UK Riots

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Profile Chris S Crowdfunding Project Donor*Special Project $75 donor
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Message 1150427 - Posted: 9 Sep 2011, 15:11:26 UTC
Last modified: 9 Sep 2011, 15:12:56 UTC

I've got a better idea John. Lets bring out a mothballed aircraft carrier, round up all the rioters, feral kids, feral parents, travellers, and corrupt MP's. Then drop the lot off in the mid atlantic.

Then we can rub our hands in glee :-)

@Bobby - Venice canals aren't deep enough ....
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Message 1150456 - Posted: 9 Sep 2011, 16:33:38 UTC

Walk the plank. How quaint. Just as effective.

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Message 1150492 - Posted: 9 Sep 2011, 18:32:52 UTC - in response to Message 1150427.  

I've got a better idea John. Lets bring out a mothballed aircraft carrier, round up all the rioters, feral kids, feral parents, travellers, and corrupt MP's. Then drop the lot off in the mid atlantic.

Then we can rub our hands in glee :-)

@Bobby - Venice canals aren't deep enough ....



..then a very sneaky twit like me in a sub...torpedoes the buggers...what a lovely sight..sorry..run out of lifebelts....see ya all tomorrow.....
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Message 1150502 - Posted: 9 Sep 2011, 18:47:31 UTC

A nice little Walter Mitty diversion, meanwhile back in the real world, we have to deal with these actual problems.
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Message 1151022 - Posted: 11 Sep 2011, 1:13:03 UTC

I've been saving some of my observations for a while. Was any of it surprising, when:

The Bankers got huge bonuses for what they did and were incompetent, using other peoples money. They still do and they still are.

The MPs got caught fiddling their accounts and most were able to 'repay' what they 'mistakenly claimed' for. They got away with theft.

The Government awards large contracts for trains, whilst forgetting the bit about 'social considerations' (ie, the effects of massive job losses in a locale) in the tendering process. They've not changed.

The education system has been so 'dumbed-down' that a two-day-old chimp could get a GCSE pass and pupils are supposed to think thats something to be proud of. They do.

The justice system favours the wealthy and in the case of footballers, the monied morons, too. They have it tough.

The populace exists, solely to pay for the grandiose plans of the 'professional' politicians, so they can look good. They still think that.

Every election, the politicians will lie, just to get your vote. They'll take you to Court for 'embellishing' your CV.

The bureaucrats frequently make hugely expensive mistakes. They will still enjoy a healthy pension, as per the MPs and you will pay for the lot.

Just that little lot, is not much of an example to set, is it?



Don't take life too seriously, as you'll never come out of it alive!
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Message 1151361 - Posted: 12 Sep 2011, 7:53:18 UTC

Iona,

I think every one if the 8 points you made is a valid one, where the position you have taken could be adequately defended. But I'm not sure how many of them could be attributed to the recent riots, where we understand that the majority of the perpetrators were under 20.

Bankers, MP's, Justice system, elections, yes they will have read about those in the papers or heard their parents moaning about it. Most won't be aware of the Bombardier contract loss, nor Civil Service pensions. As for education, they are bewildered, they spent all those years at school studying what they were asked to do, only to find that the qualifications they ended up with won't get them a job.

So they feel let down by the "system" or the "establishment" across the board, that coupled with bad parenting and poverty, leads to a seething resentment, bubbling away under the surface. Hence when mob rule hits the streets, they get carried along in the heat of the moment, and feel they are hitting back at society for the position that they find themselves in.

Most of those kids wouldn't have looted a store on their own, they joined in and did it because everyone else was doing it. Group dynamics and interaction is quite a science these days.

I agree, that those that purport to run and lead this country, need to show a positive example, which needs to come from the top down. But also the rot needs to be stopped from the bottom up as well, hence we need a two pronged approach. There does at present seem to be cross-party support for such an approach, but we shall see.

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Profile Chris S Crowdfunding Project Donor*Special Project $75 donor
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Message 1151496 - Posted: 12 Sep 2011, 18:01:32 UTC

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Message 1158805 - Posted: 4 Oct 2011, 13:16:44 UTC

Finally, a Home Secretary with balls. Now we just have to wait & see whether or not it's just soundbites at play.....

An End to the Human Rights Act?
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Message 1158815 - Posted: 4 Oct 2011, 13:57:30 UTC - in response to Message 1158805.  

Finally, a Home Secretary with balls. Now we just have to wait & see whether or not it's just soundbites at play.....

An End to the Human Rights Act?


Nice:

She told delegates: "We all know the stories about the Human Rights Act: The violent drug dealer who cannot be sent home because his daughter, for whom he pays no maintenance, lives here; the robber who cannot be removed because he has a girlfriend; the illegal immigrant who cannot be deported because, and I am not making this up, he had a pet cat."


Unfortunately for Theresa May, the last example should have read "the illegal immigrant who cannot be deported because, and I am making this up, he had a pet cat". Damn those BHL's over at The Guardian for doing some quick fact checking.

Whoopsie
I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that ...

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Message 1158995 - Posted: 5 Oct 2011, 10:15:19 UTC

Damn those BHL's over at The Guardian for doing some quick fact checking.


Yep, Potty Polly was proabably behind it! Oh dear me our very own "Catgate" !!! We are loving every minute of it. Typical rumbustious stuff at party Political Conferences! Catgate

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Message 1159046 - Posted: 5 Oct 2011, 13:21:29 UTC - in response to Message 1158995.  
Last modified: 5 Oct 2011, 13:25:25 UTC

Damn those BHL's over at The Guardian for doing some quick fact checking.


Yep, Potty Polly was proabably behind it! Oh dear me our very own "Catgate" !!! We are loving every minute of it. Typical rumbustious stuff at party Political Conferences! Catgate



Yup, but the plaintive did site this cat to support his claim against deportation. How long before someone sites that their tomatoes haven't ripened yet and his plants may become harmed if he's deported. Or I can't be deported, sites the fact that there is no one around to look after the gold fish in his gold fish bowl.
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bobby "snowflake"
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Message 1159091 - Posted: 5 Oct 2011, 15:18:33 UTC - in response to Message 1159046.  

Damn those BHL's over at The Guardian for doing some quick fact checking.


Yep, Potty Polly was proabably behind it! Oh dear me our very own "Catgate" !!! We are loving every minute of it. Typical rumbustious stuff at party Political Conferences! Catgate



Yup, but the plaintive did site this cat to support his claim against deportation. How long before someone sites that their tomatoes haven't ripened yet and his plants may become harmed if he's deported. Or I can't be deported, sites the fact that there is no one around to look after the gold fish in his gold fish bowl.


True, those BHL's at the Guardian noted that "The cat was mentioned in the appeal and judge's decision, as evidence of the man's relationship - not as a reason in itself", the BBC article linked by Chris states:

The case at the centre of the row occurred in 2008 and involved a Bolivian student who said he could show he had a proper permanent relationship with his partner and should not be deported.

The Bolivian man eventually won his case on appeal because the Home Office had ignored its own immigration rules on unmarried couples.


Which would appear to suggest the cat had little to do with it. I suspect worrying about citations of other pets or plants as providing sufficient grounds for dismissing a deportation notice is somewhat premature.

I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that ...

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Message 1159111 - Posted: 5 Oct 2011, 15:56:48 UTC - in response to Message 1159091.  
Last modified: 5 Oct 2011, 15:58:23 UTC

Which would appear to suggest the cat had little to do with it. I suspect worrying about citations of other pets or plants as providing sufficient grounds for dismissing a deportation notice is somewhat premature.


Whilst a plaintive use's this in their defense we will all make jokes of it. We are not stupid Bob, but does makes one wounder just how stupid our law is if one feels they can quote having animals as part proof of being in a stable relationship. No doubt too that the plaintive's defense council also thought it worth while throwing this cat into the ring.
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Message 1159727 - Posted: 7 Oct 2011, 11:37:56 UTC

Which would appear to suggest the cat had little to do with it. I suspect worrying about citations of other pets or plants as providing sufficient grounds for dismissing a deportation notice is somewhat premature.


Although you have a cat called Maya she is considered to be able to adapt to life abroad with her owners. Whilst your cat's material quality of life in Bolivia may not be at the same standard as in the United Kingdom, this does not give rise to the right to remain in the UK."

Devitte said the evidence about Maya the cat "reinforces my conclusion on the strength and quality of family life that appellant and his partner enjoy". He goes on to discuss the treatment of cats by the Canadian courts but draws no conclusion from it.


Catgate


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Message 1159752 - Posted: 7 Oct 2011, 13:44:29 UTC - in response to Message 1159727.  

Which would appear to suggest the cat had little to do with it. I suspect worrying about citations of other pets or plants as providing sufficient grounds for dismissing a deportation notice is somewhat premature.


Although you have a cat called Maya she is considered to be able to adapt to life abroad with her owners. Whilst your cat's material quality of life in Bolivia may not be at the same standard as in the United Kingdom, this does not give rise to the right to remain in the UK."

Devitte said the evidence about Maya the cat "reinforces my conclusion on the strength and quality of family life that appellant and his partner enjoy". He goes on to discuss the treatment of cats by the Canadian courts but draws no conclusion from it.


Catgate


But while sources close to the home secretary, Theresa May, have stressed this reference to the cat, they have not quoted the [Judge Devittie]'s conclusion that the evidence from friends, relatives and photographs of family occasions had "amply demonstrated" the quality and strength of their relationship: "The evidence shows that the appellant is well integrated into the larger family that his partner has with his siblings and parents. He attends family functions with his partner and is regarded as a member of the family."

He also rejected the Home Office's contention that they could both go and live in Bolivia, pointing out that would not be reasonable given that his partner's father was "in a condition that he was not expected to recover from" and the family, including the Bolivian student, had collectively decided to support him.


That being said, the ruling of Judge Devittie was not the reason the person was not deported:

The Home Office appealed against Devittie's decision, claiming it had placed "an inappropriate weight on the Bolivian student having to leave behind not only his partner but also his joint cat".

The appeal judge, senior immigration judge Gleeson, seems to have taken this seriously and says the Home Office claim that Devittie had made a mistake in law by applying a policy that had already been withdrawn was more significant.

When the case was heard on 1 December 2008 Gleeson dismissed the appeal, saying the immigration authorities had overlooked their own procedures for dealing with unmarried partners of a person present or settled in the UK. But even this judge couldn't resist a parting shot: "The immigration judge's determination is upheld and the cat need no longer fear having to adapt to Bolivian mice."


Theresa May was wrong to say that it was because of the cat that the person was not deported, neither Judge Devittie's ruling nor Judge Gleeson's was made solely on the basis of pet ownership, which is, I would argue, the clear implication of her original statement.
I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that ...

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Message 1159757 - Posted: 7 Oct 2011, 14:04:12 UTC
Last modified: 7 Oct 2011, 14:04:55 UTC

"The immigration judge's determination is upheld and the cat need no longer fear having to adapt to Bolivian mice."


Thank goodness else the Animal rights brigade would have been up in arms over it.

Well, you can certainly see what drove the Nazi's minds when it came to solving people issues, the ones they called the undesirables. The Nazi's were plainly mad, I just hope we don't let a Nazi brained politician to wheedle his way into power in this country, if one got in he'd have a field-day.
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Message 1159872 - Posted: 7 Oct 2011, 18:19:52 UTC

I see the Political & Media Coalition has worked its charm again. Bring up a serious issue only to have an inane comment made so that the media can blow it up out of all proportion to confuse the masses.....

....while the main issue can be ignored with nothing further being done to resolve that issue.
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Message 1159881 - Posted: 7 Oct 2011, 18:47:51 UTC

I wounder if the statement, "The more we tolerate the lower our standards become" is applicable too to days way of life?
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Message 1159885 - Posted: 7 Oct 2011, 19:01:28 UTC - in response to Message 1159881.  

I wounder if the statement, "The more we tolerate the lower our standards become" is applicable too to days way of life?


It's a new one on me, and it appears to imply intolerance leads to higher standards. There may well be circumstances where this is appropriate, though I'd think it is somewhat deficient as a universal maxim.
I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that ...

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Message 1159889 - Posted: 7 Oct 2011, 19:17:23 UTC - in response to Message 1159885.  

I wounder if the statement, "The more we tolerate the lower our standards become" is applicable too to days way of life?


It's a new one on me, and it appears to imply intolerance leads to higher standards. There may well be circumstances where this is appropriate, though I'd think it is somewhat deficient as a universal maxim.


To be intolerate to low standards should lead us in the direction of adopting higher standards.

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