Eurozone Crisis


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Message 1136692 - Posted: 6 Aug 2011, 12:44:23 UTC

Never mind the USA problems, we've got another mess right on our own doorstep, and it's called Europe. For once in it's sad life the UK Daily Express has stood up to be counted, with an article by Stephen Pollard, it's Political Editor. Blimey, at this rate they'll be challenging the Mail!

Extracts from the article

"The people leading Europe are political and economic pygmies, a devastating mix of the corrupt, incompetent, and laughing stock."

"President of the EU Commission Jose Manual Barroso - Grade A idiot"

"President of the European Council Herman Van Rompuy -forgettable and pointless"

"George Papandreou Greece PM - spent what he didn't have in the first place"

"Jose Zapatero Spain PM - widely derided for being weak, lacking in principles, devoid of personality, and unable to take a decision"

"Silvio Berlusconi Italy PM - standing trial for procuring girls for under age sex"

"France & Germany should be leading the crisis

German Chancellor Angela Merkel - Taking a back seat
French President Nicholas Sarkozy - infatuation with Carla Bruni gives him a poor reputation"


Cracking stuff !!!

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Message 1136734 - Posted: 6 Aug 2011, 14:08:55 UTC - in response to Message 1136692.

When people think they can vote to loot the treasury and not pay the taxes to fill the treasury they are up undergraduate creek without even a frat paddle. Basing payouts upon economic peaks rather than on current tax revenues is something only a democratic electorate could be sold.



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Message 1136899 - Posted: 6 Aug 2011, 18:18:14 UTC

There will likely be a discussion in Parliament shortly about the UK withdrawing from the EU. Can't be soon enough.

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Message 1137038 - Posted: 6 Aug 2011, 23:58:03 UTC - in response to Message 1136899.

There will likely be a discussion in Parliament shortly about the UK withdrawing from the EU. Can't be soon enough.



..and pigs will fly before that happens.
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Message 1137149 - Posted: 7 Aug 2011, 9:21:50 UTC

There will be a debate, but they will likely just vote against withdrawing at the end of it. It suits the UK politically to be in the EU, as least then they have some input and veto into what goes on. The MEP's are on bigger perks than our own MP's so they won't give up without a fight. A lot of our trade is also with EU countries, which could be made more difficult outside it.

The UK press have always hammered the EU citing Wine Lakes and Butter Mountains, and billions spent bailing out the poorer countries. You never hear about small companies in Wales being given an EU rural development grant etc, because that news doesn't sell newspapers.

By getting a 100,000 name petition to ensure a parliamentary debate, is a start. It's will air issues that MP's and the general public have about remaining in the EU. At the very least it should send a message to the government that no further control from Brussels will be tolerated in the short term, and in the long term we should consider withdrawing altogether.

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Message 1137156 - Posted: 7 Aug 2011, 10:12:40 UTC

IMV, long term is not an option, the UK & Ireland needs to withdraw ASAP. As for trade being difficult, the UK managed ok before entry into the EEC(EU now).

Membership of that corrupt "Gentleman's Club" has always been a political one - and one that is now coming home to bite the ass of the politicians.

This article spells it out clear enough that even the most ignorant layman can understand......

Euro is as bad as gin in a baby's bottle
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Message 1137165 - Posted: 7 Aug 2011, 11:18:23 UTC

Ah Yes, the old bruiser Rees-Mogg!

It is not difficult to understand the problems in the Mediterranean area of the Eurozone. The countries in trouble are Greece, Spain, Italy, and Portugal, and they are all broadly simliar economies. They have very little industrial output, no mineral resouces worth speaking of, endemic weak leadership, undrinkable wine, and basically survive on tourism, and not much else. In a world recession, people cut back on holidays first, hence reduced national income.

France has it's wine industry, plus telecommunications (including communication satellites), aerospace and defense, ship building (naval and specialist ships), pharmaceuticals, construction and civil engineering, chemicals, and automobile production.

Germany excels in the production of automobiles, machinery, electrical equipment and chemicals. With the manufacture of 5.2 million vehicles in 2009, Germany was the world’s fourth largest producer and largest exporter of automobiles.

There are other factors contributing to their demise, I know personally a number of people in the UK who have sold their holiday villas in Portugal, because they themselves couldn't afford to keep them on, plus they also saw the trouble looming and got out quick. A lot of people won't deal with or go to Spain, including me, as a protest against their history of cruelty to animals.

Greece is notorious for its diabolic shambles of a hotel industry, but that contributes 25% of GDP. The maritime fleet is the largest in the world but only contributes 4.5% GDP??? Italy is a G8 country but has had more PM's and leaders than I've had hot dinners. It's main problem is the lack of infrastructure development, market reforms and research investment, and also high public deficit. Its famous for its luxury cars but that doesn't offset crap politiccal leadership, and the North/south economic divide doesn't help.

The problem facing Europe is this. If we don't bail out these 4 countries and let them go to the dogs, what will happen? Answer, you will have economic migration of people to the richer EU countries, looking for a better quality of life elsewhere. We have already seen that with Eastern Europe, where extra stress is being put on the stronger countries.


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Message 1137166 - Posted: 7 Aug 2011, 11:33:04 UTC - in response to Message 1137165.

snip
The problem facing Europe is this. If we don't bail out these 4 countries and let them go to the dogs, what will happen? Answer, you will have economic migration of people to the richer EU countries, looking for a better quality of life elsewhere. We have already seen that with Eastern Europe, where extra stress is being put on the stronger countries.



Don't think so. If those 4 go, it'll be the end of the EU & the Euro, which will then force each country that is currently in the EU to get their act together.

It'll also prevent mass migration as the right to move freely within the EU's borders will no longer be valid.

That will also allow each nation to get rid of those stupid EU laws like the Human Rights Act!

As far as I'm concerned, the quicker the better for the simple fact is this: - THERE is no strong leadership anywhere within the EU as it currently stands.
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Message 1137174 - Posted: 7 Aug 2011, 11:50:13 UTC

It'll also prevent mass migration as the right to move freely within the EU's borders will no longer be valid.


Sorry, wrong. They'll all claim Political Assylum and get away with it.

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Message 1137175 - Posted: 7 Aug 2011, 11:54:47 UTC - in response to Message 1137174.

It'll also prevent mass migration as the right to move freely within the EU's borders will no longer be valid.


Sorry, wrong. They'll all claim Political Assylum and get away with it.


Not so sure. If the EU died, it'll give this government the opportunity they've been waiting for & that is to get rid of the EU laws & also tighten up some of our own.

applying for PA won't be as easy as in the past in that case. But again, this will all be down to a strong leadership...

Don't know about Europe, but I think we need another Winnie here asap!
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Message 1137417 - Posted: 7 Aug 2011, 20:58:29 UTC

........"AND IT CAME TO PASS"........



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Message 1137573 - Posted: 8 Aug 2011, 10:57:19 UTC - in response to Message 1137417.

........"AND IT CAME TO PASS"........

Thank god





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Message 1137848 - Posted: 9 Aug 2011, 2:14:59 UTC

Let's not jump the gun here. Of course it would be nice if that actually happened, but do you really think it will?

My favourite quote is: - "Money Talks, Honesty Walks".

There is no way in hell will the money men & the corrupt politicians let that happen.

Remember the "Lisbon Treaty"? Ireland rejected it, yet the greedy pigs running the largest trough in the world known collectively as the EU, kept on at them until that NO became a YES!

THAT speaks volumes about all the leaders of Europe. Ireland used to be famous for its "Leprechauns", well I'm afraid all the citizens of Europe are now leprechauns, the little people & WE DON'T COUNT!


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Message 1138005 - Posted: 9 Aug 2011, 12:14:15 UTC - in response to Message 1137417.

If this continues European Markets Fall then maybe this.......

........"AND IT CAME TO PASS"........






Will actually come to pass.
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Message 1138059 - Posted: 9 Aug 2011, 21:52:59 UTC - in response to Message 1137848.
Last modified: 9 Aug 2011, 21:53:55 UTC

Remember the "Lisbon Treaty"? Ireland rejected it, yet the greedy pigs running the largest trough in the world known collectively as the EU, kept on at them until that NO became a YES!


The above is why people should be so wary of Politicians. Ireland voted No but because the elite in Brussels wonted their own way they rigged the treaty to make it seem that all was now in Ireland's favour. They then orchestrated another vote so to get the decision to go their way. Cameron was asked last week why are the British not been given the referendum again on Europe. His reply because they gave it a resounding "Yes" vote 30 years ago.(Forgetting of course that back then people were voting for economic unity and not political unity). So again the Politicians dig themselves holes to fall in. So the rule of the game here is quite clear, "In the game of football of the Populous V Politicians, the referees decision is final when the whistle is blown against the Populous team but when blown against the Politicians team the referees decision can be negotiable, will be negotiated and a decision made only when the Politicians are happy with it".
Clearly there is something wrong with this rule of the game. No wonder the West is in such turmoil. Nero's of the West!...put down your bows & fiddles for the West is starting to burn around your heads.

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Message 1138071 - Posted: 9 Aug 2011, 22:10:57 UTC

Jeebers, now that is a statement & a half.....

"Populous v Politicians"

Nice one Michael.
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Message 1138096 - Posted: 9 Aug 2011, 22:45:11 UTC - in response to Message 1138071.
Last modified: 9 Aug 2011, 22:53:52 UTC

Jeebers, now that is a statement & a half.....

"Populous v Politicians"

Nice one Michael.


Thanks Sirius...Ruddy Euro did Ireland no favours. Had their politicians listened to the electorate in the first place all would be relatively well with the economy
bar a bit of "turning-on of the printing presses for a short while".

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Message 1138121 - Posted: 9 Aug 2011, 23:23:52 UTC - in response to Message 1138096.

Jeebers, now that is a statement & a half.....

"Populous v Politicians"

Nice one Michael.


Thanks Sirius...Ruddy Euro did Ireland no favours. Had their politicians listened to the electorate in the first place all would be relatively well with the economy
bar a bit of "turning-on of the printing presses for a short while".



totally agree. since my mother's death & the taking of her ashes home in '97, I've popped home regularly & the economy was booming to the extent that many from Wales were going over EVERY weekend...that is until Ireland had to switch over to the Euro...since then, it's all been downhill....
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Message 1138212 - Posted: 10 Aug 2011, 3:12:53 UTC - in response to Message 1138206.

The Eurozone made a mistake by including weaker economies.
Including countries like England, Ireland, Spain, Portugal, Greece, Italy et all
was a an act of charity. These countries all have an exaggerated sense of etitlement
of the populace, while bringing little to the common sense of community and productivity that the Eurozone was meant to engender.


2 out of 10 for the above effort. The country most likely to bring the Euro to an end will be France if things get much worse. The reason being that it's own financial position is steadily getting worse, most people seem not to realise this about France. By the way, yes the UK economy was weak when it joined the Common Market but by the early 2000's it was the fourth largest economy in the world plus the second largest in the Euro zone. Currently France is the second largest economy in the Euro zone. If Scotland was to be given their full independence the UK then would become again the second largest economy in the Euro zone again...Euro standing for European in this instance.

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Message 1138321 - Posted: 10 Aug 2011, 12:07:27 UTC

I can see Russia being part of the European Union in the near future, just because it makes perfect sense.


I hardly think so. If they did they would virtually be a part of NATO.

The first NATO Secretary General, Lord Ismay, famously stated the organization's goal was "to keep the Russians out, the Americans in, and the Germans down".

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