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Profile Robert Waite
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Message 1101805 - Posted: 29 Apr 2011, 19:46:25 UTC

If someone truly believes prayer does work, why do they still go to a surgeon?

If prayer really works, why are there people living under a bridge or in a cardboard box?
Why do we build hospitals?

Why the hell do we need an army? We could have just prayed for victory in WWII.



I do not fight fascists because I think I can win.
I fight them because they are fascists.
Chris Hedges

A riot is the language of the unheard. -Martin Luther King, Jr.
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Message 1101806 - Posted: 29 Apr 2011, 19:48:36 UTC

Why make light of others' beliefs Robert?


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Message 1101809 - Posted: 29 Apr 2011, 19:54:00 UTC - in response to Message 1101805.  

If someone truly believes prayer does work, why do they still go to a surgeon?

If prayer really works, why are there people living under a bridge or in a cardboard box?
Why do we build hospitals?

Why the hell do we need an army? We could have just prayed for victory in WWII.



Sorry.......please PM me.......

I did not want to make agnostics angry.

I would have prayed that JFK had not been killed, or that at very least, the truth would have been unveiled by now.


"Freedom is just Chaos, with better lighting." Alan Dean Foster

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Message 1101855 - Posted: 29 Apr 2011, 22:00:15 UTC - in response to Message 1101805.  

Maybe getting the right Surgeon is the answer to the prayer.


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Message 1101859 - Posted: 29 Apr 2011, 22:31:49 UTC

Last call.

I shall keep all your prayers and thoughts close to my heart tonight.

You are always so close anyways.

May God bless and keep you....

Good 'un, my babies.


I love you all.......meow.

Just, meow.


Goodnight.
"Freedom is just Chaos, with better lighting." Alan Dean Foster

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Message 1101898 - Posted: 30 Apr 2011, 1:12:13 UTC - in response to Message 1101806.  

Why make light of others' beliefs Robert?


Why can't he question what he doesn't understand, and phrase that question in a way that states his level of understanding?

Personally, I agree with the questions he's asking, but I already know the answers that believers give, which are not good enough for me so I don't bother asking anymore.
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Message 1101921 - Posted: 30 Apr 2011, 1:51:47 UTC - in response to Message 1101898.  

Why make light of others' beliefs Robert?


Why can't he question what he doesn't understand, and phrase that question in a way that states his level of understanding?

Personally, I agree with the questions he's asking, but I already know the answers that believers give, which are not good enough for me so I don't bother asking anymore.

Because Robert's questions are instead reflections of dogmatic beliefs he already holds. He's bought into the anti-religion propaganda, hook, line, and sinker. I, on the other hand, am a thinking agnostic.
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Message 1101946 - Posted: 30 Apr 2011, 3:12:50 UTC - in response to Message 1101805.  

What if the surgeon himself prayed before surgery? Would you look down on him?

Robert, I'm not religious at all, but I don't dump on people who are. It's up to them.

I will say this though. Religion and prayer brings people together for a common cause or unity. Same with a moment of silence in school or reciting the pledge of allegiance in the AM. The left has worked tirelessly to kill that unity in this country. So, when you get on your soap box about a common cause or unity for an agenda like "environmentalism", you've only shot yourself in the foot. You can't turn that unity on and off at will, just because a cause comes along that is important to you.

I understand why you don't like prayer. Because the religious tend to vote one way more than the other. But when it comes down to it, don't you pray also, Robert, to "The State"? Give it some thought.
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Profile Robert Waite
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Message 1102038 - Posted: 30 Apr 2011, 7:37:06 UTC

Whatever happens is supposed to be god's will.
Doesn't anyone question why god is going to change his mind because someone prays?
Isn't god supposed to know all things that are going to happen from the dawn of time?
Why is this supreme being going to change his plans for the unfolding of the universe because someone wants a different outcome?

I have no use for religion at all. Am I not permitted this opinion? There are people in here who feel free to espouse their pro-religious views.

I kept it out of the thread I wanted to post it in to avoid confrontation.

I do not fight fascists because I think I can win.
I fight them because they are fascists.
Chris Hedges

A riot is the language of the unheard. -Martin Luther King, Jr.
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Profile MOMMY: He is MAKING ME Read His Posts Thoughts and Prayers. GOoD Thoughts and GOoD Prayers. HATERWORLD Vs THOUGHTs and PRAYERs World. It Is a BATTLE ROYALE. Nobody LOVEs Me. Everybody HATEs Me. Why Don't I Go Eat Worms. Tasty Treats are Wormy Meat. Yes
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Message 1102067 - Posted: 30 Apr 2011, 10:28:35 UTC

These questions about GOD are questions Children ask. When an Adult asks them, they are asked to stir up a confrontation.

It's like asking Why would anyone be a Democrat/Liberal? There is no answer, so why ask?

iWorm 'em.
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Message 1102179 - Posted: 30 Apr 2011, 17:46:08 UTC - in response to Message 1102038.  

Whatever happens is supposed to be god's will.
Doesn't anyone question why god is going to change his mind because someone prays?
Isn't god supposed to know all things that are going to happen from the dawn of time?
Why is this supreme being going to change his plans for the unfolding of the universe because someone wants a different outcome?

I have no use for religion at all. Am I not permitted this opinion? There are people in here who feel free to espouse their pro-religious views.

I kept it out of the thread I wanted to post it in to avoid confrontation.



you put your views in it's own thread, so when people come on to this message board it's there in capital letters on the front page if you had put it in the thread where you (didn't want to cause confrontation) possibly less people would have read it. people read these message boards so you know people like murf and mark are going to read your message even if it is not in their thread.i not only don't believe in god i hate religion in all it's forms. but i don't hate anybody if they want to believe in god or religion it is their own personal belief. everybody is allowed to voice their opinion it is called free speech. the difference between mark and murfs free speech and yours is that they caused no offence to anybody (if you believe in prayer and want to help then pray for them.if not don't reply they are not asking for you to change your beliefs and pray for them).you dont believe.(just like me) but i don't for one minute begrudge them their beliefs or their want of comfort in any way they want in their times of need. your free speech was in no way constructive and did cause offence even to me a non believer.if you really didn't wan't to cause offence then why post anything at all. i know mark had a bad day yesterday and now he isn't here i think your thread tipped him a bit.

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Profile Robert Waite
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Message 1102196 - Posted: 30 Apr 2011, 19:03:05 UTC

I'm getting angrier by the day with the followers of the Skyman.
One of the factors in my anger is playing out right here.

Why do I have to show sensitivity toward pre-medieval thinking and beliefs?
If I stated my disregard for the Myan gods, would anyone give it a second thought?

While people like me are asked to hold our views to ourselves, the followers of the Skyman are forming massive voting blocks to control our political lives.
They have filled my Canadian government with rapture kooks and speaking in tongue types who seem to get away with many offenses against humanity because they claim a higher morality.
Racists and corporatists hiding under the name of the Skyman are destroying what is left of our position in this world by making Canada join in on what will soon be seen as resource wars.

My suggestion to the followers of primative belief systems is to stay out of this thread so your shallow beliefs won't be damaged or hurt.
I wanted to spout off and I have done so.

I do not fight fascists because I think I can win.
I fight them because they are fascists.
Chris Hedges

A riot is the language of the unheard. -Martin Luther King, Jr.
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Message 1102199 - Posted: 30 Apr 2011, 19:10:47 UTC

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Message 1102245 - Posted: 30 Apr 2011, 21:34:07 UTC - in response to Message 1102199.  
Last modified: 30 Apr 2011, 21:34:42 UTC

"the followers of the Skyman are forming massive voting blocks to control our political lives."

Maybe they feel the same about the latest religion.... global warming.
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Profile MOMMY: He is MAKING ME Read His Posts Thoughts and Prayers. GOoD Thoughts and GOoD Prayers. HATERWORLD Vs THOUGHTs and PRAYERs World. It Is a BATTLE ROYALE. Nobody LOVEs Me. Everybody HATEs Me. Why Don't I Go Eat Worms. Tasty Treats are Wormy Meat. Yes
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Message 1102253 - Posted: 30 Apr 2011, 21:48:04 UTC

I don't believe in GOD. I don't believe in The GOP/T or the Dem/Libs either. I agree and disagree with Ayn Rand.

If any Group seems to be trying To Control, it is The Dem/Libs more so than The GOP/T. Dem/Libs seem way more fananical than Anyone who Believes in GOD. Listen to MSNBC during the Evening/Night when they let The Anti-GOP/T anchors take over.

So, I am not one who is Hurt.

I do think your rant & raving RW is More Scary than anything you spout off about.

I would Trust a Religious Zealot before I would trust someone who continually rants & raves about The WORLD IS ENDING from RESOURCE WARS because of GOD followers.

iWorm 'em.
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Message 1102278 - Posted: 30 Apr 2011, 23:04:11 UTC - in response to Message 1102253.  



I would Trust a Religious Zealot before I would trust someone who continually rants & raves about The WORLD IS ENDING from RESOURCE WARS because of GOD followers.

iWorm 'em.


It would seem my posts have an overly strong effect on you DW.
While I may have expressed my disbelief once or twice over the past few years, this is the first time I set out to clearly state my position.

If you think that indicates a continual rant and rave, I will take a moment to ask you to reassess your thinking.
I do not fight fascists because I think I can win.
I fight them because they are fascists.
Chris Hedges

A riot is the language of the unheard. -Martin Luther King, Jr.
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Message 1102303 - Posted: 1 May 2011, 0:32:22 UTC - in response to Message 1102278.  

its best to ignore him. His view is mostly generated to irritate others by being completely contrary


In a rich man's house there is no place to spit but his face.
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Message 1102418 - Posted: 1 May 2011, 9:21:32 UTC - in response to Message 1101805.  
Last modified: 1 May 2011, 9:22:54 UTC

If someone truly believes prayer does work, why do they still go to a surgeon?


For the same reason someone who believes our health care industry in the United States sucks goes to a surgeon.

Because they need a surgeon.

The idea that prayer can fill your belly, clothe you, house you, cure your diseases, and fight your wars is something only a godless person could believe those who pray believe about prayer.

By the way -- I'm quite sure that a lot of people did pray for victory in WWII. I suppose that proves that prayer does work --- at least to the degree that your examples would illustrate that it doesn't.

If you are saying that prayer, without physical human action, should have defeated the Japanese, then I think I see your problem; you confuse prayer with telekinesis.

Prayer is "speaking to God" whereas the result you seem to require of prayer is that humans become gods, or that God responds immediately, positively, and in their favor every time a petitioner asks for something.

See God. See God jump through Robert's hoop. Good little God. Here's a plate of ambrosia. Sit God. Beg God. Good God.

What sort of god would that be? An obedient one. Like a genie!

What you don't believe in are genies.
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Message 1102476 - Posted: 1 May 2011, 16:04:37 UTC

the first ammendment to the Constitution of the United States of America.

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

various Supreme Court rulings have held that the first ammendment doesn't rule out religion, it also holds "freedom from religion".

which i think applies to Roberts reasoning.

"...or abridging the freedom of speech,..."
also supports Robert in his right to say what he thinks
without persecution.





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Message 1102484 - Posted: 1 May 2011, 16:36:15 UTC

A Spanish expression says:
"A Dios rogando y con el mazo dando" which could be translated as "Pray to God and at the same time hit the hammer/take actions--->Oración paracaidista
This is a prayer in use for Spanish paratroopers, where I served and therefore I know quite well. Never since I used it again.
My € 2 cents!

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