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Message 1134579 - Posted: 31 Jul 2011, 18:38:51 UTC - in response to Message 1134566.
Last modified: 31 Jul 2011, 18:39:55 UTC

JPM, you can still crunch. The idea behind S@H was to use spare cycles. That means running in the background when your computer is on but idle. For example when you go grab lunch or a cup of coffee. If you use the program as originally envisioned then you can still crunch and only burn the electricity that your computer will burn anyway.

I don't think it works like that any more. As soon as your computer becomes idle and BOINC starts crunching, it's going to use 100% of the CPU by default... in all honesty, if you wanted to save electricity you'd be better off letting a computer go to sleep or better still shut it down.
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Message 1134595 - Posted: 31 Jul 2011, 19:16:15 UTC - in response to Message 1134579.

I think Carlos meant let it run while you are using your computer and it will just use the cycles you aren't using and yes, if you aren't using any yourself it will use all 100% while it has a chance, like while you are at lunch but didn't turn your computer off. Once you are done with your computer for the day just shut it down. BOINC will adjust and just feed you the work you can get done running that way.
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Message 1134597 - Posted: 31 Jul 2011, 19:18:25 UTC

If the "only" reason for shutting down the computer(s) is be course of the heat, I down understand why not just throttle the CPU/GPU, then the PCs wont get too hot and your still crunching.

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Message 1134600 - Posted: 31 Jul 2011, 19:21:26 UTC

Chris,

Do you know anybody that has build a rig using expansion backplanes and is crunching 7X24 ? I am interested and intrigued to say the least - looking at my RAC you will know why I just couldn't keep things cool this summer here in Dallas with 25+ days over 100F. Thinking to unloading some machines and going this expansion route. Comments most welcome.


Sorry, I don't my friend, but if I do hear of anyone, I'll let you know.
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Message 1135117 - Posted: 2 Aug 2011, 8:18:30 UTC - in response to Message 1134600.

I hope you're able to come back soon JPM.

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Message 1135137 - Posted: 2 Aug 2011, 10:07:19 UTC

If the "only" reason for shutting down the computer(s) is be course of the heat, I down understand why not just throttle the CPU/GPU, then the PCs wont get too hot and your still crunching.

Most of my CPU's are set to 80% via Boinc Manager, and all the GPU's are set to 400 or 500 Mb/s memory speed. Also I set the GPU fans to manual and up the speeds to keep the temps down as low as possible.

All my CPU's are P4 variants so don't have on-die temp measuring, only Core 2 and later have that, but 80% CPU makes very little difference to output and does help. Most ATI projects, except Collatz, don't need full memory speed, so it can be wound down as low as you can get it. It can get a bit noisy with a number of comps in a confined space, and a bit warm too, but at least the heat output is minimised.

The best way forward is to run a couple of machines with high end cards, rather than a number of machines with low end cards. You get the same RAC but less heat and smaller power bills. Just need to find the money :-)
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Message 1135175 - Posted: 2 Aug 2011, 13:03:28 UTC - in response to Message 1134579.

The idea behind S@H was to use spare cycles

I don't think it works like that any more. As soon as your computer becomes idle and BOINC starts crunching, it's going to use 100% of the CPU by default...

Isn't it true that that it's always been like that? Free cycles never meant that the electricity used when BOINC kicked in was free. Although that's what I used to think when that "free" term was used and now I know it's not so when I get my fuel bills.

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Message 1135180 - Posted: 2 Aug 2011, 13:08:39 UTC - in response to Message 1135175.
Last modified: 2 Aug 2011, 13:08:48 UTC

Actually, I think that low-power idle instructions on the CPU were not always available. Back in the 386 and 486 days, I believe free cycles were actually free--the CPU essentially ran at 100% all the time. I could be wrong on that of course.

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Message 1135183 - Posted: 2 Aug 2011, 13:15:27 UTC - in response to Message 1135180.

Actually, I think that low-power idle instructions on the CPU were not always available. Back in the 386 and 486 days, I believe free cycles were actually free--the CPU essentially ran at 100% all the time. I could be wrong on that of course.

Ah, so we were lending our wear and tear to BOINC and now wondering why it's an arm and a leg it's costing us.

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Message 1135192 - Posted: 2 Aug 2011, 13:38:44 UTC - in response to Message 1135180.

Actually, I think that low-power idle instructions on the CPU were not always available. Back in the 386 and 486 days, I believe free cycles were actually free--the CPU essentially ran at 100% all the time. I could be wrong on that of course.


That's generally true, even through the Pentium II's and Pentium III's. Of course there were always low power versions of every Intel/AMD chip (the 386SLC and 486SLC are examples), but the ability to turn off unused portions of the processor or to down-clock itself is a relatively new invention.

With the advent of power saving features, distributed computing is a harder "sell" to the average person who ends up paying a higher electric bill.

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Message 1135204 - Posted: 2 Aug 2011, 14:11:55 UTC
Last modified: 2 Aug 2011, 14:13:40 UTC

"Unused CPU cycles" meant that when you were not using your computer to run a program like a word processor or spreadsheet etc, the cpu would basically run in idle mode. This was envisaged to be in between work tasks, or at tea breaks, or lunchtimes. At that point, Boinc/Seti would kick in and use the CPU for crunching, until such time as the computer was used for another work task.

The thinking went that if the computer was powered up anyway, why not use the computing power for Boinc/Seti's benefit at appropriate times, that wouldn't interfere with the primary function of that computer.

As I've stated many times before, in many threads, the initial purpose of Seti Classic and Boinc, was to prove the viability of Distributed Computing utilising the general public. This it has done, and admirably too.

But it was never designed, scoped out, or intended, to cope with farms of dedicated computers running GPU's 24/7 like we see today. This is the 21st Century, the world has moved on, Boinc hasn't.

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Message 1135214 - Posted: 2 Aug 2011, 14:28:12 UTC - in response to Message 1134055.
Last modified: 2 Aug 2011, 14:30:22 UTC

There are laptops with dual GPUs. See here under the heading Gaming Laptops.

Like this one.
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Message 1136265 - Posted: 5 Aug 2011, 14:56:09 UTC - in response to Message 1134288.


I can empathise with others on this thread, giving up.... It does look like there's now more crunchers, than there is work units... so maybe SETI is at max capacity now and doesn't need more crunchers...???

Just a thought..

Bob


Well, that's at least what it looks like. Just now when there's months and months of shortie floodings, it's certainly true. However when the telescope is used in another way, sometime in the future, and there's a more balanced production of WU's with other AR's, I think all will settle down again.
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Message 1136303 - Posted: 5 Aug 2011, 16:47:21 UTC - in response to Message 1136265.


I can empathise with others on this thread, giving up.... It does look like there's now more crunchers, than there is work units... so maybe SETI is at max capacity now and doesn't need more crunchers...???

Just a thought..

Bob


Well, that's at least what it looks like. Just now when there's months and months of shortie floodings, it's certainly true. However when the telescope is used in another way, sometime in the future, and there's a more balanced production of WU's with other AR's, I think all will settle down again.

Sten, don't go optimistic on us now!

The Arecibo schedule starting August 27 shows the ALFA receiver being put back on the telescope September 1 and the A2010 ALFALFA project's fall observation campaign starting ~03:00 UTC September 6. When some of that data gets shipped to Berkeley, it will be mainly midrange ARs.

In terms of our demand versus data availability, with no ALFA observations between July 24 and September 6 I hope there's enough in HPSS storage to keep the flow going. If not, there may be an opportunity for the project to do some local maintenance or reorganization which is difficult while in full operation.

Although there's ample data from GBT to fulfill all demand for many months, I judge the project will want to do careful testing of modified applications before starting production crunching here.
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Message 1136674 - Posted: 6 Aug 2011, 10:37:31 UTC

What we also need is Nitpicker to start on the 11 years of data we have already got .......

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Message boards : Number crunching : Goodbye

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