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Message 1140423 - Posted: 14 Aug 2011, 15:41:59 UTC
Last modified: 14 Aug 2011, 15:47:09 UTC

What does "entitled" mean to you?
Is that what it really means?
To me, I have interpreted it as "I am entitled to this" means "I want this because I deserve it."
And, to me, that is different from simply "I want this."
What are the thoughts of our community?
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Message 1140523 - Posted: 14 Aug 2011, 20:20:15 UTC
Last modified: 14 Aug 2011, 20:25:57 UTC

Do you mean the dictionary definition or the current [ab]use of the word by conservatives in the US to deride anyone receiving a salary or benefit from the government?

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Message 1140539 - Posted: 14 Aug 2011, 21:08:34 UTC - in response to Message 1140523.  

or the other conservative definition that they are entitled to lower taxes, large tax breaks, etc.


In a rich man's house there is no place to spit but his face.
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Message 1140587 - Posted: 14 Aug 2011, 23:22:03 UTC - in response to Message 1140523.  

Do you mean the dictionary definition or the current [ab]use of the word by conservatives in the US to deride anyone receiving a salary or benefit from the government?

I wouldn't put it quite so bluntly, but this is part of the inspiration of the question. It is further inspired by a post of Gary's in the thread about the London riots. I do not follow his use of the word "entitled" there, referring to the younger generation(s), while he does concede, it seems, that the advertising industry has considerable power over young impressionable minds.
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Profile MOMMY: He is MAKING ME Read His Posts Thoughts and Prayers. GOoD Thoughts and GOoD Prayers. HATERWORLD Vs THOUGHTs and PRAYERs World. It Is a BATTLE ROYALE. Nobody LOVEs Me. Everybody HATEs Me. Why Don't I Go Eat Worms. Tasty Treats are Wormy Meat. Yes
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Message 1140670 - Posted: 15 Aug 2011, 2:19:24 UTC

We are Entitled to our Life, Liberty, and Pursuit of Happiness, along with The Other Unalienable Rights, and Not have them Reduced, Curtailed or Removed by those recieving Entitlements.

I am Null and Void and A Darwin Barnacle.
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Message 1140781 - Posted: 15 Aug 2011, 14:07:57 UTC - in response to Message 1140670.  

We are Entitled to our Life, Liberty, and Pursuit of Happiness, along with The Other Unalienable Rights, and Not have them Reduced, Curtailed or Removed by those recieving Entitlements.

I am Null and Void and A Darwin Barnacle.

"I before E except after C!"
"You make me unhappy.'
"Care to discuss Libya?" :)
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Message 1140841 - Posted: 15 Aug 2011, 18:04:51 UTC

Enough entitlements....

EW YORK (CNNMoney) -- Billionaire investor Warren Buffett, saying he doesn't want to be "coddled" by Congress, says that wealthier Americans should pay higher taxes, and that higher taxes do not dampen job growth.
Buffett, chief executive of Berkshire Hathaway (BRKA, Fortune 500), wrote in an op-ed piece published Monday in The New York Times that taxes should be raised on Americans who make at least $1 million per year.
"While the poor and middle class fight for us in Afghanistan, and while most Americans struggle to make ends meet, we mega-rich continue to get our extraordinary tax breaks," wrote Buffett, who has mentioned in past interviews that the rich should pay higher taxes.
The philanthropist said that his 2010 federal tax bill, including income and payroll taxes, was $6,938,744.
"That sounds like a lot of money," wrote the Omaha, Neb.-based billionaire. "But what I paid was only 17.4% of my taxable income - and that's actually a lower percentage than was paid by any of the other 20 people in our office."
He added that some investment managers were taxed only 15% on billions of dollars in income. He compared that to the middle class, with its income tax bracket of up to 25%.
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Profile MOMMY: He is MAKING ME Read His Posts Thoughts and Prayers. GOoD Thoughts and GOoD Prayers. HATERWORLD Vs THOUGHTs and PRAYERs World. It Is a BATTLE ROYALE. Nobody LOVEs Me. Everybody HATEs Me. Why Don't I Go Eat Worms. Tasty Treats are Wormy Meat. Yes
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Message 1140849 - Posted: 15 Aug 2011, 18:24:17 UTC

$6,938,744

The amount above is about what 10,000 Middle Class Americans pay in total, in a year. Play with percentages all one wants.

He paid His Fair Share. OVERPAID actually.

W.B should Shut Up.

I am Null and Void and a Darwin Barnacle.
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Message 1140852 - Posted: 15 Aug 2011, 18:36:52 UTC - in response to Message 1140849.  

Null --

He probably votes, and was simply expressing his opinion.

Based on what you've previously posted -- you really have limited standing to suggest he shut up. <smile>.




W.B should Shut Up.

I am Null and Void and a Darwin Barnacle.


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Profile MOMMY: He is MAKING ME Read His Posts Thoughts and Prayers. GOoD Thoughts and GOoD Prayers. HATERWORLD Vs THOUGHTs and PRAYERs World. It Is a BATTLE ROYALE. Nobody LOVEs Me. Everybody HATEs Me. Why Don't I Go Eat Worms. Tasty Treats are Wormy Meat. Yes
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Message 1140856 - Posted: 15 Aug 2011, 19:13:00 UTC

Based on what you've previously posted -- you really have limited standing to suggest he shut up. <smile>.

Ouch.

Still. Mr. AZ, I don't think I would admit to The World, reading anything I have 'previously' said. You can recoup by Not Reading Anything I Post In The Future. <smiling>

Reading An Idiot's(Null-Void-Barnacle guy) Ramblings is injurious to Physical and Mental Health.

Anyways. Back to The Potus.

Is He really on a Bus Tour? Will they have a Throw Someone Under The Bus Contest at Every Stop? That would be fun.

Is The Bus Eco-Friendly? There are many Alternative Energy Powered Buses now.

I am Null and Void and a Darwin Barnacle

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Message 1140861 - Posted: 15 Aug 2011, 19:50:34 UTC - in response to Message 1140849.  
Last modified: 15 Aug 2011, 19:51:36 UTC

$6,938,744

The amount above is about what 10,000 Middle Class Americans pay in total, in a year. Play with percentages all one wants.

He paid His Fair Share. OVERPAID actually.

W.B should Shut Up.

I am Null and Void and a Darwin Barnacle.


Sensible philosophy, Null and void.

When a country starts to quibble over peoples taxation levels and to the
amount one pays over and above another tends to indicate that this country
has finally gone ex-growth. The country goes from one of "What it can make"
for it's population to one of "What it can take" from it's population.
Just check-out the UK in this instance...
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Message 1140874 - Posted: 15 Aug 2011, 20:49:06 UTC - in response to Message 1140856.  

Ah -- well I admit to reading at least some of what you've posted, but if you are not admitting reading what you've posted, I can see the sense of that <giggle>.


Still. Mr. AZ, I don't think I would admit to The World, reading anything I have 'previously' said. You can recoup by Not Reading Anything I Post In The Future. <smiling>



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Message 1140884 - Posted: 15 Aug 2011, 21:02:58 UTC - in response to Message 1140841.  

"That sounds like a lot of money," wrote the Omaha, Neb.-based billionaire. "But what I paid was only 17.4% of my taxable income - and that's actually a lower percentage than was paid by any of the other 20 people in our office."

Interesting as the AMT tax rate is 28%. He must have some big AMT eligible deductions and there are far fewer things which are deductible under AMT rules.

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Message 1140966 - Posted: 16 Aug 2011, 0:34:53 UTC - in response to Message 1140503.  

Entitled means 1 of 2 things.

Legally - You are entitled to certain tax allowances.
Morally - You should be entitled to respect from younger people.

The first is enforceable, the second isn't.


"The way to procure insults is to submit to them: a man meets with no more respect than he exacts.", seems William Hazlitt did not necessarily agree with your second view of entitlement.
I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that ...

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Message 1140990 - Posted: 16 Aug 2011, 1:02:57 UTC - in response to Message 1140884.  

"That sounds like a lot of money," wrote the Omaha, Neb.-based billionaire. "But what I paid was only 17.4% of my taxable income - and that's actually a lower percentage than was paid by any of the other 20 people in our office."

Interesting as the AMT tax rate is 28%. He must have some big AMT eligible deductions and there are far fewer things which are deductible under AMT rules.

"Let's drop the talking points." (This applies to Soft, initially, and Gary following up on it.)
Only Pasi Karonen and Bobby have directly addressed my question, and the question has been inspired by some of your posts, Gary.
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Message 1141000 - Posted: 16 Aug 2011, 1:23:21 UTC - in response to Message 1140990.  

I do not think I have heard of Warren Buffets positions as being talking points before. Fascinating.

But obviously many feel entitled to subject the masses of working population, and the rapidly vanishing middle class to subsistant wages so that a few may live excessively well.


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Message 1141230 - Posted: 16 Aug 2011, 15:19:28 UTC - in response to Message 1141000.  
Last modified: 16 Aug 2011, 15:21:45 UTC

I do not think I have heard of Warren Buffets positions as being talking points before. Fascinating.

But obviously many feel entitled to subject the masses of working population, and the rapidly vanishing middle class to subsistant wages so that a few may live excessively well.


Refer to my opening post.

What does "entitled" mean to you?
Is that what it really means?
To me, I have interpreted it as "I am entitled to this" means "I want this because I deserve it."
And, to me, that is different from simply "I want this."
What are the thoughts of our community?


Gary stated
The root cause of the riots is Madison Avenue. They have done such a fantastic job of creating demand that people who have no chance in life of owning an item now have a burning desire for it and feel entitled to have it. The result is criminality to obtain it to satisfy the false desire. Uh, is that like lying on a loan application to buy a house?

Perhaps governments should prevent children under the age of 15 from watching the telly or at least advertiser supported telly. Same for the net, a no ads net for kids. Kids are not mature enough to resist the scientifically crafted ads aimed at them. Ask any parent near XMAS about their children screaming gimme gimme gimme! They feel entitled, when they are not. They carry this through life. Life is: "The survival of the fit." Not "The survival of the entitled."


As a side-note, I found it interesting, given that when Skildude rails against "The Man" and "Big Business," Gary provides an opposing view, yet here Gary concedes there is at least one instance in which they do have enormous power over young impressionable minds.

But, specifically, I disagree with his use of "entitled." They want it. That is different from thinking they deserve it. What evidence is there that they think they deserve it?
Digging isnto this could then lead to the discussion about other ways in which entitlement is used, specifically Social Security etc. ... .

Just as there is a difference between "want" and "need," there's a difference between "want" and "deserve." Similarly, there is a difference between "submit" and "respect" (despite recent claims to the contrary, IMO).

Yes, Buffet's statement is essentially a talking point: "The rich should pay higher taxes and shoulder an equal (or greater) burden." He merely builds on that a bit, by saying, I'm one of those super-rich guys and I do believe I should be carrying more of the burden.

So, yes, drop the talking points for a while.
It' quite simple. I want to know if you think "feeling entitled" means merely that "you want something," say so. If you think "feeling entitled" means "you want something because you think you deserve it" (my interpretation), say so.
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Message 1141436 - Posted: 17 Aug 2011, 1:17:03 UTC - in response to Message 1141230.  
Last modified: 17 Aug 2011, 1:18:08 UTC

Mr Buffet is perhaps being a bit ingenuous. He is free to send any amount that he wants to the Government. He is advocating an increase on the top income bracket which will hurt many small business entrepeneurs. Mr Buffet has propotionately little Income. He pays little income tax ( in comparison to his Capital Gains Tax) since he has relatively little income.

I would like to hear him advocate raising the Capital Gains tax to 35% from it's current level of 15%. Bet he would howl then if this were to come about or be suggested by Obama.

I am not in favor of this action since I think Capital Formation should be encouraged and not confiscated by the Government; but it would put Warren Buffet's true motives into perspective.

What do you all think.
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Message 1141516 - Posted: 17 Aug 2011, 6:29:16 UTC - in response to Message 1141230.  

Mr. Buffet speaks his mind. Despite his wealth, he keeps a sense of fair play. A very rare commodity on wall street.

A talking point? I totally disagree. He is speaking his mind, not a partisan agenda.

But entitled is just that.. "I think I deserve this". Whether it is a tax break, an unemployment check, maternity leave, a bigger piece of the pie..
So entitlement is a mis-used word, implying selfishness as it is used today.

Unless we consider survival an "entitlement". Most of the country is struggling to survive. A few are struggling(with lobbyists and connections at their disposal) to snap up every resource and potential that the masses might
find some relief with.

But a view you disagree with does not make it a talking point.
Janice
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Message 1141539 - Posted: 17 Aug 2011, 9:13:42 UTC

The Oracle has become a Cartoon Character. A Bobble Head.

When he makes A Statement/Opines,of course it is News. The Experts on CNBC give his views a modicum of respect and many times disagree.

He should just cut a check for the Extra Millions and send it to The Treasury. And show us a copy if he thinks paying more is what others of his ilk should do.

It's well known he supported The Messiah during The Election and seemingly still supports The Dem/Lib views of Giving More of What We Make. No matter how Little is Made.

What He Should Do is what Many Other Super Rich Do. Have many many homes all over The World, lots of Boats, Planes, Trains and Automobiles. And Other Rich Stuff.

Why? 'Cause The Little Folk are The Ones building and producing These Toys and it keeps Them Working. You know, Jobs.

Give The Money to The Treasury and who knows what happens to it.

I am Null and Void and a Darwin Barnacle.
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