Are UFOs passing into folklore and scams?


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Profile ML1
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Message 1138798 - Posted: 11 Aug 2011, 11:11:23 UTC

An interesting British view of UFO sightings:

Ministry of Defence files on UFO sightings released

... The internal memo from a DI55 [defence intelligence] wing commander dated 5 July 1995 says the media's portrayal of DI55 as a "defender of the Earth against the alien menace" is "light years from the truth."

The file shows the officer feared that if intelligence's interest in UFOs was to be revealed it could cause "disbelief and embarrassment since few people will believe the truth that lack of funds and higher priorities have prevented any study of the thousands of reports received."

A former Ministry of Defence UFO investigator said the files reflected debate over the significance of reported UFO sightings.

Nick Pope worked at the MoD between 1991 and 1994.

He said the files were quite revealing: "The fascinating thing about these files is that they show that just as in society there's this huge debate about UFOs - is it really interesting, are we being visited by aliens - or is it all just nonsense?

"We were having the same debates in the Ministry of Defence. Some people thought it was a waste of time and money, others thought it was of extreme defence significance." ...



What I find interesting is how "UFO"s appear to follow the spread of TV around the world...

Anyone done a study on how the reporting of UFO sightings has developed around the world? Has the internet made any impact on the rise and fall of UFOs?


Myself, I'm still giggling at the crazy viral marketing from the Haiti UFOs spoof splashed on Youtube! :-)

Keep searchin',
Martin


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Message 1140153 - Posted: 13 Aug 2011, 19:07:31 UTC
Last modified: 13 Aug 2011, 19:10:17 UTC

Martin,
Ok, lets say the British MoD have a limitless budget. And lets say they do investigate these claims properly. Then what? What are they supposed to do next?

Because the end result would be UFO reports that consist of blurry pictures, poor quality videos, and eye witness reports from ordinary people with little or no science education. And lets face the facts, even with a top class science education behind you, and a degree in astrophysics, your mind can still play trick on you. And people in general are very susceptible to telling lies to get their moment of glory!

So what should the MoD do? Go on British national TV and start making statements that they have blurry pictures and poor quality videos of UFO's? Should the British prime minister start making public statements that they have evidence of ET because some fat woman in Glastonbury said she saw something flying in the sky? For God sake, their are UK defense air bases all over the UK with all kinds of aircraft doing training.

You need something solid. You need something concrete, and the public don't have it and the British government don't have it and either does any other government.

We have the internet today. So anyone who thinks they have seen something or if they have pictures or video, they can freely put that evidence on the internet for everyone to see. If something really does turn out to be concrete evidence, then word will get out very fast!

John.
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Message 1140338 - Posted: 14 Aug 2011, 7:17:31 UTC

I am really a UFO skeptic. Even though I have no doubt that intelligent aliens exist somewhere in our galaxy I have seen nothing in all of the public UFO data that will lead me to believe we have been visited by aliens or our descendants who have supposedly mastered time travel.

The way I see it we just aren't interesting enough for aliens to bother coming here. It turns out now that water isn't all that rare in space and our biology probably makes earth creatures including us inedible. So why bother coming here?
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Message 1143436 - Posted: 21 Aug 2011, 10:47:40 UTC

So why bother coming here?


Proably because as they are as nosey as we are about the neighbours.....

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Message 1152519 - Posted: 15 Sep 2011, 17:31:52 UTC - in response to Message 1143436.

So why bother coming here?


Proably because as they are as nosey as we are about the neighbours.....


That's a good one ! I really feel the same way. Maybe the human race isn't much to look at from the Alien's point of view, but I think that they might just be a tad interested in what we are doing. Do I think that there are UFO's ? Well, Yes I do. Have I ever seen one ? NO. (I'd like to though) I really think that there is a TON of life out in that universe. Some of it is way above us in space travel. Also, I think that there are planets out there that might just be starting with life. Dinosaur planets to be exact. Call me stupid, dumb, what-ever. There HAS to be life out there. Why would their just be life on this planet ? Ah well.... back to UFO hunters !!!!

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Message 1153500 - Posted: 18 Sep 2011, 8:42:49 UTC

Why does it have to be one way or the other? Medicine is real but you can find plenty of medical scams and folklore. If there were aliens who came here in ancient times why does that mean we came from them? Is it not possible they came and interacted with the people or planet here and then decided for some reason that open interaction was a bad idea? We may not have reacted to their influence as they expected or some problem like a disease may have occurred. Their leadership may have changed their policy about interaction because of something that happened on a different planet entirely. If life in the universe is prolific there may be laws limiting interaction for any number of reasons, a general respect for life being only one. If 90 out 100 UFO sightings are explained or are scams it does not mean the other 10 are or are not alien. Sighting happen because people see things they can’t identify, until we identify all of them we will not know what they all are. We may believe one thing or the another but we will not know.

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Message 1153526 - Posted: 18 Sep 2011, 9:17:33 UTC - in response to Message 1153500.
Last modified: 18 Sep 2011, 9:19:53 UTC

No advanced aliens have recently visited Earth, We would be able to hear them on their own planet. We have been looking and listening for 50 years and have found nothing.

If they came here on a 1000 year journey with a big Mother ship that housed all of the flying saucers and other craft we would have been able to detect them in orbit.

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Message 1153632 - Posted: 18 Sep 2011, 16:26:18 UTC

We have tracked objects, aparently ships, that go from 0 to over 3k mph in under a second without creating a sonic boom. Such objects were tracked both on radar and visualy. I feel confident that anyone capable of building such an object will very likely have better stealth technology than we do. National Geographic found a primitive culture that said they had been openly visited by beings from another solar system and recorded that event on a cave wall in pictures. We later found out that this primitive culture had more accurate information than we did at the time about our solar system. We recieved information that our scientific community did not have at the time but was later able to verify. To me that is very credible evidence that these people were telling the truth. If aliens are coming here, and I believe they are, we are likely to keep seeing them. There will be scams and fakes and debates but as long as we keep seeing them I don't think they will pass into folklore.

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Message 1154051 - Posted: 20 Sep 2011, 3:00:51 UTC - in response to Message 1153526.

No advanced aliens have recently visited Earth, We would be able to hear them on their own planet. We have been looking and listening for 50 years and have found nothing.

If they came here on a 1000 year journey with a big Mother ship that housed all of the flying saucers and other craft we would have been able to detect them in orbit.


What you say is true, and it makes sense... BUT... what if ther IS no mother ship ? What if the small craft that have been reported as UFO's are all they need ? Many questions, no answers. I sometimes wonder if they use space travel at all. Even at light speed, it would take a huge amount of time to travel from one solar system to another. Perhaps there is another means of traveling that we have never dreamed of ? Who knows ? I also think that our government knows a lot more that what they are telling us... to prevent a panic perhaps.... but I still think that ET has been here, and is still coming here. There are civilizations that swear that people came from the sky and helped them. Pictures were drawn, records kept, all from ancient history. I don't see how we can deny that SOMETHING happened way back then. Now look at the present. All the new things that they are coming out with. (Just look at the cell phone). For as fast as this stuff is coming out, I sure don't think that there isn't some help coming from somewhere to give us ideas on how to make these things. Once again, call me stupid and dumb, but that's just the way I feel about it. Not trying to force anyone into my way of thinking. Just running my mouth. :)

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Message 1154132 - Posted: 20 Sep 2011, 6:49:38 UTC - in response to Message 1154051.

There are civilizations that swear that people came from the sky and helped them. Pictures were drawn, records kept, all from ancient history. I don't see how we can deny that SOMETHING happened way back then. Now look at the present. All the new things that they are coming out with. (Just look at the cell phone). For as fast as this stuff is coming out, I sure don't think that there isn't some help coming from somewhere to give us ideas on how to make these things. Once again, call me stupid and dumb, but that's just the way I feel about it. Not trying to force anyone into my way of thinking. Just running my mouth. :)


If these civilisations were correct and aliens did visit our planet and land
amongst us then why are they not doing this today. Either there were no aliens in the past or that they have now become extinct. You would have thought though that had aliens landed here in the past then they would have wished to have left something behind on leaving as a permanent reminder of their visit. No alien force is guiding us on how to develop modern technology today for there's nothing magical about any of the modern day contraptions that we use.

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Message 1154144 - Posted: 20 Sep 2011, 8:39:45 UTC

True we would think they would leave something behind to be remembered. Unless of course being remembered and letting us know they are there is not what they are interested in. If they are out exploring the galaxy and searching for general knowledge but want to minimize their impact on the local ecology, including the life that considers itself advanced, then they are not likely to park on the white house lawn. There have been numerous reports of surgery and experimentation like we might do on chimps and consider humane. Anyone capable of interstellar travel may consider us little more advanced than chimps. So what would the government say? Ships are going where they want and doing what they want and there isn’t a thing we can do about it? I don’t think any government wants to admit that they are powerless or to inspire that type of confidence in them.

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Message 1154145 - Posted: 20 Sep 2011, 8:53:38 UTC - in response to Message 1154051.
Last modified: 20 Sep 2011, 8:55:16 UTC

Yes "records" were kept. Records were kept about turning water into wine, the virgin birth, walking on water and ascension into heaven, little red riding hood, Goldylocks and the three little pigs. Fiction is not fact.

Folk lore has been handed down throughout history.

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Message 1154333 - Posted: 21 Sep 2011, 3:21:35 UTC - in response to Message 1154145.

Being a minister, I am a bit offended by your statement.

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Message 1154341 - Posted: 21 Sep 2011, 3:54:51 UTC - in response to Message 1154333.
Last modified: 21 Sep 2011, 3:56:24 UTC

You have a right to be offended by his statements, but he has a right to his views. As an Atheist, I tend to agree with his views.

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Message 1154392 - Posted: 21 Sep 2011, 6:45:36 UTC - in response to Message 1154144.

True we would think they would leave something behind to be remembered. Unless of course being remembered and letting us know they are there is not what they are interested in. If they are out exploring the galaxy and searching for general knowledge but want to minimize their impact on the local ecology, including the life that considers itself advanced, then they are not likely to park on the white house lawn. There have been numerous reports of surgery and experimentation like we might do on chimps and consider humane. Anyone capable of interstellar travel may consider us little more advanced than chimps. So what would the government say? Ships are going where they want and doing what they want and there isn’t a thing we can do about it? I don’t think any government wants to admit that they are powerless or to inspire that type of confidence in them.


Why would they wish to park on the White House lawn?? Why would they choose to land only in America?? To come and supposedly land on Earth several thousand years ago, walk amongst it's inhabitants, then choose not to leave some permanent evidence for future mankind to be able to witness this event seems illogical to me.

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Message 1154560 - Posted: 21 Sep 2011, 16:51:06 UTC

I chose America as an example simply because it is what I am most familiar with. We seem to keep making the assumption that we are the most interesting thing on this planet. Interesting to each other perhaps but then consider it this way. If our scientists found a planet directly across the sun from us with all sorts of strange life including bird people in something similar to our middle ages what would interest them the most? During the middle ages we could be very superstitious and very violent, in fact we still can be. Much of our behavior is controlled by human emotion, morality and needs. I would have to expect bird people to behave somewhat differently. If they live in groups or flocks that often don’t get along very well, I for one would be concerned that my influence may have a detrimental effect on what ever natural balance they have found. The rest of the planet on the other hand is likely to hold a treasure trove of interesting DNA and chemistry just for starters. Bird people would be interesting but if they started changing their behavior because of my interaction I would be concerned, my behavior is based in being human and their behavior needs to be based in bird man. The volume of information we could find in one species, dominant or not, would be nothing compared to the rest of the planet.
Your logic is flawed. You are projecting human behavior on something that is not human. We lack enough information to predict what another species will do. We do not know what motivates them or what they have for laws. It is my opinion that they do not interact with us on a large scale because they think it is a bad idea or because they have some custom or law against it. If they were to land in Cuba, or Syria, or Iran, or the UK and start sharing knowledge with people there how long do you think it will take for either that country to gain enough advantage to defeat their enemies or their enemies to attack before they can gain a major advantage? In any case the course of human history could be drastically changed with entire cultures wiped out. When we get to the stars I hope we will be wise enough not to be the cause of any such scenarios.

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Message 1154594 - Posted: 21 Sep 2011, 17:51:48 UTC

Your logic is flawed. You are projecting human behavior on something that is not human. We lack enough information to predict what another species will do. We do not know what motivates them or what they have for laws. It is my opinion that they do not interact with us on a large scale because they think it is a bad idea or because they have some custom or law against it. If they were to land in Cuba, or Syria, or Iran, or the UK and start sharing knowledge with people there how long do you think it will take for either that country to gain enough advantage to defeat their enemies or their enemies to attack before they can gain a major advantage? In any case the course of human history could be drastically changed with entire cultures wiped out. When we get to the stars I hope we will be wise enough not to be the cause of any such scenarios.


Will, I don't see this flaw in my logic that you say you see? Aliens will be just as human as us but just more advanced technically, most probably too share much the same DNA structure as us. Who could argue against your claim that by sharing knowledge with some elements of Earthlings could unbalance this planet, I don't suppose many people had given that a thought. Why should there though be a problem for us Earthlings in knowing factually that their are aliens out there. If they are out there why do they mot tell us today, there can be no problem in knowing this fact for if they know we are here and it isn't a problem for them why should it be a problem for us knowing about them too. They don't have to interact with us for they would know it could unbalance our planet. But this would not stop them in leaving us a "calling card" once in a while. There can be no reason why they should be more able in handling the fact that they know we are here than we could handle knowing that they are their.

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Message 1154613 - Posted: 21 Sep 2011, 18:45:46 UTC

The flaw in your logic is this, do you do things according to what you believe or according to what I believe? What we believe another species should do is not relevant to what they will do. They will do things according to what they believe they should do and because we know only some of what they have done we know to little about the way they think to understand them. You believe it would not hurt to know they are out there but if they avoid such contact apparently they disagree. I have theories about why they might disagree but the opinion that they do is based on observation. Why would they be human? Their DNA may not even use the same chemicals as ours. We know that at least 1 organism on Earth uses arsenic for DNA. That is poison to us. I firmly believe if aliens opened an embassy on earth they would be considered everything from saviors to demons and everything in between. At least some religious organizations would consider them evil enemies regardless of what they do. If the country holding the embassy didn’t have enemies before they will after the embassy opens. What we can handle and what we will do does not matter. It is what they think we can handle or what they think we will do or what they think they should do that will determine what they will do. There can be no reason? Is it possible that we are not the first planet to be visited by other races? Is it possible that something went badly on another planet so they decided not to make the same mistake? To look at it from a more human perspective is it possible they consider us unclean violent savages and it would be a sin to talk to us? I hope not but I don’t rule it out.

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Message 1154634 - Posted: 21 Sep 2011, 20:01:50 UTC

To get back to topic. There are many people who believe in UFO’s and there are many who do not. The adult mind can be very rigid about such things. When confronted with evidence of UFO’s a nonbelievers mind will search for any other explanation and even discount the evidence as false. This is often not a choice made consciously be the person but rather they are the victim of the rigidity of their own mind. They are just not capable of believing. The believer on the other hand thinks it is foolish to discount the evidence and is often quick to believe without evidence. I hope the largest number of us are somewhere between the two, maintaining an open mind but not believing everything. So long as we keep seeing things we can’t identify I think UFO’s will not pass on, the believers won’t let them. On the other hand until we have proof that everyone will accept, the nonbelievers will keep the debate going. Through all of this and even if and after UFO’s are proven to be real, there will be scams. There are always scams when there is money to be made or fame to be had.

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Message 1154888 - Posted: 22 Sep 2011, 14:04:54 UTC

The flaw in your logic is this, do you do things according to what you believe or according to what I believe? What we believe another species should do is not relevant to what they will do. They will do things according to what they believe they should do and because we know only some of what they have done we know to little about the way they think to understand them.


To save me a lot of possible unnecessary writing here, Will....firstly, who are the "we" who know what they have done, Secondly, what is this "some of what they have done" thing?....I would be very interested in knowing what this could be?

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