horizon of black holes and pulsars. Life would have no chance of surviving on planets close to such objects. The first exoplanets idenfied were fond to orbit a pulsar, life on such an environment is non existent.

What has this got to do with whether one or more of the planets or moons around our sun harboring life?
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