UK Riots

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Profile GalaxyIce
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Message 1140109 - Posted: 13 Aug 2011, 16:32:40 UTC - in response to Message 1140066.  

it's hardly the fault of the Europeans.

Yes is. Let Britain make it's own laws. Let the Europeans make theirs.


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Message 1140113 - Posted: 13 Aug 2011, 16:47:21 UTC - in response to Message 1140076.  

repay their victims.

Yes, I would agree with that.


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Message 1140127 - Posted: 13 Aug 2011, 17:48:29 UTC - in response to Message 1140113.  

And apply that rule to corporations for their corporate greed, after all, 'corporations are people too'.


repay their victims.

Yes, I would agree with that.


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Message 1140136 - Posted: 13 Aug 2011, 18:19:52 UTC - in response to Message 1140109.  

it's hardly the fault of the Europeans.

Yes is. Let Britain make it's own laws. Let the Europeans make theirs.


For those unable to follow the link:

Whatever the wrongs of the European Convention on Human Rights, it is doubtful they can be blamed wholly on foreigners. For a start, the convention was in large part the work of a Scottish Tory.

Raised in the genteel environment of Morningside, David Maxwell-Fyfe was the hard-working and ambitious son of a teacher. He went south, studied law, took silk, married Rex Harrison’s glamorous sister and became, at 35, a Conservative MP. He came to international attention in 1945 as deputy chief prosecutor at the Nuremberg trials. He was the only lawyer who got the better of Hermann Goering.

[...]

Appointed to serve on the Council of Europe, he became rapporteur on the team drafting the convention on human rights. The result drew heavily upon his expertise. In 1951, the United Kingdom became the first country to ratify the convention.

[...]

He was, of course, a man of his times. His European convention existed as a contract between its governmental signatories; a European Court where individuals could appeal against their own state was established only in 1959 and Britain did not accept its jurisdiction until 1966.

I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that ...

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Message 1140241 - Posted: 13 Aug 2011, 23:32:03 UTC

Best way to deal with them is to knock down all prisons & use the land for housing. THEN, rather than sell off all our military bases for the greedy money men to make millions from, use them as military prisons - no tv & leisure time there.


Not sure that nakes economic sense. Military bases do not have to my knowlege, secure accommodation for hundreds of prisoners to be locked up in cells. That would have to be provided. There was a plan once to employ floating prison ships, off the coast of te UK, but the on shore communities strongly objected.

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Message 1140242 - Posted: 13 Aug 2011, 23:37:11 UTC

Metrolitan Police London Disorder Images; http://www.met.police.uk/disordersuspects/


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Message 1140361 - Posted: 14 Aug 2011, 10:04:05 UTC

Just wondering how much is being fraudulently spent & how many police officers it could fund.........

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Message 1140362 - Posted: 14 Aug 2011, 10:05:32 UTC - in response to Message 1140241.  

Best way to deal with them is to knock down all prisons & use the land for housing. THEN, rather than sell off all our military bases for the greedy money men to make millions from, use them as military prisons - no tv & leisure time there.


Not sure that nakes economic sense. Military bases do not have to my knowlege, secure accommodation for hundreds of prisoners to be locked up in cells. That would have to be provided. There was a plan once to employ floating prison ships, off the coast of te UK, but the on shore communities strongly objected.


The only UK prison ship closed in 2005 after 8 years as temporary measure. It was berthed at Portland in Dorset and was effectively a container tied to the dock. It needed extensive refitting to continue in this role and was deemed too costly.

Perhaps prison ships are not such a bad idea. Maybe the inmates can have a sense of being on a cruise whilst watching their TVs. Maybe the tax payers should pay for the diesel to sail them to the Caribean to enjoy the sun.

On the other hand let's not do any of that. What some of the rioters/looters are facing in loss of jobs, shame to their families and friends, disgrace, embarassment, ruined careers, possible evictions etc. is probably enough after receiving their sentence from court. At the end of the day all we can ask is that they face due process of law and due process of any situation where they have broken the law or the terms of a contract/agreement.


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Message 1140365 - Posted: 14 Aug 2011, 10:24:09 UTC - in response to Message 1140361.  

Just wondering how much is being fraudulently spent & how many police officers it could fund.........

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I think the answer is quite a lot and quite alot. It's disgusting that people, especially senior people who can more easily get away with it due to their status and are on very high salaries, do this in any organisation, private or public. They are all robbing that organisation and are quite simply thieves.

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Message 1140373 - Posted: 14 Aug 2011, 12:30:45 UTC
Last modified: 14 Aug 2011, 12:32:36 UTC

Ahoy, shipmates!

In the former Soviet Union, in Joseph Stalin’s era, I gather it happened, that when a person got convicted—at least for political motivations—, his or her whole family got into serious trouble.

Now, taking this from Al Jazeera news agency, ref. the United Kingdom, http://english.aljazeera.net/news/europe/2011/08/2011813174758183263.html:
    “Calls for those convicted to be stripped of their state welfare handouts and booted out of publicly owned housing were receiving growing popular support.

    Wandsworth Council in south London became the first local government to serve an eviction notice, on a tenant whose son has been charged. It will come into effect if he is convicted.”

If I get this correctly, a person may be convicted, and consequently one of his parents could be thrown on the street.

Was attempting to figure a suitable closing remark here, but am at loss of words.

Regards

PK

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Message 1140400 - Posted: 14 Aug 2011, 14:02:28 UTC

Hi Pasi,

In the Metropolitan Police area alone, 1125 have now been arrested and 750 already charged. If all of them and their families lose their homes, who is going to house them? Local Councils can declare them "intentionally homeless" and are only liable to provide short term emergency accommodation. After that they have to appy to Social Services.

It is right that they should be punished for their misdeeds but the after effects of that have to be dealt with as well.
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Message 1140405 - Posted: 14 Aug 2011, 14:40:22 UTC - in response to Message 1140400.  

It is right that they should be punished for their misdeeds but the after effects of that have to be dealt with as well.


While I think their upbringing is certainly to blame, punishing their parents for the offenses of their children is certainly unacceptable.
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Message 1140421 - Posted: 14 Aug 2011, 15:36:40 UTC - in response to Message 1140405.  

It is right that they should be punished for their misdeeds but the after effects of that have to be dealt with as well.


While I think their upbringing is certainly to blame, punishing their parents for the offenses of their children is certainly unacceptable.

Corruption of blood is a UK thing.
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Message 1140459 - Posted: 14 Aug 2011, 17:07:50 UTC

Philadelphia

Blame the parents
An existing curfew for children has been made even earlier, and parents whose children repeatedly ignore the order could be fined up to $500 (£307).


Deputy Police Commissioner Kevin Bethel says he is praying for Britain's police
Philadelphia will keep some recreation centres open until 22:00 at the weekends so that the children barred from the city centre will have something to do.
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Message 1140460 - Posted: 14 Aug 2011, 17:08:21 UTC

While I think their upbringing is certainly to blame, punishing their parents for the offenses of their children is certainly unacceptable.


The law as I believe it stands in the UK is that, parents are fully LEGALLY responsible for their childrens actions up until the age of 14, inside and outside the home. Before that age they also cannot be named in court for legal reasons. After 14, the parents have a diminished legal responsibilty from 14 to 16.

I am not sure that is 100% correct, but I would be happy to see any other information.
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Message 1140466 - Posted: 14 Aug 2011, 17:34:00 UTC - in response to Message 1140460.  

While I think their upbringing is certainly to blame, punishing their parents for the offenses of their children is certainly unacceptable.


The law as I believe it stands in the UK is that, parents are fully LEGALLY responsible for their childrens actions up until the age of 14, inside and outside the home. Before that age they also cannot be named in court for legal reasons. After 14, the parents have a diminished legal responsibilty from 14 to 16.

I am not sure that is 100% correct, but I would be happy to see any other information.


Parents do have protection from the law if they have an unruly child
that they are struggling to bring under control. They report their child
to the social services. If the child continues to play up the parents are
now protected from any backlash from the courts, which also means they
won't get eviction notices resulting from any actions their child may
carryout in the future. As you will have read in the media, several mothers
dragged their yobbish kids to the police station because they were involved
in the riots last week. None of these mothers need worry now about possible
council house eviction notices being served on them.
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Message 1140501 - Posted: 14 Aug 2011, 19:28:12 UTC - in response to Message 1140466.  

Not too much different from the US... kids are the legal responsibility of their parents up to the age of 17/18.

However, I don't think any family would be evicted from their home because of what their child/children did.
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Message 1140505 - Posted: 14 Aug 2011, 19:36:24 UTC

We know the drill. Mom works two jobs to get enough scratch to feed her brood and keep a roof over their heads. Dad is where? Kids come home to an empty house and raise hell and no one is there to know any better. I suppose Mom could pop home and lock the kid in a cage so it won't get into trouble.

The problem isn't the Mom. The problem is the society that puts a bunch of these Moms together in one building so the kids get together in mobs. Another solution might be for society to pay the Mom enough at her job so she only has to work during school hours and she can spend the rest at home watching over the kid. Another might be group rearing of children where Moms take turns with the kids.

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Message 1140506 - Posted: 14 Aug 2011, 19:37:50 UTC
Last modified: 14 Aug 2011, 19:42:41 UTC

At 16, children can leave home to live elsewhere with their parents permission. At 16+ they are deemed to be responsible for their own actions and can be jailed whether or not their parents agree. At 18 they are of the official age of consent, and their parents have no more legal responsibility for them. They can join the armed forces and choose to die for their country if they so wish.

The problem isn't the Mom. The problem is the society that puts a bunch of these Moms together in one building so the kids get together in mobs.


Mum doesn't help by getting involved with a useless git that disappears as soon as he realises she is pregnant. Left winger do gooders don't help by encouraging "affordable housing" which gets given to the wrong people, rather than those it was intended for.
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Message 1140511 - Posted: 14 Aug 2011, 19:48:08 UTC - in response to Message 1140501.  

Not too much different from the US... kids are the legal responsibility of their parents up to the age of 17/18.

However, I don't think any family would be evicted from their home because of what their child/children did.

It happens, private landlords are very sensitive to some crimes. Asset forfeiture laws, if the building was used in the crime, the landlord can loose it. Mostly things like running a drug lab or running a house of prostitution.

Taking a very quick read through of Section 8, it doesn't look like crime disqualifies for assistance.

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Message boards : Politics : UK Riots


 
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