UK Riots

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Message 1138189 - Posted: 10 Aug 2011, 2:22:50 UTC
Last modified: 10 Aug 2011, 2:44:10 UTC

Maybe some answers in these numbers: UK debt to GDP is 400%, USA debt to GDP is 99%, Germany debt to GDP is 142%, Chinese debt to GDP is 150% (but they ve got over 3 trillion dollars of cushion).

Plus ongoing wars of UK and America in middle east is really exhausting their budgets since 2002.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_external_debt

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_public_debt
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Message 1138196 - Posted: 10 Aug 2011, 2:36:38 UTC - in response to Message 1138189.  

Maybe some answers in these numbers: UK debt to GDP is 400%, USA debt to GDP is 98%, Chinese debt to GDP is 150% (but they ve got over 3 trillion dollars of cushion).

Plus ongoing wars of UK and America in middle east is really exhausting their budgets since 2002.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_external_debt


Try...If all financial sector intervention is included (e.g. Royal Bank of Scotland, Lloyds) , the Net debt was £2252.9 billion or 148.9% per cent. This is known as the unadjusted measure of public sector net debt.

The Public sector net borrowing PSNB (annual government borrowing) for 2010/11 was £143.2 billion or 11.7% of GDP..
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Message 1138198 - Posted: 10 Aug 2011, 2:38:05 UTC - in response to Message 1138180.  

Chris is not an Attorney Blurf.


Like I said I didn't know if I was correct but I'd heard it somewhere....still amazed he's suggesting censorship by killing twitter for 72 hours (won't happen).


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Message 1138241 - Posted: 10 Aug 2011, 4:41:16 UTC - in response to Message 1138198.  

Chris is not an Attorney Blurf.


Like I said I didn't know if I was correct but I'd heard it somewhere....still amazed he's suggesting censorship by killing twitter for 72 hours (won't happen).

Why not?
I didn't grow up with a Cell Phone, Twitter, Facebook. I don't miss them. This has been discussed here many of times. Instant communication is not a right, but a prevaledge.

Just heard a Helicoper going overhead. Most likely to a Hospital.
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Message 1138246 - Posted: 10 Aug 2011, 4:48:35 UTC - in response to Message 1138198.  

Chris is not an Attorney Blurf.


Like I said I didn't know if I was correct but I'd heard it somewhere....still amazed he's suggesting censorship by killing twitter for 72 hours (won't happen).

Mubarak didn't manage it, so I can't see it happening for Cameron.
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Message 1138253 - Posted: 10 Aug 2011, 5:07:38 UTC

Anarchists respond to the London riots - Solidarity Federation

"...
The fury of the estates is what it is, ugly and uncontrolled. But not unpredictable. Britain has hidden away its social problems for decades, corralled them with a brutal picket of armed men. Growing up in the estates often means never leaving them, unless it's in the back of a police van. In the 1980s, these same problems led to Toxteth. In the '90s, contributed to the Poll Tax riots. And now we have them again - because the problems are not only still there, they're getting worse.
...

But as revolutionaries, we cannot condone attacks on working people, on the innocent. Burning out shops with homes above them, people's transport to work, muggings and the like are an attack on our own and should be resisted as strongly as any other measure from government "austerity" politics, to price-gouging landlords, to bosses intent on stealing our labour. Tonight and for as long as it takes, people should band together to defend themselves when such violence threatens homes and communities."
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Message 1138296 - Posted: 10 Aug 2011, 9:42:50 UTC

Not too long ago, you where worried about me. Not a riot since I lived here, just plenty of other crimes.
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Message 1138297 - Posted: 10 Aug 2011, 9:48:48 UTC

The points Chris made do seem to figure in the mix, and, ultimately, the reasons (when flushed out - the real reasons) must be addressed. But, all the shop looting and property burning, to trash local communities, is not explained by social deprivation but by criminality.
It's good to be back amongst friends and colleagues



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Message 1138299 - Posted: 10 Aug 2011, 10:29:06 UTC

Was this some type of war?! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZuNLS_lwQY

Because the scale of the damage is not look like criminal.
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Message 1138459 - Posted: 10 Aug 2011, 18:14:28 UTC
Last modified: 10 Aug 2011, 18:17:33 UTC

According to Fox News their media organisations have been covering up the "flash mobs" that have been causing similar problems in the USA over the past several months. Too using Blueberries to organise event hook-ups ???.. Clearly this hasn't just been a "UK" problem!
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Message 1138496 - Posted: 10 Aug 2011, 18:56:33 UTC

What do you think was used to overthrow the government in Egypt? Why do China and Cuba so heavily regulate communications?

The root cause of the riots is Madison Avenue. They have done such a fantastic job of creating demand that people who have no chance in life of owning an item now have a burning desire for it and feel entitled to have it. The result is criminality to obtain it to satisfy the false desire. Uh, is that like lying on a loan application to buy a house?

Perhaps governments should prevent children under the age of 15 from watching the telly or at least advertiser supported telly. Same for the net, a no ads net for kids. Kids are not mature enough to resist the scientifically crafted ads aimed at them. Ask any parent near XMAS about their children screaming gimme gimme gimme! They feel entitled, when they are not. They carry this through life. Life is: "The survival of the fit." Not "The survival of the entitled."

Sigh.

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Message 1138507 - Posted: 10 Aug 2011, 19:11:51 UTC - in response to Message 1138496.  
Last modified: 10 Aug 2011, 19:12:38 UTC

Perhaps governments should prevent children under the age of 15 from watching the telly or at least advertiser supported telly. Same for the net, a no ads net for kids. Kids are not mature enough to resist the scientifically crafted ads aimed at them. Ask any parent near XMAS about their children screaming gimme gimme gimme! They feel entitled, when they are not. They carry this through life. Life is: "The survival of the fit." Not "The survival of the entitled."

Sigh.


Societies do change their morals over time. They did here in the UK during the Victorian era. Nothing to stop the media outlets including the web from being forced to become very "conservative" with their output content.
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Message 1138521 - Posted: 10 Aug 2011, 19:48:47 UTC

The notion of "Haves & Have-nots" has been around for as long as I can remember, but blaming it on "The Fury of Estates" is incorrect.

I grew up on 2 such estates, both in Hackney & on leaving school & entered employment, still lived on one. Of course things were hard, unemployment was rife(reached over 4 million while I lived there). We had railway workers, police, postal workers, hospital staff, newspaper employees as well as a fair amount of unemployed. The point being not only did we all get on well together, but we helped each other out with the little things...i.e., some unemployed had no money to get to the labour exchange so many of us drove them there.

Some of the unemployed, when they noticed we weren't around, called on us to see if we were ok & if ill, THEY did our shopping, or our laundry for us(no hi- tech gadgets those days, it was a cause of using public laundries).

So what changed? I'm neither an economist,lawyer,police officer civil servant or politician, but what I have seen in both those estates was the lack of community spirit, a lack of respect & nothing but major drug & gang problems.

I can see the youth of today saying sod it! Police corruption, politicial corruption,newspaper corruption, incompetent civil servants - with all those to contend with, what happened was inevitable & will continue to get worse...
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Message 1138574 - Posted: 10 Aug 2011, 21:03:44 UTC

Just announced here on the news....One of the looters has been caught.

He's a Teaching Assisant at a primary school.

What an excellent example for the children!
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Message 1138575 - Posted: 10 Aug 2011, 21:07:43 UTC

The fox is minding the hen house.

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Message 1138595 - Posted: 10 Aug 2011, 21:34:51 UTC - in response to Message 1138574.  

He's a Teaching Assisant at a primary school.


So hopefully not too uneducated, and probably has or had good morals.
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Message 1138596 - Posted: 10 Aug 2011, 21:35:52 UTC - in response to Message 1138575.  

The fox is minding the hen house.


And "this fox" can think himself lucky, in some countries he
would have been shot.
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Message 1138623 - Posted: 10 Aug 2011, 22:07:20 UTC
Last modified: 10 Aug 2011, 22:08:37 UTC

I suspect you will find most of the people appearing in court and being charged are not the main perpetrators. Certainly the majority of the hoodies I saw, yards from the electric shop this guy was accused of robbing, were not 31 years old. They were between 15 and 20. This guy just got caught up in the mob. Look at these:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-14462271

Some taken a hundreds yards from where I live. I think you can see the real culprits hodded and masked and the opportunists with no face cover at all.

Whilst we may put a few hundred people away I somehow doubt that the organisers will be caught.

A corner has been turned, I believe that no one will ever really feel safe on the streets of the big cities again. We have left it much to late, the fact that these youths from a lost generation could be manipulated by a criminal element means this will not go away. I cannot see how we can possibly engage this lost generation. The do not see the world the same way most people posting here do.

They feel left out on the fringes. They see no jobs and no "respect" from authority, and this is important THEY HAVE NOTHING TO LOSE. The complete sudden cessation of riots tonight makes one wonder how can what seems to be a disorganised rabble suddenly decide not to riot across the country?

I believe this is far from over.

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Message 1138629 - Posted: 10 Aug 2011, 22:15:05 UTC
Last modified: 10 Aug 2011, 22:15:32 UTC

I wonder Bernie if these louts were put off by the amount of vigilanties who
took to the streets to defend their communities.
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Message 1138643 - Posted: 10 Aug 2011, 22:44:31 UTC - in response to Message 1138629.  

I wonder Bernie if these louts were put off by the amount of vigilanties who
took to the streets to defend their communities.

Well I live in an area that was quite badly hit on Monday, yet I am totally unaware of any "vigilantes" on the streets of South Croydon. Shops and restaurants were open as normal this evening. Also there are still cities that have not been affected that would have made good targets.

I, like everyone in the UK, hope that this is now over. I need to get some sleep, and try and put into perspective all I have seen and heard in the last 2 days. These events have affected and changed me in more ways than I would have thought possible.
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