Validation inconclusive with V0.38g installer

Message boards : Number crunching : Validation inconclusive with V0.38g installer

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Author	Message
perryjay Send message Joined: 20 Aug 02 Posts: 3359 Credit: 9,949,102 RAC: 12,528	Message 1119343 - Posted: 20 Jun 2011, 13:23:50 UTC
	Now that the validators are running again I thought this would be worth another mention. With the new installer you will] see many more inconclusive results. This is okay because the new app is a lot more accurate than either stock or older opt-apps. Because of this you will give a result that is probably only weakly similar to those other results. They will validate, you just have to wait for an extra wingman to report. I thought I would put this here in a new thread so we wouldn't clutter up the 0.38 problem threads since this is really not a problem. ____________ PROUD MEMBER OF Team Starfire World BOINC
	ID: 1119343 ·

Helli Volunteer tester Send message Joined: 15 Dec 99 Posts: 692 Credit: 66,879,766 RAC: 3,707	Message 1119354 - Posted: 20 Jun 2011, 13:44:44 UTC - in response to Message 1119343.
	Does that mean, if i have a result done with the stock client and my wingman has used the lunatcs app, the chance that my stock client result gets valitated are only 50% ? Helli
	ID: 1119354 ·

[seti.international] Philip J. Fry Volunteer tester Send message Joined: 6 Apr 07 Posts: 6632 Credit: 51,234,299 RAC: 17,030	Message 1119356 - Posted: 20 Jun 2011, 13:50:55 UTC - in response to Message 1119343. Last modified: 20 Jun 2011, 13:54:37 UTC
	Now that the validators are running again I thought this would be worth another mention. With the new installer you will] see many more inconclusive results. This is okay because the new app is a lot more accurate than either stock or older opt-apps. Because of this you will give a result that is probably only weakly similar to those other results. They will validate, you just have to wait for an extra wingman to report. I thought I would put this here in a new thread so we wouldn't clutter up the 0.38 problem threads since this is really not a problem. Don't mix Windows Installer V0.38 with x38g_cuda32 app.. ;-) AFAIK, only the new x38g_cuda32 app is now more accurate.. If this new CUDA app is now the wingman of the opt. CPU apps of V0.38 installer & stock CPU apps (and all other stock/opt. CUDA apps out there) it could happen that a 3rd result is needed ((and all 3 results get the Cr.) except, of course, an error happened during calculation). *- Best regards!* -** Sutaru Tsureku, team seti.international founder. - Optimize your PC for higher RAC. - SETI@home needs your help. - ____________ >Das Deutsche Cafe. The German Cafe.<
	ID: 1119356 ·

perryjay Send message Joined: 20 Aug 02 Posts: 3359 Credit: 9,949,102 RAC: 12,528	Message 1119357 - Posted: 20 Jun 2011, 13:55:17 UTC - in response to Message 1119354. Last modified: 20 Jun 2011, 13:59:21 UTC
	No Helli, it means that you will have to wait for another wingman to complete before you get credit. I should also mention this inconclusive doesn't happen on all tasks just a lot more than we were seeing before. Many do validate on the first try. Again, so long as there is no problem with your rig and you have been turning in good results, you will get your credit. It's just that the new App is giving a bit different result from the other apps. Not enough to cause it to not validate, just enough to cause it to give an inconclusive. Sorry Sutaru, it's early here and I've been thinking about this all night. I'm sure everyone will get the idea though. ____________ PROUD MEMBER OF Team Starfire World BOINC
	ID: 1119357 ·

Helli Volunteer tester Send message Joined: 15 Dec 99 Posts: 692 Credit: 66,879,766 RAC: 3,707	Message 1119360 - Posted: 20 Jun 2011, 14:08:02 UTC - in response to Message 1119357.
	No Helli, it means that you will have to wait for another wingman to complete before you get credit. ... Thanks Perry for the quick reply. If, in this example, the 2nd wingman (the 3rd Result) has also a Lunatics App, do i get credit, even the two Lunatics Results are equal and gets validated? I wanted to know if there is a chance, that you dont't get credits for your hard work, even with the Stock Client, only because two results from 3rd Party Clients gets validated... Helli
	ID: 1119360 ·

JohnDK Send message Joined: 28 May 00 Posts: 777 Credit: 21,175,745 RAC: 25,734	Message 1119363 - Posted: 20 Jun 2011, 14:15:54 UTC
	Guess it wont help the servers with the extra wingmen needed, o/c depends on how many there actually uses the new app.
	ID: 1119363 ·

Helli Volunteer tester Send message Joined: 15 Dec 99 Posts: 692 Credit: 66,879,766 RAC: 3,707	Message 1119364 - Posted: 20 Jun 2011, 14:25:32 UTC
	Yes, i don't say we will see this rare Situation often. But could this Situation happen? Helli
	ID: 1119364 ·

perryjay Send message Joined: 20 Aug 02 Posts: 3359 Credit: 9,949,102 RAC: 12,528	Message 1119366 - Posted: 20 Jun 2011, 14:42:55 UTC - in response to Message 1119364. Last modified: 20 Jun 2011, 14:44:25 UTC
	So far, on all mine that have validated with extra wingmen, all three (or four) have received credit except of course for those that would not have validated anyway. Like people running the old V12 app on Fermi cards or just plain bad results. The new app is not that far off from the others, just enough to cause another look at it. I was teamed with Jason G in a situation like you describe. It took four results before it validated but all four got credit. ____________ PROUD MEMBER OF Team Starfire World BOINC
	ID: 1119366 ·

James Sotherden Volunteer moderator Send message Joined: 16 May 99 Posts: 6075 Credit: 15,209,515 RAC: 22,593	Message 1119367 - Posted: 20 Jun 2011, 14:44:58 UTC
	Probally happen as often as you get stuck with a wingman running a V 12 ap with a fermi card, and then it gets sent to another wingman running a fermi card and v12 to. It validates. And you get squat. Until things get sorted out, It could happen. ____________
	ID: 1119367 ·

jason_gee Volunteer developer Volunteer tester Send message Joined: 24 Nov 06 Posts: 4188 Credit: 61,311,020 RAC: 33,761	Message 1119369 - Posted: 20 Jun 2011, 14:49:22 UTC - in response to Message 1119364. Last modified: 20 Jun 2011, 14:49:31 UTC
	Yes, i don't say we will see this rare Situation often. But could this Situation happen? Helli Hi Helli, While theoretically possible, I have only seen so far legacy clients 'gang-up' on the new boy in a couple of (rare) cases, resulting in no credit: - stock GPU's that get '-12's' while we process fine finding nice looking triplets. The server gets 'too many errors' and throws out the task with 'Can't validate', granting no-one credit. - Some spikes or other low level signals possibly in a noisy workunit, sometimes with -9 overflow results where the wingmen were running CPU apps. That possibility actually applies to legacy Cuda apps anyway, is actually a precision issue in the CPU apps, and usually results in all three getting credit anyway, usually (but not always) uses hardly any runtime, and is addressed in coming V7 spike & autocorrelation CPU app code. HTH, Jason ____________ "It is not the strongest of the species that survives, nor the most intelligent that survives. It is the one that is the most adaptable to change." Charles Darwin
	ID: 1119369 ·

jason_gee Volunteer developer Volunteer tester Send message Joined: 24 Nov 06 Posts: 4188 Credit: 61,311,020 RAC: 33,761	Message 1119371 - Posted: 20 Jun 2011, 14:51:51 UTC - in response to Message 1119366.
	...I was teamed with Jason G in a situation like you describe. It took four results before it validated but all four got credit. LoL, I was amused when you pointed out that my 480 got canonical too... ____________ "It is not the strongest of the species that survives, nor the most intelligent that survives. It is the one that is the most adaptable to change." Charles Darwin
	ID: 1119371 ·

perryjay Send message Joined: 20 Aug 02 Posts: 3359 Credit: 9,949,102 RAC: 12,528	Message 1119382 - Posted: 20 Jun 2011, 15:03:38 UTC - in response to Message 1119371. Last modified: 20 Jun 2011, 15:06:04 UTC
	Thought you'd like that. I guess we matched and the other two were just far enough off to get stuck with the weakly similar and you were the first in line. Maybe next time I'll get the canonical. :-) Oh, everything is still getting validated. No errors except one that is still hanging around from way back. It was a -12 that looks like everyone is going to error out on. ____________ PROUD MEMBER OF Team Starfire World BOINC
	ID: 1119382 ·

Helli Volunteer tester Send message Joined: 15 Dec 99 Posts: 692 Credit: 66,879,766 RAC: 3,707	Message 1119393 - Posted: 20 Jun 2011, 15:22:52 UTC
	Thanks guys for clarifying this situation and Jason for sharing his deep inside view. Helli
	ID: 1119393 ·

[seti.international] Philip J. Fry Volunteer tester Send message Joined: 6 Apr 07 Posts: 6632 Credit: 51,234,299 RAC: 17,030	Message 1119473 - Posted: 20 Jun 2011, 19:42:26 UTC - in response to Message 1119357. Last modified: 20 Jun 2011, 19:46:54 UTC
	Sorry Sutaru, it's early here and I've been thinking about this all night. I'm sure everyone will get the idea though. Yes, the advanced S@h user. If someone is new and hear installer V0.38g, he will know also that it's meant the installer V0.38 have the x38g_cuda32 app? This will confuse people, no? They will ask here in the forum, where I can get the installer V0.38g - although they found already the installer V0.38 DL site.. JMHO. *- Best regards!* -** Sutaru Tsureku, team seti.international founder. - Optimize your PC for higher RAC. - SETI@home needs your help. - ____________ >Das Deutsche Cafe. The German Cafe.<
	ID: 1119473 ·

perryjay Send message Joined: 20 Aug 02 Posts: 3359 Credit: 9,949,102 RAC: 12,528	Message 1119508 - Posted: 20 Jun 2011, 22:23:15 UTC
	Well, I finally got mine uploaded and reported. Still no errors but still getting a bunch of inconclusives. I figure out of a couple of hundred reported I was about half and half as to valids and to pendings. Those that went to pending had a whole bunch of inconclusives. Hope the next guys are fast. doncha just love these exact figures? I'm too lazy to try to count them all up. This new app is fast!! :-) ____________ PROUD MEMBER OF Team Starfire World BOINC
	ID: 1119508 ·

Lint trap Send message Joined: 30 May 03 Posts: 854 Credit: 20,383,133 RAC: 4,292	Message 1119512 - Posted: 20 Jun 2011, 22:49:49 UTC Last modified: 20 Jun 2011, 22:52:23 UTC
	I have 2 validate errors so far, both with the same x32f wingmate. http://setiathome.berkeley.edu/results.php?userid=108980&offset=0&show_names=0&state=4&appid= Martin /edited/ They both have disappeared! That was quick.
	ID: 1119512 ·

Tazz Send message Joined: 5 Oct 99 Posts: 114 Credit: 26,087,052 RAC: 28,691	Message 1119517 - Posted: 20 Jun 2011, 23:17:32 UTC
	Quick question, what does " Legacy setiathome_enhanced V6 mode." mean? Or does it mean anything? ____________ </Tazz>
	ID: 1119517 ·

arkayn Volunteer tester Send message Joined: 14 May 99 Posts: 3148 Credit: 41,331,429 RAC: 34,607	Message 1119528 - Posted: 20 Jun 2011, 23:47:27 UTC - in response to Message 1119517.
	Quick question, what does " Legacy setiathome_enhanced V6 mode." mean? Or does it mean anything? The new x38 version has the new v7 code that they are testing over at beta in it as well. It will work on both main and beta. ____________
	ID: 1119528 ·

jason_gee Volunteer developer Volunteer tester Send message Joined: 24 Nov 06 Posts: 4188 Credit: 61,311,020 RAC: 33,761	Message 1119530 - Posted: 20 Jun 2011, 23:49:00 UTC - in response to Message 1119517.
	Quick question, what does " Legacy setiathome_enhanced V6 mode." mean? Or does it mean anything? It means that the application detected that the task is a 'normal' seti@home enhanced mutlibeam version 6 task, rather than the upcoming V7 variety which involves extra searches using autocorrelations for looking for periodic patterns in the data. ____________ "It is not the strongest of the species that survives, nor the most intelligent that survives. It is the one that is the most adaptable to change." Charles Darwin
	ID: 1119530 ·

perryjay Send message Joined: 20 Aug 02 Posts: 3359 Credit: 9,949,102 RAC: 12,528	Message 1119531 - Posted: 20 Jun 2011, 23:49:06 UTC - in response to Message 1119512.
	Martin, there was a post on Lunatics about some validate errors. He just posted again that they had been changed to valid. Might have been the same for you. ____________ PROUD MEMBER OF Team Starfire World BOINC
	ID: 1119531 ·

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Message boards : Number crunching : Validation inconclusive with V0.38g installer